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so i was playing against a IG player, so he use a deployment where he hides all his veterans behind a aegis line using the quad gun against my reserves and flyers, so, in a game i get close enough with my grey hunters, they came in a dropod and they were at rapid fire range with theirs plasma gun, so there is two quaestion here
-can i choose the quad gun as a separate objetive? you know, S7 W2 Sv3+, the fourth shots destroy it, but my opponent say it was illegal and redirect the shots against his vet squad, were only one dies and save the others with his 4+ cover save, in conclusion, he blow out my allied flyer the next turn .
-this take us to the second question: the quad gun gets cover saves? ´cause the next game we had, i decide to make it roll dices (to se who was right) i win and shot the quad gun with 4 krack shoots of my long fangs, the thing dies, but, it saves all the shoots with the cover saves
so i´m very confuse about this, anyone could help.
thanks for the reading

The answers are Yes and Yes.

You may shoot at the Quad Gun separately, and in fact have to if you wish to destroy it.

It may get a cover save, as ultimately it is just a model like any other.

If the quad gun is mounted on an Aegis Line, does the Aegis Line itself give the quad gun a cover save?

 Tangent wrote:
If the quad gun is mounted on an Aegis Line, does the Aegis Line itself give the quad gun a cover save?

If it covers 25% of quad gun model, then yes.
Normal cover procedures apply.

 Tangent wrote:
If the quad gun is mounted on an Aegis Line, does the Aegis Line itself give the quad gun a cover save?

Is the gun itself 25% obscured by the wall ? Then it would get a cover save.

Best to deploy the drop pod on the other side of the wall...

Normally the Gun is 25% or more covered by the ADL from most things that shoot at it that have the same elevation.

 grendel083 wrote:
Best to deploy the drop pod on the other side of the wall...

That will work if the ADL is in a continuous line, but if it is in a rectangle then that will not work.

I guess I thought that the quad gun was built into the wall or something, not sitting behind it. Not the case?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod20006a

Not the case. Separate piece.

rigeld2 wrote:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod20006a

Not the case. Separate piece.

I think he means when you set it up? I.E. in-line with the wall. Which, while viable, is not necessary, though the gun does have to be in b2b with one of the pieces of the ADL it can be anywhere in b2b with the wall.

 Kevin949 wrote:
the gun does have to be in b2b with one of the pieces of the ADL it can be anywhere in b2b with the wall.

Rulebook, page 114, AEGIS DEFENCE LINES: Composition: 'Up to 4 long and 4 short Aegis defence line sections. Each section of the Aegis defence line must be placed in base contact with at least one other section.'

FAQ page 6: 'Q: Can you deploy the Aegis Defence Line sections in two or more groups of two or more sections apiece (this way, they will still be in base contact with at least one other section)? (p114)
A: No – the Aegis defence line sections must be deployed in an unbroken chain, though they can be connected end-to-end such as in the example shown on page 114.'

The example shown on Page 114 does not have the Gun Emplacement in base contact with the ADL. Is this rule somewhere that I missed?

One thing is the defense line which is bound to the rules of being in contact with each other piece, and another thing is the gun emplacement

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
the gun does have to be in b2b with one of the pieces of the ADL it can be anywhere in b2b with the wall.

Rulebook, page 114, AEGIS DEFENCE LINES: Composition: 'Up to 4 long and 4 short Aegis defence line sections. Each section of the Aegis defence line must be placed in base contact with at least one other section.'

FAQ page 6: 'Q: Can you deploy the Aegis Defence Line sections in two or more groups of two or more sections apiece (this way, they will still be in base contact with at least one other section)? (p114)
A: No – the Aegis defence line sections must be deployed in an unbroken chain, though they can be connected end-to-end such as in the example shown on page 114.'

The example shown on Page 114 does not have the Gun Emplacement in base contact with the ADL. Is this rule somewhere that I missed?

Yes it does, it's in B2B with the rear ADL wall. Not sure if you have a zoomable picture of that page but, though it's difficult to tell because of the angles and such, it is in b2b. You can also use the rear marines as a judge to tell.

Also note that as it is an "option" to the ADL it is counted as part of the ADL and must abide by the composition rules of it.

Best way to take down quad guns and the like, libby with divination and perfect timing with a devi squad with 4 ML's firing kraks, down a lot of damage for me on the weekend

 Kevin949 wrote:
Yes it does, it's in B2B with the rear ADL wall.

There looks like a glaring white gap between the back of the Quad Gun and the ADL.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
the gun does have to be in b2b with one of the pieces of the ADL it can be anywhere in b2b with the wall.

Rulebook, page 114, AEGIS DEFENCE LINES: Composition: 'Up to 4 long and 4 short Aegis defence line sections. Each section of the Aegis defence line must be placed in base contact with at least one other section.'

FAQ page 6: 'Q: Can you deploy the Aegis Defence Line sections in two or more groups of two or more sections apiece (this way, they will still be in base contact with at least one other section)? (p114)
A: No – the Aegis defence line sections must be deployed in an unbroken chain, though they can be connected end-to-end such as in the example shown on page 114.'

The example shown on Page 114 does not have the Gun Emplacement in base contact with the ADL. Is this rule somewhere that I missed?

Yes it does, it's in B2B with the rear ADL wall. Not sure if you have a zoomable picture of that page but, though it's difficult to tell because of the angles and such, it is in b2b. You can also use the rear marines as a judge to tell.

Also note that as it is an "option" to the ADL it is counted as part of the ADL and must abide by the composition rules of it.

But the gun emplacement isn't a defense line, the ADL is comopsed of defense lines which are on page 104, and the gun emplacement which is on pg 105. If it was considered as part of the ADL what slot does it occupy? one of the long sections or one of the short sections?

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
Yes it does, it's in B2B with the rear ADL wall.

There looks like a glaring white gap between the back of the Quad Gun and the ADL.

It's possible that the set up is something like this:

._...._
/..\_/..\........ADL
..[.].............Gun

Yay, ASCII art (kind of).

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
Yes it does, it's in B2B with the rear ADL wall.

There looks like a glaring white gap between the back of the Quad Gun and the ADL.

The Aegis line is staggered, and the back-right of the quad gun's base is in contact with the innermost staggered portion.

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
the gun does have to be in b2b with one of the pieces of the ADL it can be anywhere in b2b with the wall.

Rulebook, page 114, AEGIS DEFENCE LINES: Composition: 'Up to 4 long and 4 short Aegis defence line sections. Each section of the Aegis defence line must be placed in base contact with at least one other section.'

FAQ page 6: 'Q: Can you deploy the Aegis Defence Line sections in two or more groups of two or more sections apiece (this way, they will still be in base contact with at least one other section)? (p114)
A: No – the Aegis defence line sections must be deployed in an unbroken chain, though they can be connected end-to-end such as in the example shown on page 114.'

The example shown on Page 114 does not have the Gun Emplacement in base contact with the ADL. Is this rule somewhere that I missed?

Yes it does, it's in B2B with the rear ADL wall. Not sure if you have a zoomable picture of that page but, though it's difficult to tell because of the angles and such, it is in b2b. You can also use the rear marines as a judge to tell.

Also note that as it is an "option" to the ADL it is counted as part of the ADL and must abide by the composition rules of it.

But the gun emplacement isn't a defense line, the ADL is comopsed of defense lines which are on page 104, and the gun emplacement which is on pg 105. If it was considered as part of the ADL what slot does it occupy? one of the long sections or one of the short sections?

It doesn't occupy a slot (wall section), it's an option, or an upgrade if you like. It's still part of the whole "Aegis Defence Line" fortification choice and thus must abide by it's rules. The basic ADL is up to 4 long and 4 short sections, before any options.

So, if the quad gun gets a cover saves, and can be target separately, then i can use jaws of world wolf with a runepriest an then eliminate instantly, because it dont have a initiave valour.
But what i said is that the quad gun don´t get a cover save cause is battle debris, is like a fuel dump or ammo dump, because gives a cover of 3+ to anyone behind the gun, is like give a model behind fuel dump behind, and in base of contact, a aegis line, give a cover save of 4+ to the fuel dump to save them to explode, so if the quad gun gets a cover save behind a aegis gets a cover save, then all the debris get the same?

pd: pardon my bad english jeje

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
Yes it does, it's in B2B with the rear ADL wall.

There looks like a glaring white gap between the back of the Quad Gun and the ADL.

Indeed, you're looking at the wrong spot.

 anyeri wrote:
So, if the quad gun gets a cover saves, and can be target separately, then i can use jaws of world wolf with a runepriest an then eliminate instantly, because it dont have a initiave valour.

Theoretically? Yes. Except it is not a legal target per the wording of JotWW.

 anyeri wrote:
So, if the quad gun gets a cover saves, and can be target separately, then i can use jaws of world wolf with a runepriest an then eliminate instantly, because it dont have a initiave valour.

Jaws specifies that it forces MCs, Beasts, Infantry, Cavalry and Bikes to test. Is the gun one of those?

But what i said is that the quad gun don´t get a cover save cause is battle debris, is like a fuel dump or ammo dump, because gives a cover of 3+ to anyone behind the gun, is like give a model behind fuel dump behind, and in base of contact, a aegis line, give a cover save of 4+ to the fuel dump to save them to explode, so if the quad gun gets a cover save behind a aegis gets a cover save, then all the debris get the same?

Do you have anything denying the cover save? No? Then it gets one.

rigeld2 wrote:

 anyeri wrote:
So, if the quad gun gets a cover saves, and can be target separately, then i can use jaws of world wolf with a runepriest an then eliminate instantly, because it dont have a initiave valour.

Jaws specifies that it forces MCs, Beasts, Infantry, Cavalry and Bikes to test. Is the gun one of those?

But what i said is that the quad gun don´t get a cover save cause is battle debris, is like a fuel dump or ammo dump, because gives a cover of 3+ to anyone behind the gun, is like give a model behind fuel dump behind, and in base of contact, a aegis line, give a cover save of 4+ to the fuel dump to save them to explode, so if the quad gun gets a cover save behind a aegis gets a cover save, then all the debris get the same?

Do you have anything denying the cover save? No? Then it gets one.

Is the gun itself 25% obscured by the wall ? Then it would get a cover save.

this, it can´t be, because it is stated that a "model" gets cover save from a barricade, ammo dump, aegis etc..., but at the begining of the battle debris (pag.104) section it said that the battle debris IS difficult terrain (not treated as), so a quad gun it is difficult terrain that can be shot or attacked, but it is not a "model" it is terrain, so, only models or vehicles gets cover saves, not the terrain itself

 anyeri wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 anyeri wrote:
So, if the quad gun gets a cover saves, and can be target separately, then i can use jaws of world wolf with a runepriest an then eliminate instantly, because it dont have a initiave valour.

Jaws specifies that it forces MCs, Beasts, Infantry, Cavalry and Bikes to test. Is the gun one of those?

But what i said is that the quad gun don´t get a cover save cause is battle debris, is like a fuel dump or ammo dump, because gives a cover of 3+ to anyone behind the gun, is like give a model behind fuel dump behind, and in base of contact, a aegis line, give a cover save of 4+ to the fuel dump to save them to explode, so if the quad gun gets a cover save behind a aegis gets a cover save, then all the debris get the same?

Do you have anything denying the cover save? No? Then it gets one.

Is the gun itself 25% obscured by the wall ? Then it would get a cover save.

this, it can´t be, because it is stated that a "model" gets cover save from a barricade, ammo dump, aegis etc..., but at the begining of the battle debris (pag.104) section it said that the battle debris IS difficult terrain (not treated as), so a quad gun it is difficult terrain that can be shot or attacked, but it is not a "model" it is terrain, so, only models or vehicles gets cover saves, not the terrain itself

Reread the rule that calls it terrain, it makes no mention of the quad gun just the defense lines.

 Macok wrote:

 Tangent wrote:
If the quad gun is mounted on an Aegis Line, does the Aegis Line itself give the quad gun a cover save?

If it covers 25% of quad gun model, then yes.
Normal cover procedures apply.

it is not a "model" or treated as a model, it is stated that is difficult terrain that can be shot or attack in cc (pag104,105) but it is not a model afterall

 anyeri wrote:

 Macok wrote:

 Tangent wrote:
If the quad gun is mounted on an Aegis Line, does the Aegis Line itself give the quad gun a cover save?

If it covers 25% of quad gun model, then yes.
Normal cover procedures apply.

it is not a "model" or treated as a model, it is stated that is difficult terrain that can be shot or attack in cc (pag104,105) but it is not a model afterall

Nope sorry, that's the defence line.
the quad gun is a gun emplacement, you'll find rules for it on pg 105.

Show me where they call a gun emplacement terrain, having trouble finding it.

 anyeri wrote:

 Macok wrote:

 Tangent wrote:
If the quad gun is mounted on an Aegis Line, does the Aegis Line itself give the quad gun a cover save?

If it covers 25% of quad gun model, then yes.
Normal cover procedures apply.

it is not a "model" or treated as a model, it is stated that is difficult terrain that can be shot or attack in cc (pag104,105) but it is not a model afterall

See above. Only the defense lines are mentioned, which are battlefield debris.

The Quad Gun is an emplacement. I don't think there are any rules stating that gun emplacements are terrain that can be shot or attacked.

I'm not 100% sure, but the fact that it has a statline seems to help sway my opinion that it is indeed a model.

Pg. 2 states that there are 9 different Characteristics that describe the various attributes of the different models...The emplacement happens to have some of these characteristics.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 anyeri wrote:

 Macok wrote:

 Tangent wrote:
If the quad gun is mounted on an Aegis Line, does the Aegis Line itself give the quad gun a cover save?

If it covers 25% of quad gun model, then yes.
Normal cover procedures apply.

it is not a "model" or treated as a model, it is stated that is difficult terrain that can be shot or attack in cc (pag104,105) but it is not a model afterall

Nope sorry, that's the defence line.
the quad gun is a gun emplacement, you'll find rules for it on pg 105.

Show me where they call a gun emplacement terrain, having trouble finding it.

Gun Emplacements are Battlefield Debris (pg 104-105), correct?
Battlefield Debris is Difficult Terrain (page 104), correct?
Ergo Gun Emplacements are Terrain.

Happyjew wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 anyeri wrote:

 Macok wrote:

 Tangent wrote:
If the quad gun is mounted on an Aegis Line, does the Aegis Line itself give the quad gun a cover save?

If it covers 25% of quad gun model, then yes.
Normal cover procedures apply.

it is not a "model" or treated as a model, it is stated that is difficult terrain that can be shot or attack in cc (pag104,105) but it is not a model afterall

Nope sorry, that's the defence line.
the quad gun is a gun emplacement, you'll find rules for it on pg 105.

Show me where they call a gun emplacement terrain, having trouble finding it.

Gun Emplacements are Battlefield Debris (pg 104-105), correct?
Battlefield Debris is Difficult Terrain (page 104), correct?
Ergo Gun Emplacements are Terrain.

Where does it say anything about a gun emplacement being battlefield debris? It says that defense lines are battlefield debris.

Gun emplacements are gun emplacements (pg. 105) where it clearly states it's a model. "The type of weapon on the gun emplacement (in this case a Quad Gun)
depends on the model that you're using to represent it".

Pg. 2 also defines models as I pointed out above (it has characteristics, which is a trait that models have).