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I will be attending the January Throne of Skulls with my Daemon army and want to include Traitor Guard as an allied detachment. I want to use the Dark Vengeance cultists as my Traitor Guard. Autogun cultists for standard Guardsmen and autopistol/CCW cultists for sergeants. I'll use a few FW renegade militia kits for veterans and to help convert some heavy weapon teams, but otherwise want to keep this to a minimum to save money.

Here's what the Throne Of Skulls rule pack says about counts-as: "A 'proxy miniature' is a model that is standing in for something else and has not been changed in any way. Examples include using plastic Cadian Shock Troops as Stormtroopers, plastic Tyranid Raveners as Fiends of Slaanesh or plastic Moria Goblins as Gundabad Blackshields. We do not allow any proxy miniatures at our events. If Games Workshop produces a model for a unit entry, we expect you to use the correct model, for sake of clarity to your opponents."

Does anyone know how strict Throne Of Skulls is? Technically GW doesn't make Traitor Guard models, just Renegade Militia, Cadian, Catachians, etc. But I will be using the Imperial Guard codex for my Traitor Guard so I can include a single Vendetta (rather than the CMS codex and using cultists directly). So rules-wise I'm just playing Guard and there are models available for them. Everything will be WYSIWYG (except for perhaps armour & camo-cloaks and I can fluff something up for that - mutated thicked skin, power of the warp shifting reality, etc, and will do so in the notes along with my army list).

I suppose I can get round the rules by making some small conversion in each and every model - head swaps, weapon changes, etc, but it's a pain to do this for everything. I only want to do this where it's necessary for WYSIWYG or to make characters stand-out a bit more.

I can't see anyone complaining about this for normal games, but what about tournaments and in particular the Throne Of Skulls?

I don't see why they can't be seen as Traitor Guardsmen, doesn't it mention in the codex about cultists being composed of people like guardsmen?

It mentions clarity, but you'd really have to be blind to not be able to tell the difference between some demons and cultists.

Anyone who actually complains about that wouldn't even be worth playing in the first place. Tournament setting be damned.

They're official GW models that are really similar, it would be like using Grey Hunters models in a regular marine army

Thanks. I've emailed the tournament organisers just in case, but hopefully it will be OK. Wouldn't bother me in the slightest as long as it was obvious what was what, but I know some people can be picky. I can possibly see a problem using allied Traitor Guard with CSM, but if I'm going to go to the trouble of allying in Guard I wouldn't waste points on cultists, unless it was for plague zombies. There's a thought blob Guard and blob Plague Zombies - could be fun.

Check out apocolypticon. Every year they pit all the armies against eachother. 3000pts plus. The traitor guard armies always have zombies, and horde up like mo fos

Just heard back from the TOs. Not problems apparently, as long as I make a crib sheet so my opponent knows what's what, it's all OK. They suggested adding photos for unusual models (e.g. using a FW Enforcer model as a Traitor Commissar), but it's not mandatory, though it does sound like a good idea.

I think if I ever use Guard with CSMs, I'll need to make sure I get some more FW renegade militia to distinguish them from cultists if I want to use cultists & Guard in the same army. I can see a case for CCW/pistol cultists or plague zombies running with Traitor Guard, but I think standard blob guard are flat-out better than autogun cultists.

Yeah, the cultists are great for making a traitor guard, that's what i'm planning to do as well. Using the commissar champ as a commissar lord, 8 autogun cultists as veterans (put 2 plasmas in there) and now you are free to take any tank/flyer from the IG codex, hell I'm even thinking of pushing it a lil bit over and use the other cultist champ (the one with the claw) as a primarys psyker with force axe (weaken resolve + telekinesis primaris on a chaos sorc = awesomeness)

Well the fact that they use autoguns means that they wouldn't be WYSIWYG. IMO traitor guard are better done converting IG troops.

 BluntmanDC wrote:
Well the fact that they use autoguns means that they wouldn't be WYSIWYG. IMO traitor guard are better done converting IG troops.

how are autoguns tangibly different from lasguns?

 Exergy wrote:

 BluntmanDC wrote:
Well the fact that they use autoguns means that they wouldn't be WYSIWYG. IMO traitor guard are better done converting IG troops.

how are autoguns tangibly different from lasguns?

They have the exact same weapon profile, and Guard players convert their guardsmen to have autoguns all the time. I would have no problem with it. Just make things reasonably clear as to what they are and you should be fine I would think.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 BluntmanDC wrote:
Well the fact that they use autoguns means that they wouldn't be WYSIWYG. IMO traitor guard are better done converting IG troops.

how are autoguns tangibly different from lasguns?

They have the exact same weapon profile, and Guard players convert their guardsmen to have autoguns all the time. I would have no problem with it. Just make things reasonably clear as to what they are and you should be fine I would think.

Exactly, the only problem I would have if character models/units show up in the list without prior knowledge. Like if you're using a cultist as Creed.

I think if you do a decent conversion with all the right wargear, give him a different name & a short backstory and use counts-as for the named character you want, I can't see anybody having a real problem. Even the tournament rules would allow this provided you make it clear to your opponent before the game starts.

Anyone have any ideas what to use as a traitor Master of The Fleet and/or Astropath? Even with some conversion, the existing Master of The Fleet models really aren't appropriate for Traitor Guard.

if you're using forgeworld why not the renegade rogue psykers or apostates of nurgle?

One of the sorcerors from the chaos fantasy range may also be suitable.

I would say that while IG to cultists works well, the other way around is a bit tricky. This is because IG blobs have a very complex makeup, with a lot of character that a skilled opponent needs to know about. And given how varied cultists are ,you cant really say, hey the commissar is that guy, and expect the opponent to remember it.

As such, I would propably suggest if you do decide to go with it, use original IG models for commissars etc.

That being said, the models themselves would be perfect for traitor IGs, fluffwise. Hell, some of them clearly ARE traitor IGs. For example I think their champion has a commissar jacket on.

What is the conscripts unit called again? Penal Legion?

That would be an interesting use for them!