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2K Hive Fleet Pandora (Tyranids) vs 2200 Nurgle Space Marines (Completed)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Does the new Chaos Space Marines have what it takes to beat my Nids?
Yes. Zombies will tie up the big guys and helldrakes will kill the little ones.
Draw. Both armies are good at tarpitting.
No. My tyranids are just too hardcore.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Had my very first fight against the new Chaos Space Marines. My opponent today was playing more of a fluffy Chaos Space Marine Nurgle list so I gave him an extra 200-pts to make it a more fair fight. I brought a slightly tweaked version of my tyranid list found here. I've played against my opponent, Devin, a few times before. He is a decent player and have given me some good fights before, though he has yet to beat me. In any case, we are both relatively new with our armies under 6th Edition, though we are both veterans of the game.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


2000 Tyranids vs 2200 Chaos Space Marines


2K Tyranids



Swarmlord (Warlord)
Tyrant Guard - Lash Whips
Flyrant - 2x TL-Devourers, Old Adversary

3x Hive Guards
3x Hive Guards
2x Zoanthropes

Tervigon - Catalyst, Cluster Spines, Toxin Sacs, Crushing Claws
10x Termagants
Tervigon - Catalyst, Cluster Spines, Toxin Sacs, Crushing Claws
10x Termagants

20x Gargoyles - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

3x Biovores
3x Biovores


2200 Chaos Space Marines



Daemon Prince of Khorne - 3+, Wings, Axe of Blind Fury (Warlord)
Typhus

2x Multilators - Mark of Nurgle

7x Plague Marines - 2x Meltas, Sergeant w/Combi-melta, Meltabombs + Power Fist, Rhino
7x Plague Marines - 2x Plasmas, Sergeant w/Combi-plasma, Meltabombs + Power Fist, Rhino
35x Zombie Cultists
10x Zombie Cultists

Helldrake - Baleflamer
Helldrake - Baleflamer
Maulerfiend

3x Obliterators - Mark of Nurgle
Vindicator


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: The Scouring


Deployment: Hammer & Anvil


Initiative: Chaos (Tyranids win but force Chaos to go first)


Map of terrain:



-------------------------------------------------------------------


PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Tyranids:
Besides the 2 helldrakes, I don't really see anything in my opponent's list that really worries me too much. IMO he doesn't have enough special weapons to take down all my big guys. The oblits could conceivably do about 2W each turn to my TMC's (Tyranid monstrous creatures), but it's too bad that they can't use the same gun 2 turns in a row. I just need to make sure I stay out of their twin-linked plasma double-tap range. The plasma plague marines could hurt, but in order to fire at full capacity, they would need to disembark from their vehicle and risk being exposed. In any case, with Iron Arm and Endurance, I can mitigate the damage from their special weapons. Honestly, I just don't think he has the offense to really hurt me too much.

Chaos has 4 troops, 3 of which are highly resilient. I've got a minimum of 6 troops and very tough monstrous creatures that can either wipe out or tarpit his troops. I really don't see him beating me on objectives unless he gets lucky and kill off my tervigons early. His shooting is only so-so. With the exception of his 2 HQ's, his units definitely won't out-assault mine. He's got no answer for the Swarmlord in combat and he's not going to have much to stop my psychic powers. All in all, barring some strange dice, I really don't see my opponent being able to take this game from me. I'd say he only has a 33% of winning.

However, there are 2 units that do concern me - his helldrakes and Khorne DP (Daemon Prince). If his DP can get into my backfield and away from my Swarmlord, then he can do a number on my tervigons with his daemonic artefact. Thus, I need to take him down fast. I also don't really have an answer for his 2 helldrakes. With the exception of my flyrant, my shooting isn't very effective at taking down flyers. If he somehow manages to take out my flyrant early, then his 2 helldrakes are going to have free reign over my little guys. And in the mission with 6 objectives, I need my scoring gants to stay alive. If I can't take care of these 3 units, then my opponent has a chance to win this. Otherwise, he's going to have to rely on me rolling crappy dice.


Chaos Space Marines:
For a fluffy list, Devin's Nurgle marines isn't actually all that bad. His Khorne DP doesn't really fit, but I suspect that he is there because my opponent had an extra 200-pts to play around with. I think that if he were to drop the Mutilators and some other stuff (maybe the Khorne DP) for another unit of Nurgle oblits and perhaps 1 more unit of plaguemarines, his army would be stronger. But I can understand it if he's experimenting with new units. The DP, however, does give him some mobility and another offensive threat. It's just that he is so much more expensive than the older CSM Daemon Princes. Oh well, as we tyranids players say, you've just been carnifexed. (For those who don't understand the reference, our carnifexes jumped from 85-pts base in the previous codex to 160-pts base currently).

The marines have got to watch out for my flyrant. My flyrant will cause trouble to no end and is my best chance at taking down his flyers and DP. It's also my only highly-mobile unit. He's also got to deal with my tervigons quickly. In an objectives-scenario, they may perhaps be my most dangerous units. Finally, he really doesn't have an answer for the Swarmlord, other than to shoot him down with special weapons. That's also probably going to be easier said than done due to his lack of special weapons.

What my opponent does have going for him...and I think this will be the key to a Chaos victory....are those zombie cultists. If he plays them properly, then they may perhaps tie up a lot of my bugs, thus allowing his shooting to focus on and take out my units one at a time. I really like these units (the zombie cultists) and would run 2x35 of them if I were playing Chaos. FNP should give them some protection against my biovore shooting. He just needs to watch out for my psychic tricks (like Enfeeble to reduce his cultists to T2, thus negating his FNP).

Overall, I think this will be a challenging battle for my opponent.


--------------------------------------------------------------

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/10/28 05:04:02



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Made in nz
Thrall Wizard of Tzeentch




I'm going to give this one to Papa nurgle, though that said the mutilators and maulerfeinds are a bit of a mystery, more shoot unless would be better, I think. It's going to be close, mainly because of the extra 200 points to chaos though!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/27 09:00:10


 
   
Made in us
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






Tyranids will dominate this one. The Heldrakes have no good targets IMO, the gaunts are expendable and cheap. The biovores will make short work of the zombies, when I first read the title I assumed Epi would be in, I feel he really is key to making Nurgle competitive. Should be an great game though, I just think the Nids have more tools.

   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






Yeah, this seems to favor the bugs. The Maulerfiend will get shredded if it comes near... But the Heldrakes will be trouble I believe. They have targets, in the form of Vector Stikes... Best use the Flyrant and take them down.


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Deployment:

Spoiler:

These are my psychic powers, all from the Biomancy table.

Swarmlord: Iron Arm, Enfeeble, Endurance, Hemorrhage
Flyrant: Warp Speed, Hemorrhage
Zoanthrope #1: Iron Arm, Endurance
Zoanthrope #2: Enfeeble, Hemorrhage
Tervigon #1: Warp Speed, Enfeeble
Tervigon #2: Warp Speed, Hemorrhage


Map of the terrain.



The 6 objectives.


Chaos deployment on the left.


And on the right.


Hive Fleet Pandora deployment to my right. I make use of the central terrain to hide my flyrant and Swarmy from his obliterators.


And to my left. I leave 1 unit of 10 termagants in reserves.

Tyranids opt not to attempt to steal the initiative.




--------------------------------------------------------------


Chaos Space Marines 1

Spoiler:


Chaos advance. Khorne DP zooms 24".

Oblits fail to shoot dow my zoans.


Overall, my opponent only manages to kill 1 biovore from a vindicator scatter and 1 gargoyle with his shooting.




Tyranids 1

Spoiler:

I manage to cast all my powers successfully, including 1 Enfeeble on his DP. Left tervigon spawns 10 gants. Tyranids advance and flyrant swoops.


More tyranid movement.


It takes my flyrant, termagants and gargoyles to shoot down his Warlord. Flyrant grounds him so that gargoyles and termagants have an easier time to shoot down the T4 DP. I get First Blood.

Hive guard shooting - before and afterwards:



The hive guards also strip off 1 Hull Point from a rhino.


I then focus all 6 biovores on his large zombie unit....only to kill a total of 3 zombies! Part of it was because I forgot about night-fight and targeted a model more than 36" away from 1 unit of biovores. Part of it was because he was making his FNP saves like marines making their power armor saves.


My tervigon (with Warp Speed on) then makes his charge against the maulerfiend....


....and smash it into a smothering crater.




Chaos Space Marines 2

Spoiler:

Both of his helldrakes come in.

Typhus casts one of his power against my tervigon but it gets denied.


Chaos advance. Typhus splits off from the mutilators. Rhino tank-shocks through my gargoyles.


He focuses 12 assaut cannon shots from the oblits, his rhino and the plasma plague marines at my flyrant. He gets something like 5-6 hits....but failsto ground me and only manages to cause 1W to the flyrant.


Both his helldrake and his melta-plagues focus on my hive guards, killing 1 and putting 1W on another only.


Zombies make their 7" charge against my termagants. Gants win that combat 2-1.


Typhus and mutilators, with nothing else better to do, assault the gargoyles.


Gargoyles do manage to put 1W on a mutilator but I do lose 10 gargoyles to his assault.




Tyranids 2

Spoiler:

Overview of the bottom of Turn 2.

Every turn, I attempt to cast my psychic powers.


Termagants come in and run towards my objective.


Tyranid movement.


Both tervigons spawn gants. Left tervie runs dry in the process.


TMC's get ready for assault.


Flyrant goes after the helldrake, opting not to vector strike.

Flyrant shooting - before and afterwards:




Hive guards wreck a rhino. Biovores kill off 2 plague marines.


Charge, little ones!


Tervigon smashes to ignore FNP. Tyranids win this combat 7-5.


Both Swarmy and my tervigon assault the plague marines, wipe them out and then consolidate.


Finally, Typhus and the mutilators wipe out my gargoyles. He does lose 1 mutilator in te process.




Chaos Space Marines 3

Spoiler:

Overview of the top of Turn 3


Helldrake zooms at cruising speed.


He's got nothing to lose. Both Typhus and his mutilator goes after the 2 tervigons.


Oblits shoot down 1 zoan.


Melta-plagues wipe out the hive guards (they each already had 1W from previous shooting).


Helldrake tries to break my termagants who are out of synapse. It kills 4 with its baleflamer, however, I pass morale. Then 1 more gant dies to Soul Blaze.


Typhus assaults my wounded tervigon.


He force weapons the tervie to death. At the same time, my tervie squishes the life out of Typhus with a smash attack.


Finally, the mutilator charges my tervigon. Needless to say, he doesn't survive, though he does do 2W to my tervie.




Tyranids 3

Spoiler:

Tyranid movement.


Flyrant swoops.


Now you see him....


....now you don't, courtesy of my flyrant.


Hive guards wreck his rhino. Biovores then kill 2 plague marines.


Tervigon-termagant-zombie battle rages on until the end of the game. BTW, zombies get Enfeebled and lose 4 in combat.




Chaos Space Marines 4

Spoiler:

Overview of the top of Turn 4. This may be the last game turn a my opponent doesn't have much left.


Plague marines get on top of the wrecked rhino for protection. They can either shoot at my swooping flyrant, hitting him on 6's, or shoot at my T9 Swarmlord (due to Iron Arm) with Endurance. Hmmmm....




Tyranids 4

Spoiler:

I get ready to finish the game.


Biovore and flyrant shooting wipes out the zombie cultists.


The other zombies are almost all gone.


Finally, Swarmy kills off the power fist sergeant in a challenge.


--------------------------------------------------------------


We call the game at this point. My opponent only has a healthy squad of obliterators, a few zombies (should be dead next turn) locked in combat with my tervigon and gants and 3 plaguemarines (should be dead next turn) locked in combat against the Swarmlord.




I've got 3 objectives to his none.


I've also got Linebreaker (my flyrant is straddling his deployment zone), First Blood and Warlord.





Crushing Victory to Hive Fleet Pandora!!!






Chaos Space Marines 5



Tyranids 5


This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/10/28 05:01:53



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Made in au
Sword-Wielding Bloodletter of Khorne




Dont think deamon prince can be warlord as he is ld9 and typhus is ld10? dont have dex on me atm to confirm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Beautiful armies

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/28 01:46:24


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA




Game completed.



Ithani wrote:
Dont think deamon prince can be warlord as he is ld9 and typhus is ld10? dont have dex on me atm to confirm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Beautiful armies

Thanks!

You are right. We both missed that one.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nemesor wrote:
I'm going to give this one to Papa nurgle, though that said the mutilators and maulerfeinds are a bit of a mystery, more shoot unless would be better, I think. It's going to be close, mainly because of the extra 200 points to chaos though!

Yeah, I would have swapped both of those out. Though to be fair, he was just trying stuff out.


 Red Corsair wrote:
Tyranids will dominate this one. The Heldrakes have no good targets IMO, the gaunts are expendable and cheap. The biovores will make short work of the zombies, when I first read the title I assumed Epi would be in, I feel he really is key to making Nurgle competitive. Should be an great game though, I just think the Nids have more tools.

Yeah, Epidemius would definitely have made this army better. Just imagine after wiping out my 20 gargoyles....

That is the CSM army that I would run if I were to play CSM - an Epidemius-Typhus list.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/28 05:08:29



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Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in be
Power-Hungry Cultist of Tzeentch





Cool batlle report , i love the look of his maulerfiend



You mean the Arsestronomican? -Avatar 720 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Thanks! He used a lot of green stuff to make his maulerfiend more nurgly.



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Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Sarasota, FL

The psychic choir Nids are crazy buffed by all that Biomancy... that is terrifying! You just took that army apart turn by turn. Love the looks of both armies, those Heldrakes should have gone for your Flyrant but probably could not have got him anyway with all the buffs it had.

7K Points of Black Legion and Daemons
5K Points of Grey Knights and Red Hunters  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Yeah, monstrous creatures with Biomancy sure are a scary thing. And then you've got zoanthropes now acting as force multipliers to make the army even better, throwing out Enfeebles and Endurances all over the place. The new psychic powers are awesome and nids are one of the few armies that really take advantage of them.

Helldrakes should have, but couldn't get to my flyrant. There was just too many bodies around it for the flyers to vector strike. Then next turn, my flyrant was behind them and safe from their vector strikes (and shooting them down).



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






Very well played game, I love how you systematically eliminated his threats. Only two real questions on your list:

1. How do you feel about the Swarmlord compared to an OA Dakka Tyrant with shell? By switching one for the other, you could basically get an extra Pychic power on a Tervigon.

2. I would get the third power on the Tervis. 2 looks to be enough in this game, but too often I've ended up with something like Hemohrrage and Life Leech... against shooting armies having an extra Toughness boost really helps.


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

 jifel wrote:
Very well played game, I love how you systematically eliminated his threats. Only two real questions on your list:

1. How do you feel about the Swarmlord compared to an OA Dakka Tyrant with shell? By switching one for the other, you could basically get an extra Pychic power on a Tervigon.

2. I would get the third power on the Tervis. 2 looks to be enough in this game, but too often I've ended up with something like Hemohrrage and Life Leech... against shooting armies having an extra Toughness boost really helps.

Very good questions. I've been struggling on whether I want the Swarmlord or an OA 2+ dakkarant to buff up my shoothing. Overall, I've settled on the Swarmlord because 1) he's a better psyker and 2) he's a better deterrant against enemy assault units. My list is composed primarily of shooting and tarpitting units. The Swarmlord fits in very well IMO because he makes the opponent think twice before tearing into the army. Overall, he's a great force multiplier with his psychic powers and the ability to give out PE/FC (as well as reserve bonuses) and my main counter-assault unit.

I was thinking about getting 3 psychic powers for my tervigons. I still may and probably will. It's very easy. I can just drop a biovore or some gargoyles or even 1 of my crushing claws (+1 gargoyle) to get there.



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
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7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






 jy2 wrote:
 jifel wrote:
Very well played game, I love how you systematically eliminated his threats. Only two real questions on your list:

1. How do you feel about the Swarmlord compared to an OA Dakka Tyrant with shell? By switching one for the other, you could basically get an extra Pychic power on a Tervigon.

2. I would get the third power on the Tervis. 2 looks to be enough in this game, but too often I've ended up with something like Hemohrrage and Life Leech... against shooting armies having an extra Toughness boost really helps.

Very good questions. I've been struggling on whether I want the Swarmlord or an OA 2+ dakkarant to buff up my shoothing. Overall, I've settled on the Swarmlord because 1) he's a better psyker and 2) he's a better deterrant against enemy assault units. My list is composed primarily of shooting and tarpitting units. The Swarmlord fits in very well IMO because he makes the opponent think twice before tearing into the army. Overall, he's a great force multiplier with his psychic powers and the ability to give out PE/FC (as well as reserve bonuses) and my main counter-assault unit.

I was thinking about getting 3 psychic powers for my tervigons. I still may and probably will. It's very easy. I can just drop a biovore or some gargoyles or even 1 of my crushing claws (+1 gargoyle) to get there.



How useful do you feel Old Adversary is on the Flyrant? Rerolling ones to wound is pretty expensive and doesn't help against vehicles, plus the obligated movement means I run him more as a "lone wolf", not counting on him to buff my army, just deal damage. I tried the Swarmlord, but he just seems to never reach combat... In my meta however, there are really no assault armies, except maybe a Daemons player. Chaos Space marines may change this though.


 
   
Made in be
Deranged Necron Destroyer






Typhus does not belong in a tally list, zombies are not nurgle.

you need a biker unit with lord for fast damage, plaguemarines, and Obliterators, spawns of nurgle and ofc Epi and plaguebearers.

You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things

And we shall do so again.

4500 pts


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

 jifel wrote:
How useful do you feel Old Adversary is on the Flyrant? Rerolling ones to wound is pretty expensive and doesn't help against vehicles, plus the obligated movement means I run him more as a "lone wolf", not counting on him to buff my army, just deal damage. I tried the Swarmlord, but he just seems to never reach combat... In my meta however, there are really no assault armies, except maybe a Daemons player. Chaos Space marines may change this though.

I can and will be dropping it (Old Adversary). I'm finding that I don't really take advantage of it enough.

As for Swarmy, it is alright if he doesn't make it into combat quickly. I'm just as happy advancing and shooting with my army, daring my opponent to come close with the Swarmlord there. But really what I am doing is trying to achieve what I call Positional Dominance. Basically in an objective game, you want to achieve the more advantageous position. Then your opponent will always be playing catchup to try to get to the objectives in the late-game, whereas you are already occupying them. So I really don't measure the Swarmlord's worth by how much he kills, but rather by the synergy that he brings to army (yeah, as if that can be measured ). Anyways, despite him not always killing his "worth", I think my list is drastically different without him at the helm.

But you do adjust for your meta. Only you will know what that is. If you think the walking dakkarant will do better in your locale, then by all means, use him. In my area, there is a decent mix of assault and shooting.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Valek wrote:
Typhus does not belong in a tally list, zombies are not nurgle.

you need a biker unit with lord for fast damage, plaguemarines, and Obliterators, spawns of nurgle and ofc Epi and plaguebearers.

I like zombies because they will be my answer to enemy deathstars and other assaulty units. Chaos is not the most assaulty army. Against certain builds, they will need bodies to absorb these type of units. That's how important I feel the role of the cultists are, Tally or no Tally.

As for the fast lord, I prefer my Tally build to be a shooty one. Bikes will be shooting until I can get the tally count up. I want to avoid combat for as long as possible, with the exception of the spawns. I could be wrong as I am just theorizing right now without an actual Epi-army, but I think this will be the starting point for my army.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/29 18:20:20



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Made in gb
Drone without a Controller




United kingdom

The Daemon Prince can't have the Axe of Blind Fury either. Good report though.
   
Made in us
Huge Hierodule





Louisiana

As per the latest FAQ he can.

Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it. 
   
Made in us
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






mickthesplit wrote:
The Daemon Prince can't have the Axe of Blind Fury either. Good report though.


FAQ allows it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Valek wrote:
Typhus does not belong in a tally list, zombies are not nurgle.

you need a biker unit with lord for fast damage, plaguemarines, and Obliterators, spawns of nurgle and ofc Epi and plaguebearers.


Typhus + vanilla cultists + Quad gun means auto tally turn 1....

You pair Typhus with the cultists

Assault the quad gun

At in5 pop his destroyer hive killing cultists and voila!

Now you bring a couple zombie units to score backfield and a few 20 man MoN cultist mobs to shoot down the enemy from range.

I personally will run Bikes, spawn and raptors from FA for flavor. Competitively I would just go for the spawn. MoN spawn are so good, and borderline broken with Epi.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/29 20:14:17


   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

 Red Corsair wrote:
Typhus + vanilla cultists + Quad gun means auto tally turn 1....

You pair Typhus with the cultists

Assault the quad gun

At in5 pop his destroyer hive killing cultists and voila!

Now you bring a couple zombie units to score backfield and a few 20 man MoN cultist mobs to shoot down the enemy from range.

I personally will run Bikes, spawn and raptors from FA for flavor. Competitively I would just go for the spawn. MoN spawn are so good, and borderline broken with Epi.

Can that be done? Assaulting your own quad guns? I hadn't even considered that. That would definitely be nasty.



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Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Huge Hierodule





Louisiana

 jy2 wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
Typhus + vanilla cultists + Quad gun means auto tally turn 1....

You pair Typhus with the cultists

Assault the quad gun

At in5 pop his destroyer hive killing cultists and voila!

Now you bring a couple zombie units to score backfield and a few 20 man MoN cultist mobs to shoot down the enemy from range.

I personally will run Bikes, spawn and raptors from FA for flavor. Competitively I would just go for the spawn. MoN spawn are so good, and borderline broken with Epi.

Can that be done? Assaulting your own quad guns? I hadn't even considered that. That would definitely be nasty.



Quad guns count as gun emplacements. Gun emplacements are neutral units that can be fired or assaulted by any unit. As an aside, drop pod space marines can actually disembark B2B with the quad gun and fire it if they so desire.

Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it. 
   
Made in it
Infiltrating Broodlord





Italy

Have you considered to drop OA on the Flyrant and the lash whip on the Tyrant Guard?
This way, so easily, you'll may buy the third powers for the Tervigons.
Without depleting other units or reducing any particular efficiency.

As you pointed out your Swarmlord don't have to reach combat as soon as possible and acting as a counter assaulter, 1 or 2 enemy models down to I1 wouldn't make a lot of difference no?

PS: another thing.

Does Gargoyles cover a really important role in this list? Your Flyrant do not need them for cover purposes as it was in the past, they would have taken advantages by OA on the Flyrant but supposing you're gonna drop it they will stay with just the nerfed Furious Charge and poisoned ST4 attacks.

Wouldn't be btter to invest those 160 pts elsewhere? In example on a third Troops Choice?

During this PS I thought about this list, maybe a little overkill but what the hell.. why not?

HQ - Swarmlord - 1x Tyrant Guard w/lash whip. 345 (Lash Whip back in the list just because of 5 free points)
HQ - Flyrant - 2x TL Dev. 260
EL - 3x Hive Guards. 150
EL - 3x Hive Guards. 150
EL - 2x Zoanthropes. 120
TR - Tervigon - TS - Cluster Spines - Catalyst. 185
TR - 10x Termagants. 50
TR - Tervigon - TS - Cluster Spines - Catalyst. 185
TR - 10x Termagants. 50
TR - Tervigon - TS - Cluster Spines - Catalyst. 185
TR - 10x Termagants. 50
HV - 3x Biovores. 135
HV - 3x Biovores. 135

Same number of psychic bonuses (assuming the changes to apply to your original list) but more surviving power, more tarpitting/terrain denial units, more different targets regarding biomancy powers (more bonuses on strategical units if necessary), more opportunity of having the right powers from Biomancy list.. etc..

With just 1 KP more.. if this still means something..

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/30 14:16:39


Every molecule will be useful

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San Jose, CA

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Quad guns count as gun emplacements. Gun emplacements are neutral units that can be fired or assaulted by any unit. As an aside, drop pod space marines can actually disembark B2B with the quad gun and fire it if they so desire.

Cool. Going to have to try that out in a test game, though I'd be hesitant to do it against an actual opponent. Don't think you'll make too many friends with that tactic.


 Toban wrote:
Have you considered to drop OA on the Flyrant and the lash whip on the Tyrant Guard?
This way, so easily, you'll may buy the third powers for the Tervigons.
Without depleting other units or reducing any particular efficiency.

As you pointed out your Swarmlord don't have to reach combat as soon as possible and acting as a counter assault 1 or 2 enemy models down to I1 wouldn't make a lot of difference no?

PS: another thing.

Does Gargoyles cover a really important role in this list? Your Flyrant do not need them for cover purposes as it was in the past, they would have taken advantages by OA on the Flyrant but supposing you're gonna drop it they will stay with just the nerfed Furious Charge and poisoned ST4 attacks.

Wouldn't be btter to invest those 160 pts elsewhere? In example on a third Troops Choice?

During this PS I thought about this list, maybe a little overkill but what the hell.. why not?

HQ - Swarmlord - 1x Tyrant Guard w/lash whip. 345 (Lash Whip back in the list just because of 5 free points)
HQ - Flyrant - 2x TL Dev. 260
EL - 3x Hive Guards. 150
EL - 3x Hive Guards. 150
EL - 2x Zoanthropes. 120
TR - Tervigon - TS - Cluster Spines - Catalyst. 185
TR - 10x Termagants. 50
TR - Tervigon - TS - Cluster Spines - Catalyst. 185
TR - 10x Termagants. 50
TR - Tervigon - TS - Cluster Spines - Catalyst. 185
TR - 10x Termagants. 50
HV - 3x Biovores. 135
HV - 3x Biovores. 135

Same number of powers (assuming the changes to apply to your original list) but more surviving power, more tarpitting/terrain denial units, more different targets regarding biomancy powers (more bonuses on strategical units if necessary), more opportunity of having the right powers from Biomancy list.. etc..

With just 1 KP more.. if this still means something..

Nice list. Yeah, that is a list that I would definitely consider taking with me if I was going to a tournament. It's really got a lot of staying power.


But this is the list that I will be trying out in my next game:

HQ - Swarmlord - 1x Tyrant Guard w/lash whip. 345
HQ - Flyrant - 2x TL Dev. 260
EL - 3x Hive Guards. 150
EL - 3x Hive Guards. 150
EL - Doom - Mycetic Spore - 130
TR - Tervigon - TS - Cluster Spines - Catalyst, Onslaught, Crushing Claws. 225
TR - 10x Termagants. 50
TR - Tervigon - TS - Cluster Spines - Catalyst, Onslaught, Crushing Claws. 225
TR - 10x Termagants. 50
FA - 18x Gargoyles - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
HV - 3x Biovores. 135
HV - 3x Biovores. 135


Not as optimized as your list, but I am currently lacking a 3rd tervigon.


The lash whip helps the Swarmlord against some of the more uber units/characters (i.e. Mephiston, Vect, fighty-HQ's, etc.). Gargoyles are an awesome unit. Their role is more to disrupt and when combined with Endurance and/or Invisibility, are actually quite survivable. You really have to play them (or play against them as I have against Janthkin's bugs) to appreciate their value. They are another threat that really cannot be ignored, not so much in their killiness but more because they tarpit enemy units, thus allowing your TMC's to get in position to kill stuff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/30 14:24:02



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Italy

Lacking a 3rd tervigon of course is a problem ;D especially when it isn't the easier model to proxy (apart maybe with a pack of sigarettes on the short side.. lol).

Anyway I don't understand the Doom choice.

Ok, it's uber, but you're literally throwing him a little too close to enemy counters. I may imagine his impact on large (low Discipline) tarpitting units, something that with all the zombies/mobs/gants/ecc units that we're looking back again on the tables sound useful but if used this way you're loosing a solid force-multiplier-unit in form of the dual Zoans team.

Of course Cataclysm, if used in combo with Biomancy debuffs like multiple Enfeebles, looks "hilarious" but I do find it a little too demanding. too much attentions (from too much models) on a limited field area imho.

Anyway, as always, I like to be proven wrong and I'll wait patiently your next BR.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/10/30 14:33:24


Every molecule will be useful

6000+ pts NIDS
() 2000 pts growing to 4000... 
   
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San Jose, CA

The Doom is just an experimentation for now. Going to give him a try and if I like him, he may stay. He's a force-multiplier as well, though more of an offensive one (whereas the the zoans are more of a stay-back-synapse type of force-multiplier unit).

And I don't necessarily have to throw the Doom at the enemy right off the bat. I can always drop him back with the rest of my army. Yes the Doom is a great disruption unit as well as fire magnet, however, that doesn't mean you always have to play him as such. Depending on the type of army you are playing against, sometimes it's wiser to let him hang back for a couple of turns to wait up for the rest of the army (or at least to give him 1 turn to cast Iron Arm if he gets that power). Then again, more often than not it's better to play him aggressively.



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Cannock

I've skipped right to the bottom, so I do not know who has won at the time of posting this.

Looking at the terrain, I think the Chaos may have this. Those Dragons will roast some bugs!

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Italy

 mercer wrote:
I've skipped right to the bottom, so I do not know who has won at the time of posting this.

Looking at the terrain, I think the Chaos may have this. Those Dragons will roast some bugs!


More or Less
Someone has been roasted (or so..) and someone else is still heating this previously roasted someone.
In fact, in the end, it doesn't really matter. Biomass it's just biomass

Every molecule will be useful

6000+ pts NIDS
() 2000 pts growing to 4000... 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

 mercer wrote:
I've skipped right to the bottom, so I do not know who has won at the time of posting this.

Looking at the terrain, I think the Chaos may have this. Those Dragons will roast some bugs!

IMO helldrakes are not so bad unless you are playing MEQ armies.

But even still, with adequate spacing and lots of bodies (i.e. non-MSU MEQ's), you can still survive against them.


 Toban wrote:
 mercer wrote:
I've skipped right to the bottom, so I do not know who has won at the time of posting this.

Looking at the terrain, I think the Chaos may have this. Those Dragons will roast some bugs!


More or Less
Someone has been roasted (or so..) and someone else is still heating this previously roasted someone.
In fact, in the end, it doesn't really matter. Biomass it's just biomass

The Hive Mind will consume all, even if the biomass is warped.



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 jy2 wrote:
I can and will be dropping it (Old Adversary). I'm finding that I don't really take advantage of it enough.


Old Advisary works better for a dakka ground tyrant that remains close to Hive Guard. Still if I need points, this is where I get them from.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 jy2 wrote:
The Hive Mind will consume all, even if the biomass is warped.


What you never heard of soul food before?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/01 20:54:34


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San Jose, CA

 wyomingfox wrote:
 jy2 wrote:
I can and will be dropping it (Old Adversary). I'm finding that I don't really take advantage of it enough.


Old Advisary works better for a dakka ground tyrant that remains close to Hive Guard. Still if I need points, this is where I get them from.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 jy2 wrote:
The Hive Mind will consume all, even if the biomass is warped.


What you never heard of soul food before?

Yeah, I am dropping OA from my flyrant. I am finding it to be not very useful on a unit that is usually apart from the main army.



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