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So with the new chaos codex, the bikes now actually look really appealing. I have 3 bike models lounging about, so I figured I should run them as a minimum unit with a couple of meltas and a combimelta, for tank hunting, with mark of Nurgle.

Am I correct in assuming I should give the champion a powerfist, so that he can assault tanks he did not manage to melta? I was getting ready to do that, but then I realized that actually, with toughness 6, the biker champion would actually be a pretty good duelist, able to kill enemy sargents before they get to use PFs, and would survive powerswords. So maybe I should just give him a power sword and meltabombs?

However I kinda doubt the rest of the squad can dish out enough attacks to win a combat.

What do you think? How do you run your bikes?

One thing I've been seeing people try to show the math for is that you usually want to go with MoS and Icon for larger bunches but it's more cost effective to use the MoN on smaller units of guys.

Many people want to use their CSM bikers as fast moving suicide squads, many like to use them as counter charge units to tie up something potentially disruptive. I've also seen a number of forum goers trying to make them a solid home for HQ units as a crappy deathstar.

I think that they are an awful lot like the termicide of old, but can also be used to slingshot an attached HQ into something. I'm not sure you want to invest too heavily into them because they are cost effective but don't really get very much better with heavy investment, they just become a more interesting target.
When you start looking at a unit of bikers and an HQ you have to start wondering about how much work it is actually capable of doing and it becomes a much nicer investment for enemy fire than just 3 bikes 2 meltas and a combi melta (give or take MoN).

A Slaneeshi Lord with Fist/LClaw with a large squad of bikers WOULD be awesome, and worth the symbol of excess.

But for now, I am stuck with 3 bikes. I am assuming then that I should stick with the Chainfist then.

 Lucre wrote:
One thing I've been seeing people try to show the math for is that you usually want to go with MoS and Icon for larger bunches but it's more cost effective to use the MoN on smaller units of guys.

Many people want to use their CSM bikers as fast moving suicide squads, many like to use them as counter charge units to tie up something potentially disruptive. I've also seen a number of forum goers trying to make them a solid home for HQ units as a crappy deathstar.

I think that they are an awful lot like the termicide of old, but can also be used to slingshot an attached HQ into something. I'm not sure you want to invest too heavily into them because they are cost effective but don't really get very much better with heavy investment, they just become a more interesting target.
When you start looking at a unit of bikers and an HQ you have to start wondering about how much work it is actually capable of doing and it becomes a much nicer investment for enemy fire than just 3 bikes 2 meltas and a combi melta (give or take MoN).

This.

Bikes are very cheap, which is good, but it seems like they're hard to make into a beefy unit. There's no real way to kit them out as a really decent assault unit, they're the kind of unit that can potentially, but isnt guaranteed to dick over troop squads in assault but can't do much against real assaulty units, and they don't really have the options to take enough shooty stuff to fulfill a lot of roles.

The only role I see for them is as suicide tank hunters. Minimal squad, 2 meltas & a combi on the sergeant, plus melta bombs & a fist. Mark of Nurgle or Slaanesh+ IoE depending on how you want to go about giving them a bit of staying power.

Actually, I am going to differ, I want to say they are potentially a great assault unit, thanks to hammer of wrath, MoK and Wrath Icon.

They get the twin linked bolter, cool, but they come stock with bolt pistol and CCW

So you have a unit of 6 with vets, 2 meltas (Replace the bolter if you want assault flavor.) and a champ w/ p.w. + MB add MoK and wrath icon, and this unit is just about 200 pts.

This unit can get 6 hammer hits on the charge, 20 regular attacks, and the champ unleashes 5 ap 3 attacks himself. Also don't forget that on the charge they are at STR 5, meaning those hits will wound easier, and with Vets, they are going to have an easier time hitting.

Reliably can get assaults due to increased range, and re-rollable charge distances...Seems pretty good!

Maybe not the most terrifying unit, but I would say just right for the price.

I've been thinking about including a squad of 6 bikers with MoN and 2x meltaguns to perform AT duties, go for backfield units like Long Fangs, and just maybe live long enough to get Linebreaker if my other units get focused down.

cheap cheap cheap. I'd go for VotLW, a mark, and 2x special weapons.

adding more than those things to a bike unit is overboard because it would mean that you're not taking advantage of a 13pt points drop (give or take)

 Brometheus wrote:
cheap cheap cheap. I'd go for VotLW, a mark, and 2x special weapons.

adding more than those things to a bike unit is overboard because it would mean that you're not taking advantage of a 13pt points drop (give or take)

cheap cheap cheap? with VotlW, marks, and special weapons there isnt anything you arent including besides champion gear and an icon. For a large slanesh unit icon of excess is def worth it. FNP on T5 bikes is sometimes better than T6 bikes. Champions are the name of the game in 6th so I would give him something, probably just a sword.

MoN isn't really as good on bikers as you might think, sure if they get locked in combat with simple marines or low str units they are gods, however with T5 they are pretty much the same deal. On my games every single time what has killed my bikes (which were only MoN for one game then I realized I rather spend those points on something else) were power fists/axes/walkers while they were on combat with another unit or with meltas/plasmas/missile launchers, MoN only would have helped a little against plasmas but... wounding on 3s rather than 2s... I rather take my chances and buff my troops with those points, against power axes MoN works as well however

They aren't always locked in combat though. And the difference is still relevant when they are.

The idea here is how cheap it is to give them that little difference. You also have to consider what their job is.

When bikes are turbo boosting into position, a small number of them wont really be worth investing high volumes of special fire at, especially with the cover save, they will however likely be in range of some small arms fire. I'd rather not have them breaking and falling back due to being the only thing some storm bolters have to shoot at yet. There are also just a lot of torrent weapons and attacks that being T6 is better than being T5 for handling. And what am I doing with any other mark for the dumb suicide or slingshot squad?

I also like unlocking plague marines, so this isn't my trick, but if you stick a normal unmarked sorc or lord in a unit of plagues suddenly he's part of a majority toughness six squad. How's about thems apples?

And I'll say that it isn't bad to have assault bikers, they are kinda like fast chosen. Go for it lads! I'm just way more excited about having lots of little threats and grabbers. I figure I'm spending enough on mobile ap3 templates and iffy troops options anyway!

How cheap?, giving MoN to a biker increases 30% its cost, that doesn't sound cheap, maybe for a 3 man squad. But when you plan in fielding a strong unit paying 30% more is a lot.

Having T6 vs T5 against torrent again isn't that big of a difference it's all about the maths.

Say you have 3 MoN bikes, get rapid fire by 10 SM an everyday situation, by their bolter fire they do and avg of 0.74 wounds to a MoN biker. If you invest almost the same points on an unmarked squad for 2 points you get 4 bikes instead, the same torrent fire will do to them 1.4 wounds. That gives you a high probability of having 2 MoN bikes left and a 50/50 to have 2-3 unmarked ones left. Here I'd say the MoN and normal bikes are pretty much the same, at the end the MoN will hold better by a little however bolter fire isn't the only thing a squad of 10 marines pack.

Going with the new trend of 10 marines 2xplasmas, rapid firing on the same units, 16 boltershots & 4 plasmas give the MoN bikes an avg of 1.77 wounds, leaving probably only 1 left. An unmarked squad of 4 would take 2.66 wounds leaving one bike alive as well. So you again end up tying in how many models you get left but now with a slight advantage to the unmarked having a higher probability of ending with 2 left than the MoN ones.

As you move this scenario to Str 8 the MoN get worse. So it all depends on what you are usually facing on your games but imho I rather have more shots/attacks for pretty much the same cost/durability


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and on the lord/sorc subject sure for the purposes of shooting the entire unit gets the higher T, however once he gets on cc and have to declare challenge he is being hit at his normal T and might get instakilled by anything Str8, I'm wth you on paying MoN to a lord, makes it more durable and the plague are still the best objective holders imo

I have two 7-man Bike squads with MoN, 2x meltaguns and a champ with powersword. Like OP said, I figure the champ can win some challenges if there isn't a tank target in range. But after reading folks' opinions on smaller MoN squads, I may consider cutting down to three or five bike per unit and adding meltabombs. I leave one FA slot open for Blight Drones though.

Ughhhh I don't really have to respond to most of this because you seemed to have missed something I was qualifying most of my statements with...

I really only like MoN over the others on small squads. Or maybe if you really need a place for a Nurgle lord.

MoN is not something I'm debating is hard to justify on larger squads. Well, not all that hard to justify given that when they are moving up they have the +3 cover, but just not something that seems to be one of the better options.

MoN has a lot of interesting benefits, biggest ones being that it is a flat rate and that in most cases it improves a unit's survivability by about 16%. Small groups of bikers are usually effective for a task and then you can get a little bit of annoyance out of them, contesting tarpitting, slingshotting. MoN makes them a little better at being annoying and a little better at being a poor investment for enemy shooting. I think part of it is psychological.

There are lots of other ways to run your bikes, as I said, mine so far have revolved around the notion that I can do something effective and cheap with them while enabling other units to be good and shore up weaknesses in my list. This is very exciting for me because there is tonnes of very effective but expensive crap in this codex. AP3 flying flamers for instance.

I'd love someone to show me a new way to use them! Right now they all seem okay but I have my doubts. Really even MSU with cobi melta and 2 meltas and no marks might be best, but I like how awful it is to kill them MoN style and I'm trying out plague marines.

Also there is no instant death for a sorc or lord unmarked on a bike from str 8 mate. They have toughness five in and out of combat either way.