Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP

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**Fenris-77**

Yeah, but that just mitigates for better units with better synergy, not the removal of it, 8th is all about that exact kind of synergy, so I don;t see it being removed from the army.

**Doctoralex**

I got a question about the Powers of the C'tan (didnt get an answer on You Make Da Call sub yet)

1: Can a C'tan shard use his Power of the C'tan while locked in combat?

2: Can he shoot said power into an enemy unit that is locked in combat?

3: Can he target characters with the power when they are not the closest unit?

4: For the C'tan shard of the Nightbringer specifically, does he have to declare the target of his power the same time he uses his Gaze of Death?

**Cmdr_Sune**

1. I guess so since it doesn't say otherwise. I would compare them to psychic powers except they are done in the shooting phase.
2. This should also be possible since it's not specified as a shooting attack.
3. Times arrow says pick a visible enemy unit, so you should be able to snipe enemy characters. Don't remember if it was faq'ed. The other powers says closest enemy unit, so no character sniping.
4. Good question. I would guess you have to declare both before you resolve them since it's in the same phase.

**kingaegon151**

Attacks from ranged weapons are the only attacks that must follow those 4 rules (unless specified otherwise of course). Ranged weapons are defined as certain items listed in the "Wargear Options" or "Weapons" section of the unit datasheet (Datasheet section of Core Rules, points 6 and 8). C'tan powers are not listed in either of these sections in the unit datasheets so C'tan powers are not ranged weapons but rather abilities with rules that are not described in the core rules and thus do not ascribe to these rules (Datasheet section of Core Rules, point 7).
So:
1. Yes, the ability's rule has no such restriction
2. Yes, the ability's rule has no such restriction
3. Yes, so long as you follow any other targeting restriction (ie. 'closest unit' for Antimatter Meteor and Seismic Assault)
4. No, the ability's rule has no such restriction.

**Doctoralex**

My fellow Overlords,

In but a week I have another match planned. It will be a Cities of Death game, where infantry and Fly units are key.

Here is my 1250 point list, please let me know what you think.

Spoiler:

**Lothmar**

Doctoralex wrote:
So, let me bounce these idea's for Necron strategems of you Guys:

Spoiler:

1 CP; By Mine Will: Use this strategem whenever an Overlord or Catacomb Command Barge uses the 'My will be Done' or 'Wave of Command' ability. This unit can use this ability an additional time this turn.

1 CP; Enchanced Technomany; At the start of your turn, increase the range of the aura abilities of a Cryptek by 6".

2 CP; Eternal servitude; Use this strategem whenever the last model of a unit with reanimation protocols dies. Do not remove this model from the table. You can roll Reanimation Protocols for this unit at the start of your next turn.

1 CP; Mindless Machines: Use this strategem on a unit of Warriors, Immortals or Scarabs. This unit automatically passes any morale tests for this turn.

1 CP Renewed body: Use this strategem whenever you use the living metal ability on a unit. The unit gains D3 wounds back instead of 1.
If the unit has the Phylactery ability, it gains D6 wounds back instead of 1.

2 CP; Dimensional Portal: Use this strategem whenever a unit of Deathmarks has used the Ethereal Interception ability. When the unit is done shooting, place them back in reserve. This strategem can only be used once per game.

3 CP; Puppeteer of Reality: use this strategem whenever you use the Grand Illusion ability from the C'tan shard of the Deceiver. You can now re position D6 units instead of D3.

1 CP; Star-God's power: Use this strategem whenever a C'tan unit uses a Power of the C'tan. This unit can use one power of the C'tan again for this turn.

1 CP; Trans-dimensional Beings: Use this strategem at the start of the enemy turn. Select a unit of Canoptek Wraiths; this unit is -1 to hit for this turn.

2 CP; Total Destruction; Use this strategem whenever a unit of Destroyers or Heavy Destroyers finished shooting. This unit can shoot again, but must shoot at the same target.

1 CP; Quantum Overload: Use this strategem whenever a unit with Quantum Shielding is taking damage. You can reroll the Quantum Shielding rolls for this unit for this turn.

2 CP; Death and Doom: Use this strategem whenever a unit has been targeted by a Doomscythe's Death Ray and a Doomsday Ark's Doomsday Cannon. This unit takes D6 mortal wounds.

That's all I can come up with for now!

Some of these I actually liked.

Commentary Below

Spoiler:

Not sure what I would name it, but I think there needs to be a a higher level variant of the 'By my will' in there. Maybe 'We are Legion~' but make it 2CP and MWBD becomes an Aura ability within 6" for all applicable squads (or 12 for CCB).

Maybe if people think it needs further restrictions, perhaps add a stipulation where they all need to attack the same target or something, then once its gone you can refocus any remainder elsewhere etc.

Even though I liked it, the enhanced technomancy should probably be changed so that those abilities become a 6" radius instead of adding +6. Afterall our 'master' of technomancy only has a 3" aura and our 'master' with the chronometron gets a 6".

The eternal servitude strat looks like it's almost completely pointless in melee situations. "Ok this squad is wiped, im paying 2cp and laying this model down to RP on." Opponent: "Oh, well 3 inch consolidation~" *positions around it entirely so theres nowehere to rp back, even the original since there's models within 1". 2cp down the drain. Granted for shooting situations where that unit is far away from enemy forces and it's low likelihood someone can interfere yeah it seems sound.

Perhaps it needs a sister Strat~ "Service beyond death" or "Reanimation in progress, please stand by..." or something so long as it really captures that feel of the Necrons pulling their pieces together over time like in the flavor blurbs. You spend 2CP and lay the last model down, you may attempt an rp during the next RP phase or any future turns RP phase. This means the opponent has to either be paranoid and leave something sitting there and you're tying up his points, or you appear behind him and start blasting, or your forces maybe push the enemy back enough or wipe out enough stuff that you can RP to get that unit back at another point etc.

Maybe make puppeteer of reality 2d3's for higher minimum, or make it 1d3 of 1d3's, or a set number like 3 +1d3. *chuckle*

Would you have to declare 'Quantum overload' at the start of receiving damage? Or is it at any point along the line? Ex: Enemy starts shooting a doomsday ark. After failing my first armor save and QS save do I need to activate this, at which point he focuses any further firepower on another unit. Or can I go 'welp I failed one 2 wound and three 5 wound QS rolls and the DDA should die but ima spend a CP and reroll. *rolls* Ok im only down 2 now."
One seems like its daring the enemy to shoot that guy, where as the other seems kind of cheesy.

------

Docs list -

Not sure the size of the board you'll be playing on or the amount of cover/elevation. But yeah if you absolutely need the hitting power of the HD then by all means use it, alternatively I might suggest phasing out the c'tan entirely and running a max squad of destroyers with 1 heavy destroyer. Either way consider giving them a dedicated Cryptek and giving that cryptek the mantle. At which point you deploy them first turn from cover/concealment (assuming you dont have init) A into Cover B at high elevation and in range for your regular destroyers. At which point you have amazing armor and 5+ invul just in case and higher RP chances and considering the wounds you are getting back per model RPing them is well worth it in my opinion.

If you're just keeping some Heavy D's for artillery support and don’t want to move closer then either don’t assign the cloak or leave it for insurance in case the enemy runs you down and you want to redeploy elsewhere. Keep that cryptek hidden, maybe a squad of 3 scarabs as guard for him so he's not plinked. Perhaps consider running a squad of deathmarks or flayed ones, some kind of unit that he can buff with invul/rp enhancements and will aid you in repelling a raid on your artillery block by phasing in.

If you bring in a CCB then you can probably have that get over to the Destroyer forces promptly to improve their shooting a bit considering its speed and it can provide some decent ground support keeping them defended.

Altenratively if you wanted to use our bikes instead those also have RP's, granted you wont get a cover bonus most likely if you place them high but since they're a flier you can move them from high elevations etc and make so it's very hard for non fliers to catch them if you keep ruin hopping. But yeah most likely the enemy will roll up on your position and you'll have to abandon the cryptek, at which point you can DS some deathmarks so he's got some protection while your bikes flank out etc.

**epaemil**

okay I need help. What do I do against Primaris Dark Angels with Plasma rifles as Necrons when I don't have any big guns except a Stalker? Seems like I will be blown to bits without being to take down a single one

**CthuluIsSpy**

Try destroyers, I guess? Their guns are the most suited to deal with primaris, as its one of the few multidamage weapons the necrons have. Or you can try tying them up with wraiths or scarabs to buy a turn of no shooting.
They don't have the fly keyword, so if they fallback they can't shoot.

**epaemil**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Try destroyers, I guess? Their guns are the most suited to deal with primaris, as its one of the few multidamage weapons they have. Or you can try tying them up with wraiths or scarabs to buy a turn of no shooting.
They don't have the fly keyword, so if they fallback they can't shoot.

I dont have the time to get new units, so I guess I'll have to just use my scarabs for all I'm worth. I can already feel my bum being sore from those plasmas

**Venerable Ironclad**

Plasma spam is one of the few things a cryptek's 5++ bubble can really help against.

**Cmdr_Sune**

Yeah, plasma really gives the hurt and those Primaris ones have 30" range and are at AP-4. When they pop that Weapons of Dark Ages stratagem they also do 1 addition damage.

As ChtuluSpy mentioned a large unit of Destroyers might do it. If you have a hard time getting them where they need to be use the Veil. An Overlord that gives them MWBD makes them pretty always hit what they are targeting. One problem is that if they don't do heavy damage to the Primaris unit they are in a very hard place. A 10 man Primaris unit is not an easy nut to crack with Necrons. With the stragagem and overcharged those plasmas do 3 damage.

Another option is to use Wraiths and charge them. The 3++ is a good counter to plasma.

What else does he have in his army?

**sieGermans**

Aren’t Destroyers the worst thing to field vs. Plasma, though?

Surely single wound models would do far better. Say Immortal spam?

**Cmdr_Sune**

Yes, it all depends on who shoots first Destroyers or Primaris and 6 Destroyers might only kill a couple of Primaris while the return fire from say 10 Primaris will hurt a lot.

Sadly not even gauss Immortals do a lot of damage to Primaris in cover. And when the Immortals are within rapid fire range so are the plasmas.

The best way to kill them is either to have a reliable way to get into CC or shoot them with long range high AP multiple damage weapons. Necrons really doesn't have any of this.

Perhaps Stalkers, Doomsday Arks, Heavy Destroyers and FW stuff is the best bet.

**Doctoralex**

Keep in mind that regular Hellblasters only have 30" range. If you keep your Heavy Destroyers out of range, then move in and you should get a turn of shooting on them before they can shoot back. Not to mention that they will probably have to move out of cover if they wish to get into range.

I've also had some luck with a C'tan shard using Time's Arrow against Primaris. Popping a 75p model on a 3+? Hell yea!

**Cmdr_Sune**

Isn't hellblaster 40 points?

**Doctoralex**

Ah you are right, my mistake.

Still an easy way to pop such a dangerous unit though.

**CthuluIsSpy**

sieGermans wrote:
Aren’t Destroyers the worst thing to field vs. Plasma, though?

Surely single wound models would do far better. Say Immortal spam?

Immortals lack the damage output.
Primaris have 2 wounds with a 3+ save.

Gauss blasters reduce that save to a 5+, or a 4+ in cover.
If you get in rapid fire range, that's about 4 dead primaris out of cover, 3 dead in.
In long range you only get 10 shots, so that's 2 out of cover, 1 in.

This is not factoring in the primaris hellblasters shooting back, which can take away about 8 immortals at rapid fire range, 4 at long range. And this is without overcharge or the strategem.

Its hard to calculate how many 6 destroyers can kill, but I think its about 6 if you role good on damage.
As destroyers don't have to worry about getting rapid fire, you can just stay out of the hellblaster 15" RF range. So just 10 incoming shots from a 10 man squad. If they overcharge and use the strategem, that's 5 destroyers. Without the stratagem that's only 2

All calculations done with mathhammer.

**Cmdr_Sune**

Well a C'tan has a 2 in 3 chance to kill one 40 point model per turn. Not great. The Dark Angels player will probably have more that the Hellblasters in his army too so it's not an easy army for the Necrons to beat (but what army is?).

**sieGermans**

For Gauss Immortals:
10 man Primaris = 20 wounds * 4+ Armor = 40 wounds needed * 4+ to wound = 80 hits * 3+ to hit = 107 shots

That’s a lot.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Why 4+ to wound? Primaris are just T4, aren't they?

**Cmdr_Sune**

Yes Primaris are T4 so you would need 90 shots from Immortals to kill a 10 man Hellblaster squad in cover. Although killing 4 or 5 of them in a turn would cripple the Hellblaster unit a bit. If accompanied by Azrael the Hellblasters would have 4++ save anyway.

In this case the Deciever and the Veil are our friends.

We also have Tomb Blades with gauss and nebuloscopes ignoring cover. Give half of them shield vanes and the other half shadowlooms for 5++ saves. A unit of Tomb blades wouldn't kill the Hellblasters in one turn, but with some additional supporting fire they might kil 6-7 of them crippling the unit and forcing a morale check.

**skoffs**

So yeah, looks like the best way to take them on is to bring a 6 man Destroyer squad, with an Overlord for MWBD, a Cryptek for 5++/4+++, and a Destroyer Lord for wound rerolls.
All for a bargain price of... oh. I guess that explains why you never see Necrons near the top of anything competitive.

**EnTyme**

I hate how the only answer to "how do I handle unit X?" is almost always "Use Destroyers". Not only do I dislike the models, but it shows how much of a one-trick pony our army has become.

**Doctoralex**

skoffs wrote:
So yeah, looks like the best way to take them on is to bring a 6 man Destroyer squad, with an Overlord for MWBD, a Cryptek for 5++/4+++, and a Destroyer Lord for wound rerolls.
All for a bargain price of... oh. I guess that explains why you never see Necrons near the top of anything competitive.

Thats putting all the eggs in one Basket though. In my opinion, destroyers really dont need a 5++ from the Cryptek. They are easy enough to keep in cover, giving them 2+ save. Apart from the earlier mentioned Hellsblasters and maaaybe a Fire Prism, there isnt thet much ap-4 out of meltas, which are shorted ranged.

Though I suppose there are ignores cover weapons....

**CthuluIsSpy**

Well, another possible unit is the doomsday ark. It has longer range than hellblasters and packs quite a punch. -5AP means no saves, even in cover, and S10 D6 damage means that its wounding on 2+ and has a high chance of 1 hit killing a primaris.

**Cmdr_Sune**

Destroyers are ok, but not a competetive unit.

The problem with Destroyers (as everything else in the Necron index) is that they are expensive, don't have enough firepower and are rather fragile.

The positives are that they are Infantry, have fly, ignore to hit penalty from moving, can reroll ones to hit and can be buffed by characters.

However If you compare them with for example the Hellblasters they are not that bad. 10 Hellblasters are 400 points, 6 Destroyers (incl HD) is 390 points. The biggest drawback for the Destroyers in this case is the S5 gauss cannons. They will struggle against anything above T5 and that 1D3 damage is too unreliable.

**torblind**

S7 feels like a much more fitting level for the gauss cannon, in the middle between the blaster and the heavy. In 7th it could compensate low S with the gauss rule. No such advantage any more.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Idk, seems a bit high to me. I mean, heavy gauss are S9. S6 seems like the better value, imo. Not too high and not too low.
In fact, Gauss cannons were originally S6 until 5th came along. They were also AP4 rather than AP3, mind you, but they also had longer range and one more shot.

**skoffs**

EnTyme wrote:
I hate how the only answer to "how do I handle unit X?" is almost always "Use Destroyers".

That's not usually something people suggest (reasons have already been stated in thread).
My suggestion of taking them was a joke. I guess I should have included a "/s" to make that more clear.

**Requizen**

skoffs wrote:
EnTyme wrote:
I hate how the only answer to "how do I handle unit X?" is almost always "Use Destroyers".

That's not usually something people suggest (reasons have already been stated in thread).
My suggestion of taking them was a joke. I guess I should have included a "/s" to make that more clear.

The correct answer is "Have you tried playing Imperium? I hear Dark Angels are pretty good."

I'm not salty