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The models for heavy weapons teams are generally low to the ground. Does this mean if you park them behind an Aegis line, they won't be able to see anything? Or is it assumed that infantry behind the line can see/shoot freely?

 Iron Dragon wrote:
The models for heavy weapons teams are generally low to the ground. Does this mean if you park them behind an Aegis line, they won't be able to see anything? Or is it assumed that infantry behind the line can see/shoot freely?

True Line of Sight, you can't see you can't shoot.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Iron Dragon wrote:
The models for heavy weapons teams are generally low to the ground. Does this mean if you park them behind an Aegis line, they won't be able to see anything? Or is it assumed that infantry behind the line can see/shoot freely?

True Line of Sight, you can't see you can't shoot.

And the reverse is true of the underlined.

So usually if you can not shoot, you can not be killed either, as generally your model behind the ADL will be out of Line of Sight if you have no Line of Sight to the enemy.

not sure about weather things that don't have TLS threw the defense line can shoot. but all the troops in HW teams are tall enough to have line of sight threw the shorter parts of the defense line.

Okay then, do the kneeling guys who can see through the view slits of the Aegis line considered LOS? Or does it have to be the barrels of their guns? Does LOS go from the eyes of the model, or the weapon they're using?

 Iron Dragon wrote:
Okay then, do the kneeling guys who can see through the view slits of the Aegis line considered LOS?

For non vehicle models you use the models eyes to draw LoS. So if they can see them, regardless of where their weapons are, they can shoot them.

ezpete wrote:
not sure about weather things that don't have TLS threw the defense line can shoot.

They can not, as 6th ed uses True Line of Sight. Meaning if your model can not see it, it can not shoot it. (Without specific exception).

ezpete wrote:
but all the troops in HW teams are tall enough to have line of sight threw the shorter parts of the defense line.

Maybe not all of them.

These guys would probably have some issues with Line of Sight over even the small part of the ADL.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440249a&prodId=prod1080055

yeah those Vostroyan might have a problem. but as long as you are using Cadians you are fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and LOS is measured from the eyes except in the case of vehicles where you need to be able to draw LOS down the gun barrel.

Alright, thanks folks. Guess I need to be careful whenever I decide to play my first game as IG. Don't want my defenses to screw me over.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on the HWT you can trace line of sight from either guy's head, can't you? I modeled mine with the spotter standing. That way they have LOS to fire (and be hit by return fire).

TLOS isn't so great for infantry posed any way but standing. I prefer to treat them as standing (as long as my opponent is fine with it).

Bludbaff wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but on the HWT you can trace line of sight from either guy's head, can't you?

The rules do not say. either or, they just say the models eyes.

So if you can trace LoS from any of the models eyes you are good to go.

And if you find yourself with an infantry model positioned in such a way that you can't see from the model, discuss the matter with your opponent and see if they will see sense that infantry can move within a certain range and therefore monopose models can interact in a reasonable way with stationary scenery. Just rememebr to do it before you move into the position so you don't end up splitting hairs at a more pressured time (i.e. when the game hangs in the abalnce of a shot made from the model )

When 40K does not take which direction a model is facing when shooting a target like WH Fantasy does it would be fair to assume that in the case of the Cadian HWT (where both of the guys on the base are kneeling) that the spotter would be able to stand up in order to see over the wall. Its not like the model is moving any lateral direction.

ADL...the bane of my Steel Legion heavy bolters...

 OutlawBandit wrote:
When 40K does not take which direction a model is facing when shooting a target like WH Fantasy does it would be fair to assume that in the case of the Cadian HWT (where both of the guys on the base are kneeling) that the spotter would be able to stand up in order to see over the wall. Its not like the model is moving any lateral direction.

It might be seen as a reasonable house rule, but it is not something that the actual rules of the game allow.

In our games, not my local wargaming club we were allowed to shoot out heavy weapons teams through aegis defense lines, I think that these were there rules, in my club they don't...so it varies everywhere....but in my view like many above...you can't see you can't shoot...(true line of sight)

limiting yourself to the TLOS is fine when you only have basic miniatures, but when you're into conversions or just cool looking Steel Legion and the like, it's plain stupid
You just need an opponent that is not a fascist RAWer and agree that the prone HWT are in fact crouching, and everything's fine

TanKoL wrote:
limiting yourself to the TLOS is fine when you only have basic miniatures, but when you're into conversions or just cool looking Steel Legion and the like, it's plain stupid
You just need an opponent that is not a fascist RAWer and agree that the prone HWT are in fact crouching, and everything's fine

Not really, it's in the rules. Going against it on the other hand is pretty silly. You like to convert cool, make it look good there's pros and cons. You like Laying down HWT's cool their LOS is jacked though.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

TanKoL wrote:
limiting yourself to the TLOS is fine when you only have basic miniatures, but when you're into conversions or just cool looking Steel Legion and the like, it's plain stupid
You just need an opponent that is not a fascist RAWer and agree that the prone HWT are in fact crouching, and everything's fine

Not really, it's in the rules. Going against it on the other hand is pretty silly. You like to convert cool, make it look good there's pros and cons. You like Laying down HWT's cool their LOS is jacked though.

And you just missed the point entirely. I play marines so my guys can see. My friend plays IG, so in a FRIENDLY game he can shoot me and I can shoot him behind his line giving him a 4+ save. His point still stands as " fascist RAWer " will not be accommodating in a friendly game.
PG. 8 1st paragraph titled "The spirit of the game" and you know, it just a game who cares if he's prone if he can shoot you you can shoot him. If one or 2 models are prone, oh well get over it and just play the game to have fun. It's rules lawyers that are killing the games the people want to enjoy.

Hoopified wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

TanKoL wrote:
limiting yourself to the TLOS is fine when you only have basic miniatures, but when you're into conversions or just cool looking Steel Legion and the like, it's plain stupid
You just need an opponent that is not a fascist RAWer and agree that the prone HWT are in fact crouching, and everything's fine

Not really, it's in the rules. Going against it on the other hand is pretty silly. You like to convert cool, make it look good there's pros and cons. You like Laying down HWT's cool their LOS is jacked though.

And you just missed the point entirely. I play marines so my guys can see. My friend plays IG, so in a FRIENDLY game he can shoot me and I can shoot him behind his line giving him a 4+ save. His point still stands as " fascist RAWer " will not be accommodating in a friendly game.
PG. 8 1st paragraph titled "The spirit of the game" and you know, it just a game who cares if he's prone if he can shoot you you can shoot him. If one or 2 models are prone, oh well get over it and just play the game to have fun. It's rules lawyers that are killing the games the people want to enjoy.

No I get the point entirely. Not really being a "fascist RAWer". Just playing by the rules.
Besides nowhere was it mentioned a casual friendly game.
Again, maybe I find games more fun with a firm unbending ruleset, otherwise all bolters would be ap2

Place an objective behind the ADL and a a squad made of these guys:



and avoid anyone shooting you