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As the title says, could all the codexes have been updated and released at the same time 6th Ed came out?
This would probably save them a lot of grief, especially from Tau players and others.
Also, this just means the Codexes, they could stagger their miniature waves over the course of the edition or whatever, I (as a tau player) would just like to have all the people on a level playing field for once.

They could have, but even if they were they'd spread them out to try and maximise interest and sales in each release.

No, because they do not have the resources to do so in a timely fashion

Or, you dont ever get new models for your codexes.

Oh, and 6th ed would have been delyaed another 5 years.

They could, but you'll never see it.

Gw is a model company first and a games company second. As such, they would rather stagger the releases so that people will be more likely to buy more over time.

Although, it sucks just how much they stranger them, so that armies like tau and eldar kinda get left behind.

Each codex is such a big project I doubt you'd ever see this from GW.

The closest this has ever come to happening was 3rd edition. It was such a dramatic departure from 2nd that they release a compilation of basic army lists to use while waiting for the new codices. It balanced the armies, but they still eventually released individual books for each army over time, as they do now.

I don't believe so primarily because of all of the work that goes into a 40k Codex in terms of balancing, creating new models, mythos, writing, balancing, and so forth. Lots of concept, sketching, drafting and then testing.

While I do think the bulk of this work should be coinciding the writing of a 6th rulebook, I think that Games Workshop may lack the manpower to put such a thing into development with so many projects going on and working with the development of the rulebook simultaneously.

I would imagine - even the Codex designers must anticipate a Rulebook being finalized - imagine trying to develop a Codex, such a complex thing in itself, when you don't even have a concrete list of rules to work off of? The rulebook was a moving target for Codex writers, and now, at least, they know exactly what they must do to make their Codex make sense within 6th editions rules framework.

The rulebook really is, and should be, the bedrock for Codex development. The real problem is that they keep changing the !@$#$ing rulebook.

They also need to be very, very proactive in their updates of FAQs and errata - they NEED to be the vehicles for providing balance and a little bit of salve to those Codexes that take the biggest hit with each Rulebook, as well as calming some of the more egregious exploits among other Codexes.

Although, you could compare Rulebook-Codex development to a videogame's development. With a videogame, you release a videogame all at once, and then progressively patch within that videogame engine and ruleset the armies and units so that they are progressively tweaked and balanced, and then at the end you have a viable, self-contained product. Then you start all over again, with a new ruleset and new armies that are balanced to make another viable, self-contained product.

Maybe such a thing is possible, but it would certainly require a -lot- of coordination and care.

It's all about $$$. There is no way that codices are a massive work-sink given how messed up and useless much of codices can be, and often are. Some look like a guy wrote it up in a couple days at most.

 60mm wrote:
It's all about $$$. There is no way that codices are a massive work-sink given how messed up and useless much of codices can be, and often are. Some look like a guy wrote it up in a couple days at most.

I seriously doubt that. I've made at least 8 or 9 drafts of a Kroot Mercenaries fan dex and there are still problems both with the rules and the background. If you compressed my work down it would probably take me two to three weeks working 8 hour days. The rules are especially complicated because you have to stay true to both the background (and how they should appear on the table) and the rulebook and the limitations to how they should play on the table.
Then you have to test it repeatedly for 5 or 6 games and then fix the problems in the rules (disadvantages and advantages) to balance it out AND the background so the rules make sense.
And on top of that you have art and design elements, and you have pictures and tables and etc. etc..
AND the miniatures and their paint and their pictures (which come after the concept art and the background and rules)
The total thing would probably be 8-12 months of work.

I understand this is a big undertaking but with all the money we give them they might have some to spend on teams for the whole design, this is the staff I calculate it takes to write a codex (usign various sources):
1 or 2 (maybe 3, rarely)- Writers and rulemakers
8 to 12- Miniature, 'Eavy Metal, scenery and pictures team
1 or 2- Designers (fonts, placing of items, text arrangement around pictures etc.)
5 or 6- Artists
4 to 6- Producers
Total 19-28 staff members, I don't think that's sooo much for them.

4+ - Testers (taken from all departments, which shouldn't be hard), I don't really count them in as they are probably volunteers.

Theoretically they could do it, but from a financial standpoint it would be the equivalent of fiscal suicide. Instead of having a steam of continuous releases which generate continued interest, you'd have massive waves of boom and bust, which always have a negative impact on any economic system, from one as small as a household or company to as large as the global community.

 Arcani wrote:

 60mm wrote:
It's all about $$$. There is no way that codices are a massive work-sink given how messed up and useless much of codices can be, and often are. Some look like a guy wrote it up in a couple days at most.

I seriously doubt that. I've made at least 8 or 9 drafts of a Kroot Mercenaries fan dex and there are still problems both with the rules and the background. If you compressed my work down it would probably take me two to three weeks working 8 hour days. The rules are especially complicated because you have to stay true to both the background (and how they should appear on the table) and the rulebook and the limitations to how they should play on the table.

No offense but that doesn't necessarily mean codices are extremely time consuming to write. Perhaps you aren't a professional writer?

Could GW have done so? Certainly. Without question.

However their entire business model is built upon releasing new editions of every book slowly over time. This is opposed to many (most) other wargames, which release full complete faction rules at the start of each edition and release update/expansion content as time goes on for each.

So yes, GW could have done it, very easily in fact. Anyone saying that they just don't have the resources is being absurd (GW is a $250 million/year company). Rather, it's a matter of it being counter to their longstanding business model which would require significant structural changes to adapt to profitably.

 Arcani wrote:
I understand this is a big undertaking but with all the money we give them they might have some to spend on teams for the whole design, this is the staff I calculate it takes to write a codex (usign various sources):
1 or 2 (maybe 3, rarely)- Writers and rulemakers
8 to 12- Miniature, 'Eavy Metal, scenery and pictures team
1 or 2- Designers (fonts, placing of items, text arrangement around pictures etc.)
5 or 6- Artists
4 to 6- Producers
Total 19-28 staff members, I don't think that's sooo much for them.

4+ - Testers (taken from all departments, which shouldn't be hard), I don't really count them in as they are probably volunteers.

Except that:

1) We're talking about a 6th edition update, which is focused on the rules. You don't need a bunch of model painters to update the rules to the new edition and re-balance the old codices, so you can remove anyone in that 19-28 that doesn't write rules. Well, except for a token person to compile a final pdf of the rules.

2) You're forgetting that most of this work is already done. You don't need to hire 8-12 model painters, you just need to cut and paste in the same model pictures from the previous codex. You don't need to have your writers waste time on fluff (and in fact we'd prefer it if you didn't), they can spend all of their time writing rules and then move on to the next one.


And yeah, the idea that GW can't do this is pretty absurd. WOTC releases complete MTG sets, each of them with a lot more rules and complexity, at a rate that makes a joke of GW's schedule, and all of their products are professionally designed and extensively tested, unlike GW's. They simply choose not to, because their rules are intended to directly make profit, rather than doing it like a sensible company and releasing the rules for free as online pdfs and updating them constantly.

As others have said they could 'easily' release all at once.

Problem is that GW is a publicly traded company which relies on predicable revenue to generate returns for investors. This leads to more investment in the company and company growth.

A wave release model allows GW to even out the revenue over the life cycle of the edition. Versus a mass release model that would produce a large bump in revenue at the beginning that they will need to use to sustain business operations for the entire edition.

They could easily release a rulebook and rules for each army and skip all the fluff/pictures for later.

In fact it would probably be a better product since all the rules writers will work on it together and it will be tested all together.

They could even publicly playtest it all together.

We can dream.

Vaktathi - nope, they cant "easily" do it - not without hiring a ton of additional staff. Which oddly enough they dont want to do.

Their current release model works well for a model first company, whch most people seem to forget.

This could only work if they did a public beta test like privateer press did.And that would never happen. Also if the released all those books before hand, and none of the new models at the same time it leaves them open to some other company designing something for it. So far this has been the most updated FAQ of any edition since I started playing back in 2nd edition.So far they been doing really good keeping up,hopefully this team is dedicated and not split up to work on the hobbit

Updating codices is not that big of an undertaking, GW could easily update multiple codices simultaniously.

However, it would not be a good thing for the game.

It would be difficult for everyone to come up to speed with both a new edition and new codices. And not only is your codex new, EVERYONES codex is new. That means you don't know at all what to expect from the game.

That would make transitions a very painful experience.


Plus its not as great for profitability. You want to stagger releases so you constantly have a flow. And not just one big rush. Plus you will sell more overall.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Updating codices is not that big of an undertaking, GW could easily update multiple codices simultaniously.

From pitch through concept, sculpting, production, writing, play testing (however little they do) and release is roughly a year according to Cruddace at a Q&A. That's a pretty big undertaking.

That said, they do multiple books simultaneously now, they mentioned it at the same Q&A. Basically they work on 3 books at a time now to help with external balance, but it doesn't mean we'll get them all quicker.

 Grey Templar wrote:
However, it would not be a good thing for the game.

It would be great for the game as the books, all written at the same time, would be more balanced against each other. Though not for their sales, as they'd have one gigantic bubble of sales at release then meandering sales until the next edition.

The biggest issue with how long it takes is definitely new model kits. And with how they have been pushing multiple big dual kits, it's probably gotten worse for the designers to hit the deadlines. Releasing all of the books at the start of an edition with nothing new, and then White Dwarf/website PDF updates to codices with new stuff between editions would be fantastic, as we'd get launch books more balanced to each other and gradual new units over time, but it would be such a drastic change to their release schedule and sales expectations that we won't get it.

Indeed, and from GWs perspective there is no point in releasing a codex without new kits.

Although they could release codices and improve sales of existing kits for less effort.

 Grey Templar wrote:
And not only is your codex new, EVERYONES codex is new.

Which makes every game a new and exciting thing again. Or basically:

That means you don't know at all what to expect from the game.

...except that I see that as a good thing.

Plus its not as great for profitability. You want to stagger releases so you constantly have a flow. And not just one big rush. Plus you will sell more overall.

The thing is, they could still do that.

Release the new Core rulebook with an updated version of each codex (covering the existing model range) to fit the new rules. So every army immeidately has a current codex, as opposed to the current system where everybody has to make do with PDF patches until GW get around to updating their codex, which in some cases will happen right before the next edition of the core rules comes out.

Then over the lifespan of the edition you use the fact that you already have all of the necessary rules done to release campaign books, expansions, off-shoot army lists, and revised codexes where you feel that things need a bit of a facelift. So still plenty of room for new model releases, and constant new material being released to push sales of not only the new models, but also some of the older stuff that gets a new focus thanks to campaign or expansion special rules.

We can only dream...

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Vaktathi - nope, they cant "easily" do it - not without hiring a ton of additional staff. Which oddly enough they dont want to do.

Every other game company on the planet can do it with 1/10th, 1/100th or less the revenue and staff. GW could do it if it suited their business model and they wanted to. The writing of the rules and the books, is not what takes up GW's time and resources. With 3 or 4 people they could do it all in a couple of months with a couple more for playtesting and the like. I've worked on projects not too dis-similar. It's entirely doable and just about every other game company out there proves it.

The big thing is setting up the release, creating the products to go along with it, getting pictures done and arranging the layout of pages and the like to make it all nice and everything, etc, which is what GW has hundreds of people already doing.

Hell, half their books are already largely identical in terms of content, and each has a large degree of copy-paste work from older books. This isn't the most labor intensive thing in the world here for full time salaried professional writers.

Their current release model works well for a model first company, whch most people seem to forget.

I noted that

If they where updating the codexs faster, we could possibly get multiple codex updates an edition, and mini dexs, like the craftworld eldar or the catachan ones.

And if a codex is good, and not needing a update they could use its slot for other things.

Adding a few new units each year for each army would be far more healthy I think for the game and them.

Cruddace and Phil Kelly have both said that it takes over a year to create, play-test and tweak a Codex. That doesn't include the miniature process which runs alongside.

Sometimes those things aren't related - which is bizarre if you ask me.

If they wanted to release all the codexes side by side they'd need to hire 13+ designers and authors. Then have them all working side by side, non-stop for nearly 2 years.

They could do it but the problem would be that they wouldn't learn from their mistakes. They get better at writing codexes for the editions their in as the edition goes on.

Compare Space marines to Blood angels for example.

So it's for the best for most that they release a stream of them as they go.

What they have been doing recently which is very nice is releasing updates for armies in White dwarf. Storm talon, Ork fliers or Super awesome deamons anyone?

They also said that they were considering WD updates for Nids to make them a bit more cost effective and useful plus WD mini-dexes to use as allies for main armies. (Possibly Ad-mech, 'Squat' or Kroot mercenaries.)

It should be noted that it works well for them to stagger their release as noted above it also works to keep their revenue stream steady and constant without any huge spikes and drop offs as they go. Spikes and drop offs are terrible for companies as their share holders either get over exited by the spikes or get spooked by the drop offs. A steady stream keeps them in the black with a nice profit, gives them time to make - sometimes excellent, sometimes bad but very usually above average - product that we can all bitch about on the internet.

 Celtic Strike wrote:
Cruddace and Phil Kelly have both said that it takes over a year to create, play-test and tweak a Codex. That doesn't include the miniature process which runs alongside.

Sometimes those things aren't related - which is bizarre if you ask me.

If they wanted to release all the codexes side by side they'd need to hire 13+ designers and authors. Then have them all working side by side, non-stop for nearly 2 years.

Keep in mind they already work on multiple products at the same time (so it's not "one book for an entire year and that's it), and that half the armies in the game share 80% of their units (or very close variants under different names). Every other major game company puts out work at a much faster pace with a far smaller staff. Lots of that time is also editing, layout, etc that, if they were to do a "black book" style deal, could be combined all on one project. Of course, for its size, GW also does very limited playtesting as well relative to Wizards of the Coast, Privateer Press, etc. Hell, Forgeworld has put out 6 very large books in the last 12 months and they've got only 3 or 4 people writing books.

What really stretches it out is the marketing pipeline they've built around their business model.

 Celtic Strike wrote:
Cruddace and Phil Kelly have both said that it takes over a year to create, play-test and tweak a Codex. That doesn't include the miniature process which runs alongside.

Sometimes those things aren't related - which is bizarre if you ask me.

If they wanted to release all the codexes side by side they'd need to hire 13+ designers and authors. Then have them all working side by side, non-stop for nearly 2 years.

They could do it but the problem would be that they wouldn't learn from their mistakes. They get better at writing codexes for the editions their in as the edition goes on.

Compare Space marines to Blood angels for example.

So it's for the best for most that they release a stream of them as they go.

What they have been doing recently which is very nice is releasing updates for armies in White dwarf. Storm talon, Ork fliers or Super awesome deamons anyone?

They also said that they were considering WD updates for Nids to make them a bit more cost effective and useful plus WD mini-dexes to use as allies for main armies. (Possibly Ad-mech, 'Squat' or Kroot mercenaries.)

It should be noted that it works well for them to stagger their release as noted above it also works to keep their revenue stream steady and constant without any huge spikes and drop offs as they go. Spikes and drop offs are terrible for companies as their share holders either get over exited by the spikes or get spooked by the drop offs. A steady stream keeps them in the black with a nice profit, gives them time to make - sometimes excellent, sometimes bad but very usually above average - product that we can all bitch about on the internet.

Honestly I don't like the white dwarf updates. If they sell out or you can't find the right magazine then your screwed for those particular units.

They could, but they'll never admit it in a thousand years. That would be logical, something GW's pretty much proven to me it doesn't have, sadly.

They hardly write any fluff, so that's time saved. the stuff they do add could be added in an afternoon, as it's usually just a vague description of a new unit. Or it's new fluff that people don't want entirely. If they're playtesting the codexes, they either dontlisten to critique, or just have blatant yes man who wont say that something is broken and needs to be fixed.

I'm sorry but a lot of the excuses that GW gives are just crap. They dont want to do it because they want the "oooh shiney" effect to be staggered out so you buy more. In the meantine, if your army didnnt get updated for something rediculous like 6 or 7 years 2 editions ago, tough luck. And they'll never hire new codex writers, because that would cost money.

Long story short, it would cost money and time, and would be a small risk. GW dislikes gicing up the first 2 and taking any of the 3rd. So while they could do it, they never will.
Yes, i mad.

Vaktathi - except they couldnt release with any new models, as those take time on production machines to actually get into sufficient stock.

Other companies dont have half the logistic fun that GW do, and that drives their model.

Yes they probably could, but that would be a horrible business decision for a company with stockholders. Stockholders and the market like earnings and dividends to be smooth, paying at the same rate each year. Unless they think they can sustain an increase in what they put out, you won't see them increase product year to year. Releasing a bunch of stuff at once and not being able to keep that pace, would be bad for the value of the company, and thus, us players in the long-run. There's more to it but those are the basics.

If they do playtest new codices, that confirms they do indeed nerf certain units on purpose and boost others for sales.

There's no way playtesters missed things like Pyrovores and Vendettas.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Vaktathi - except they couldnt release with any new models, as those take time on production machines to actually get into sufficient stock.

Other companies dont have half the logistic fun that GW do, and that drives their model.

That's a different issue, and of course would take more time. That said, GW didn't worry about getting new models for new units out until the last year or so. But just to write the books and have all armies sporting updated 6th ed army lists? Entirely doable.