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2006/03/16 16:52:17
Subject: Multi-Trackers, Target Locks, and Marker Lights?
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Dakka Veteran
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Ok now I know the new codex comes out soon and they may have changed the wording on some things but I wanted to know peoples opinions on the old codexes wording for a Shas Ui Team leader with a Markerlight? In the description for purchasing his upgrades, it says you can buy a marker light for him at an additional 10 points, now because he is a Shas Ui, you can also purchase hardwired stuff for him from the Tau Armory, meaning he can have a HW Multi-tracker? Because it doesn't say he replaces the pulse rifle/carbine with a marker light wouldn't he have two weapons meaning he could fire both the marker light and the pulse rifle/carbine at his target? Reference page numbers are page 26 for his upgrades, page 18 for the HW multi-tracker, page 20 for the points cost of the HW multi-tracker. . . Also what if a crisis suit has a drone controller, and a target lock, could the gun drones also fire at a different target than the unit, or would the crisis suit fire at one target while the gun drones and any others fire at another target?
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2006/03/16 18:33:36
Subject: RE: Multi-Trackers, Target Locks, and Marker Lights?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Los Angeles
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Here we go:
The Shas'ui can buy the markerlight, giving him two weapons; however, he can only fire one weapon during the movement phase, so you have to choose which weapon to fire (assuming that you didn't move so that you're elligible to fire the markerlight at all).
The Crisis Suit's drones are part of the unit, but the multitracker only allows the wearer to target a different target than the rest of the unit. So the gun drones have to shoot at whatever the rest of the unit shoots at.
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"The last known instance of common sense happened at a GT. A player tried to use the 'common sense' argument vs. Mauleed to justify his turbo-boosted bikes getting a saving throw vs. Psycannons. The player's resulting psychic death scream erased common sense from the minds of 40k players everywhere. " - Ozymandias |
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2006/03/16 20:42:08
Subject: RE: Multi-Trackers, Target Locks, and Marker Lights?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I assume you talk about the pathfinder or a firewarrior shas'ui team leader.
They can have both their gun, a markerligth and a hard-wired multitracker. The hard-wired multitracker is part of the infantry wargear list. the list indicate that they are used in the same way as the battlesuit wargear list. the battlesuit wargear list indicate that a model may fire 2 weapon in the same turn. Models use a markerligth as a weapon as indicate by the markerligth rules. So a pathfinder or a firewarrior can fire both his gun and the markerligth if they have also the hard-wired multitracker
There is not anymore a line indicating that firewarrior do not benefit from multitracker and the markerligth rule does not contain anymore the part about "instead of their other weapon" after the sentence that indicate that they fire the markerligth as a weapon . So I think in the new rules it can be done.
The stealth team leader may benefit with the same logic.
So with the new rules there is nothing that I have seen up to now that keep us from firing the markerligth and the pulse rifle or pulse carbine
For the crisis suit. The drone controller indicate only that the drone controller is a communication hub between his controller and the drones so the unit cannot communicate with the drones. The target lock indicate nothing, the drones section indicate that they need regular orders. We could assume with logic that a model with a target lock will indicate to his drones the same target that he shots or another one but the rules are not clear enough to permit that. So we have to use the least powerful one which is to follow the general shooting rules.
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2006/03/17 00:36:44
Subject: RE: Multi-Trackers, Target Locks, and Marker Lights?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Multi-Trackers = Vehicles moving over 6" can fire, firing more than 1 weapon.
Target Locks = Allows you to fire at a different target then the squad. On a vehicle it allows you to fire at two seperat targets.
Marker Light = Heavy 1 shot that now produces a token.
I believe the Multi-Tracker doesn't work on normal ground pounders. ie Pathfinders and Firewarriors.
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I know the rules. Do you? |
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2006/03/17 01:29:04
Subject: RE: Multi-Trackers, Target Locks, and Marker Lights?
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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The Infantry Wargear section allows some troops to take a hardwired Multi-tracker. The rules refer to the Battlesuit section for a description of its use. In the Battlesuit section, the multi-tracker "enables the model to fire two Battlesuit weapon systems in the same turn."
So, the effect of this wargear is debateable, depending on how you might interpret the strict wording of the rules, the possibility of error by the editor, and the designer's intent. Which might make for a fascinating argument.
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2006/03/17 04:21:07
Subject: RE: Multi-Trackers, Target Locks, and Marker Lights?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Pinon Hills, CA
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Good ol' GW just made yet another poor assumption...oh welll...
Also, bigchris1313, I think you might have the function of the Target Lock and Multi-tracker mixed up, at least as far as their functioning on Crisis suits (and potentially Fire Warrior and Pathfinder Shas'uis)...
CaptAnderton, you are definitely muddying the waters - Multi-trackers on vehicles do an entirely different thing...oh well.
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"Plant more 'shrooms ladz, wez runn'n outta boyz" - RussWakelin, Grand Inquisitor |
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2006/03/17 06:05:01
Subject: RE: Multi-Trackers, Target Locks, and Marker Lights?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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the infantry wargear section has something about the battlesuit wargear that indicate they work on infantry. This must be read together with the hard-wired multitracker to fully understand it but I don't have my codex with me rigth now
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2006/03/17 06:30:13
Subject: RE:Multi-Trackers, Target Locks, and Marker Lights?
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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It says if you give an FCW a multi-tracker, he can fire two Battlesuit weapon systems per turn. That's what it says.
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2006/03/17 07:04:31
Subject: RE: Multi-Trackers, Target Locks, and Marker Lights?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Pinon Hills, CA
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Hmmm....that's interesting!
Since a Fire Warrior Shas'ui Team Leader cannot carry any Battlesuit weapon systems, we are therefore forced to the conclusion that the Team Leader has to have legal weapons to fire...he must therefore fire the weapons on other XV8 crisis suits using his own LOS and range. Quite powerful!
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"Plant more 'shrooms ladz, wez runn'n outta boyz" - RussWakelin, Grand Inquisitor |
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2006/03/17 07:23:56
Subject: RE: Multi-Trackers, Target Locks, and Marker Lights?
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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The Infantry Armoury section says (by reference to the Battlesuit Armoury section); the multi-tracker "enables the model to fire two Battlesuit weapon systems in the same turn."
This could be read various ways:
1. As FCW don't have battlesuit weapons, the wargear is of no use.
2. The Shas'ui is enabled to fire the weapons on a Battlesuit somewhere on the table.
3. As they are "enabled" it doesn't matter if the FCW have battlesuit weapons or not, they can fire two per turn if they have a multi-tracker. They are magically imbued with whatever two weapons they happen to want that turn.
4. It's another GW editing foul-up, and what they meant was that the FCW is enabled to fire two of his own weapons in a turn. This could only mean a Markerlight and pulse weapon.
I think it's 4.
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2006/03/17 07:28:33
Subject: RE: Multi-Trackers, Target Locks, and Marker Lights?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Pinon Hills, CA
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Obviously #4!
I extrapolated on the possibility of #2 solely for the humour.
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"Plant more 'shrooms ladz, wez runn'n outta boyz" - RussWakelin, Grand Inquisitor |
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2006/03/17 10:45:01
Subject: RE: Multi-Trackers, Target Locks, and Marker Lights?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Bah, here I am at work with no Codex.... but the Shas'ui with HW Multi-tracker was fairly easy if you find the hidden phrase that answers it. I know there was something in there that specified this pretty clearly, I believe it was a margin note, saying that a Non-battlesuit Shas'ui cannot fire two weapons during a turn even with the upgrade, and that it's useless to even spend the points. I'll look for it tonight when I get home.
-Hans
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I hate making signatures:
Mainly because my sense of humor is as bad as my skill at this game. |
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2006/03/17 10:50:40
Subject: RE: Multi-Trackers, Target Locks, and Marker Lights?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
St. George, UT
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I'd agree that the intention was probably #4. But I find the others amusing as well, especially #2.
I'm really liking the idea of an on foot 6 man FW squad with all carbines, a Shas'el with markerlight and marker light drone. Might just add in a multitracker if its not too many points (and possible).
Having two marker lights in the same unit will be great for first and second turn seeker missiles. You can expect one hit from the two of them. It might help pull some of the heat from the pathfinders, and give you more options for those first two critical rounds of seeker missile shooting.
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2006/03/17 14:38:45
Subject: RE: Multi-Trackers, Target Locks, and Marker Lights?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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now I have the codex with me. The sentence that i was searching was "hard-wired systems allow tau without battlesuit to benefit from some support systems normally only monted on battlesuit". Not very clear but this is was with that sentence the GW indicate that infantry can use those system.
the first part of the multitracker indicate that it is mount often on a battlesuit shoulder. And they continue the next sentence with the word battlesuit again
This is not very overpowered because it is a normal markerligth that cannot be used right now by the unit. So a firewarrior with a target lock and a multt-tracker will often fire elsewhere than his unit and it is not sure that he will benefit from firing his pulse rifle or pulse carbine if the markerligth is fired at a vehicle with an armor value too high or out of range of his gun while the markerligth touch. the only effect that apply rigth now is sending a seeker missile
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2006/03/17 19:56:29
Subject: RE: Multi-Trackers, Target Locks, and Marker Lights?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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After further review, I have come to the conclusion that a FW Shas'ui team leader or Shas'vre would not be able to fire both the markerlight and pulse rifle on the same turn. P.18 "The multi-tracker enables the wearer to fire two weapon systems in the same turn. Normal Fire warriors would gain no benefit from this upgrade, as they cannot carry two weapons"
P.19 The Tau markerlight is listed under 'Wargear' not under 'weapons'. The exact text says "use markerlights AS a weapon" but nowhere does it state that it IS a weapon.
p.17, P.19, P.32 all have lists of weapons, none of them show the markerlight as a weapon option for Firewarriors, Crisis Suits or the Tau in general.
My conclusion is that the markerlight is not a weapon and thus not subject to benefit from the HW Multi-tracker. So if it's an XV15 suit, Ethereal or Firewarrior Shas'Ui who are all able to take the upgrade..... it's still useless. Now, this may change with the new codex, but as the original question was in relation to the original one, I will stand by this until the new one is available. At that time, I will re-evaluate it and how the markerlight is listed under 'wargear' or 'weapons'
-Hans
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I hate making signatures:
Mainly because my sense of humor is as bad as my skill at this game. |
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2006/03/17 21:15:50
Subject: RE: Multi-Trackers, Target Locks, and Marker Lights?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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the multitracker has no mention anymore that firewarrior have no benefit.
the wargear and weapon are under the same list in the armoury but there is a list of wargear and the markerligth is not there. The markerligth is in the weapon list in the weapon summary p48. The skyray indicate the the 2 network markerligth are counted as defensive weapons. So in the new codex the is no doubt that the markerligth is a weapon
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2006/03/19 11:22:03
Subject: RE: Multi-Trackers, Target Locks, and Marker Lights?
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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The new codex is (amazingly!) totally unclear as regards layout and definitions of rules.
The Infantry Armoury is a separate section which contains only Wargear. There's no heading to identify what appears from its content to be a definition of Infantry wargear.
EMP grenades are in the wargear section but photon grenades aren't, though they are both mentioned in the FCW Troops entry.
Markerlights are boxed out separately, but have the profile of a weapon.
The whole thing is a confusing mess. Standard GW, really...
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