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Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Revisiting my zombie minigun idiot question?

Just watched this, which demonstrates that the rounds this particular shooter pumps out can penetrate a car - but not through the engine block.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIlwHT4IdRc

Seems it might be capable of greater continuous round penetration when it’s shooting up manky rotting corpses and that?

The other points about needing a stable platform, and a super short burst timing stand. But I feel I need to challenge the “pass through three or four” point.

Not confidentially challenge like. Just “but if it could do A, what would it do to B” challenge.

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Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
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That's a great channel btw.

I think, and I could be wrong, that the penetration power is related more to the specific cartridge then rate of fire. The M134 fires a 7.62x51mm NATO round. From what I can find it comes in 147 and 175 grain. That's nothing crazy.

Sharing this silly gun featured on Forgotten Weapons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9bULArrKs4

Also, I just shot a Sig Sauer P250 .40 S&W and hated it. I don't know if anyone else has fired that specific model, but the trigger pull felt very weird to me.
Edit: It also ejected the fething casings right back into me...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/26 02:34:02


The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Funny story, I was in Oregon a year ago and a gun store had a Zip22 for sale there. $200, included the big sickle mag and a bunch of accessories.

 trexmeyer wrote:


I think, and I could be wrong, that the penetration power is related more to the specific cartridge then rate of fire.


It's... complicated. The ballistics of a projectile are determined by a lot of different factors.

Powder Charge, Bullet Weight, Bullet type, etc... are determined by the specific cartridge. The same caliber can have many different cartridge variations though. Some might have more power/less powder, different types of bullets, different weights of bullets, different types of powder, etc...

Then the firearm itself can have an effect on the ballistics. The main factor being length of the barrel, but rifling twist type can also have an effect. Generally, the longer the barrel the better stabilization you'll have on the bullet. But you can also have more complete powder burn, which means more energy is transferred to the bullet. A shorter barrel on the other hand, might mean that a good amount of the powder is wasted because by the time it finishes burning the bullet has long since left the barrel.

Say you have a bolt action rifle of some kind. Usually they have 20+ inch barrels. They impart a very large amount of the energy in their powder charges to the bullet because of that long barrel giving time for the powder to burn while the bullet is traveling down the barrel. But if you take the same rifle and cut it down to say, a 5 inch barrel(yes, people do do this. Look up Mobrez on youtube), you now have very little time for the powder to burn before the bullet leaves the barrel. The amount of energy lost when this occurs is so great that in some cases the bullet would actually become non-lethal beyond a few meters. You've basically turned the rifle into a flashbang gun, even though you're using the same ammo that with a longer barrel has lethal range of several kilometers.

Shorter barrels generally = less power assuming all else is equal because of the lost energy. You'll have a lot of muzzle flash from the excess powder burning outside the muzzle but that is about it.

How short you can make a barrel before this occurs depends on the cartridge in question too. 7.62x39 is less susceptible to a drop off in ballistics with a shorter barrel than 5.56x45 is for example. The cartridge generally has complete powder burn even with a shorter barrel. Which is why AKs with 12" or even 8" barrels still can have very reasonable range when compared to a normal 16" barrel. But you have a 8" barrel on an AR15 and you'll have much more drop off compared to a normal AR15.

Penetration specifically seems to be most effected by the speed of a projectile. A very fast small projectile tends to penetrate better than a large slow moving projectile. E=MC^2 also shows that velocity has twice the effect on energy as mass does. So X increase in Velocity is twice as effective as X increase in mass at increasing the energy.

But raw on-paper energy is one thing, actual practice is another. It is one thing to have the energy, but you have to actually transfer that energy to the target to do damage. And it turns out that slower projectiles are more efficient at transferring their energy to a target because they spend more time in contact with it as they pass through it.

For example, a 5.56 projectile traveling through a block of ballistic gel will carve a neat little hole in it. If its a hollow point it might spread out slightly, but it will generally make a small neat hole all the way through(assuming something like a 5-6 inch block). If it is a FMJ bullet it is definitely going to just pass clean through.

Compare that to a .45 ACP bullet in the same gel. Even a FMJ bullet is going to gouge a massive hole, deform, and create even bigger wound channels. Much much more damage to the gel, even though the 5.56 on paper has over 3 times the muzzle energy. Make it a hollow point and it's gonna be very messy indeed. It may not even penetrate all the way through, which actually will be even more damaging because that means 100% of the bullet's energy was absorbed.

But if we change the target to say a 1/8" sheet of mild steel, the 5.56 will pass right through it, while the .45 ACP will just go splat. It'll make a big dent for sure, but it won't go through with one shot.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/27 05:02:55


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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Denison, Iowa

I have a Zip 22. What a cluster of a gun. Pretty unergonomic, but okay for someone with huge hands like me.

If this thing would have actually worked reliably I think it would have sold well. Unfortunately I needed to tear mine down, change the springs, polish everything to a high sheen, and widen the breech a bit and dump a ton of powdered graphite into it just to get it to feed 10 rounds in a row from a standard 10-22 mag.


I will say this though, it was accurate. If it fed reliably it would have been my backpacking pistol of choice, which is why I bought it.
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

It is kinda shocking how someone could mess up a .22 pistol design so badly.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
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Denison, Iowa

 Grey Templar wrote:
It is kinda shocking how someone could mess up a .22 pistol design so badly.


In theory I kinda liked it. It marks a lot of what I am looking for in a backpack gun and a random plinker. Cheap, 22LR, not that heavy, accurate, and takes 10-22 mags. Sure, it's ugly as sin, but I can overlook that. If that weapon actually had anything close to reliability I'd have loved it. I think the five issues that made it suck were: 1. you are NOT supposed to use oil on it, and almost no one seems to understand that. 2. ejection port is too small. Opening that up would have aided in not having jams. 3. There wasn't quite enough force in the ejection of a shell casing. 4. It was picky about ammo. 5. Reciprocal rate was WAY too high. I think that last one was the major hang up as most mags wouldn't lift the next round fast enough. If they would have been able to slow the cycle down to around 60% of what it is misfeeds would have been less.
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Zip 22?

I understand why Orks don’t believe a gun will do damage unless it looks and sounds like it will.

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Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Yup. That is basically its main problems. Way too high fire rate meaning mags can't feed reliably combined with having no ejector mechanism beyond hoping the shell bounces out. If they had added something to delay its cycling and added any kind of ejector it would have been way better. Even a simple tab and maybe stronger springs would have been enough.

You would probably have better results by converting it to bolt action.

If I was to design a cheapo .22 out of cheap plastic that fed from standard 10-22 mags, I would have made it manually cycled. Maybe via Lever Action.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
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Fixture of Dakka




CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

Little .38



And what is it used for?



Critter was headed to the duck coop to snatch eggs. The coop is just 20 or so feet from the front pond, which allows us to let the ducks out to swim/play. I had the ducks out was chilling, watching them play in the water when I saw this guy.

We keep the .38 loaded with snake shot. It usually sits in my wife's waist pack she wears when out feeding the animals.

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Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 CptJake wrote:

Critter was headed to the duck coop to snatch eggs. The coop is just 20 or so feet from the front pond, which allows us to let the ducks out to swim/play. I had the ducks out was chilling, watching them play in the water when I saw this guy.

We keep the .38 loaded with snake shot. It usually sits in my wife's waist pack she wears when out feeding the animals.



You know, the funny thing is, my sister in law freaked out when my mother was teaching my nephew to just grab them and throw them in the river.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
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I….I can’t imagine why!

So, what’s Snake Shot when it’s at home? I’m imaging something closer to a shotgun cartridge than a bullet?

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CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence



Yep, tiny shot shells for the revolver. You typically don't want to use them in a semi-automatic as they'll jam.

Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
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Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I….I can’t imagine why!


Snakes are snakes. Don't have to kill them to deal with them. Now, Mountain Lions, bears, and foxes, those are problems best solved with bullets. Snake you can just toss away. Even venomous ones can't bite you if you just get them right behind the head, though it's smart to take a few precautions like using a branch or tool to hold their heads down. Put them in a bag, then take them someplace they're not going to bother anything, and let them go.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
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Denison, Iowa

My uncle used to kill snakes by spitting his chewing tobacco on their faces. Something in it snakes can't handle, like chocolate with dogs, but worse. My uncle became a spitting sniper.
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 cuda1179 wrote:
My uncle used to kill snakes by spitting his chewing tobacco on their faces. Something in it snakes can't handle, like chocolate with dogs, but worse. My uncle became a spitting sniper.


While I'm sure that plenty of snakes are irritated by being spat on, it's entirely untrue that tobacco harms snakes. Maybe it was his breath?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/08 19:44:52



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

I would never test my luck by trying to grab a venomous snake behind the head with my hands. At most, I would use a very long stick to keep it as far away as possible while moving it. Maybe some grabbers.

Of course, if its not bothering me or anybody I'd just leave it be.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






UK

A good day on the range yesterday, had my Martini-Henry out:


   
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Annandale, VA

Oh, that's lovely. Is it still the case that necking down brass 20ga hulls is the best way to load? Or have you found a source of loaded ammo?

   
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

That's gorgeous, looks like a lot of fun!

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UK

catbarf wrote:Oh, that's lovely. Is it still the case that necking down brass 20ga hulls is the best way to load? Or have you found a source of loaded ammo?


Yes, all my brass is resized shotgun shells, processed by a guy locally. It's a bit labour-intensive compared to other reloading, with wads, carded wool filler, plus paper-patching the bullets, but it's worth it

Vaktathi wrote:That's gorgeous, looks like a lot of fun!


Always nice to make some smoke, until it's time to clean it later

   
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That is a pretty one Slinky...like daaaaaamn.

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I appreciate the appropriate headgear.

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Jovial Junkatrukk Driver





Angloland

Nice to come back to the forum after a few years to see this thread still going

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Elverson, PA

After a lot of consideration and meticulous planning (it was an impulse buy), I got myself a Kimber Custom 2. Had some...issues breaking it in, but now that its running steady, I'm thinking about shooting USPSA with it.

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Seneca Nation of Indians

 Daemonhammer wrote:
Nice to come back to the forum after a few years to see this thread still going


With many of the same people.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

That is a nice looking pistol.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
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UK

Very pretty!

   
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Fings wot I learned from this video.




1. Idiot laughter because guns can be fun.

2. Bullet fragments are a thing. I mean, as already covered my laughable knowledge mostly stems from pop culture, where Freedom Seeds just bounce off, landing squished but whole. I’m surprisingly not actually surprised they shatter.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

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Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Yeah, though it depends on the individual bullet and what it is made of how much it will fragment. Bullets that are made only of lead will absolutely fragment significantly. Bullets that are a lead core surrounded by a copper jacket(like most bullets are nowdays) will fragment less, though it depends on what they hit. A hard surface like concrete, steel, or titanium iron man armor will definitely result in them shattering.

This is why modern body armor plates are usually coated in some sort of rubber/plastic and worn inside plate carriers that might also be made out of kevlar. The kevlar and rubber/plastic will catch and trap the bullet fragments and any spalling from the armor plates to prevent further injury to the wearer.

Generally, it is unlikely that a bullet will remain in one piece, even if it only hits squishy flesh. You have to have bullets that are specifically designed to stay intact, something like a specially designed solid copper expanding head hunting round.

These are some of the bullets I load for my .458 socom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtvkSHrYrn4

Only reason these bullets will sometimes remain in 1 piece is because they are solid copper. A composite bullet made of two different metals, like a lead core with a copper jacket, is more likely to fragment slightly. Most ammunition is lead core with a copper jacket.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/22 00:03:31


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

Also of note, there are rounds that are completely on the other end of the spectrum. I want to say they are made of compressed graphite, but don't quote me on that. They don't exactly fragment, but re-powderize on impact. They were developed specifically for police during hostage situations.
   
 
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