Switch Theme:

2K Competitive - Epidemius-Nurgle Chaos Marines vs Hive Fleet Janthkin (Completed)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Finally got to play a game against Janthkin once again. Janthkin is a very good tyranid player, probably the best in our area. He always gives me a good fight, whether it be with his bugs or his crons. We've played a few times in 6th Edition.

First there was my necrons against his bugs in our very first 6th Edition battle: 07/06/12 - 1st 6th Ed. Battle - 1999 Wraithwing Tesla Crons vs Janthkin's Tyranids

Then, I brought my Grey Knight Striker foot-list against his necrons: 08/25/12 - 1500 Jy2's Grey Knight Horde vs Janthkin's Necrons - BAO Scenarios

Finally, we had a role reversal of our very first game. This time, I brought bugs and Janthkin brough his crons: 10/28/12 - The NecroNid Wars III - 2K Hive Fleet Pandora (Tyranids) vs Janthkin's Balanced Necrons

Now, the saga continues. I brought my new Epidemius Nurgle Space Marines and Janthkin brought a variation of his bug list, now with more gargoyles!

By the ways, did you know that Kevin (aka Janthkin) is ranked #5 on RankingsHQ.com? That is quite an accomplishmen indeed.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


2000 Jy2's Epidemius-Nurgle Chaos Marines vs Hive Fleet Janthkin


2000 Tyranids


BTW, Kevin forgot his Swarmlord so is using mine. He is also borrowing some of my gargoyles.

Swarmlord
Flyrant - 2x TL-Devourers (Warlord)

Doom of Ma'lantai - Mycetic Spore
3x Hive Guards
3x Zoanthropes

13x Genestealers - Toxin Sacs
Tervigon - Adrenal Glands, Catalyst, Cluster Spines, Toxin Sacs, Crushing Claws
10x Termagants
Tervigon - Adrenal Glands, Catalyst, Cluster Spines, Toxin Sacs
10x Termagants

17x Gargoyles - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
16x Gargoyles - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs



2000 Chaos Space Marines-Daemons (My list)


My Nurgle army is getting closer to completion.

Typhus
Epidemius

22x Zombie Cultists
22x Zombie Cultists
5x Plague Marines - 2x Plasmas
5x Plague Marines - 2x Plasmas
5x Plague Marines - 2x Plasmas
5x Plaguebearers

5x Chaos Spawn - Mark of Nurgle
Heldrake

3x Obliterators - Mark of Nurgle, Veterans of the Long War
3x Obliterators - Mark of Nurgle, Veterans of the Long War

Aegis Defense Line - Quad-guns


Here are 2 new additions to my army (model-wise): Typhus and the zombie cultists.

Also, my new heldrake:




-------------------------------------------------------------------


I will try to get the report out tomorrow (though I do have another game coming up against Grey Therion's Grey Knights).

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/12/09 17:11:07



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

My pre-game thoughts:

I'm very interested in this match-up. Not only are all my games with Jim tactically intense and a lot of fun, but I'm also getting my Emperor's Children, on hiatus since late 4th edition, back into a playable condition. I'm betting Jim can show me some interesting tricks with his CSMs, even if they are all covered in pus.

And I think he'll need tricks, too. Tyranids, particularly psychic-heavy Tyranids, can be really nasty these days. Jim and I have some ongoing disagreeements on a few units in the codex (I like gargoyles more; he stumps for biovores), but neither of us is in doubt as to the overall strength of the codex. You can keep your allies - Tyranids will devour you all by themselves!

Unless you're playing Venom-spam. Then they'll go cry in a corner somewhere.

Looking at Jim's list, I'm not sure where the killing will come from. Yes, yes, I understand the Tally - but even there, under the best possible circumstances, I just don't see the offensive output necessary to get through waves of Termagants & Gargoyles. If he can focus some Tally'd-up units on my big bugs, that could be annoying, I suppose.

On a purely list-based analysis, here's how it looks to me:
Mobility: No question at all; Tyranid advantage. Aside from the Helldrake and Spawn, Chaos has none, and most of his models can't even Run.
Durability: Split-decision, I think. Chaos has 44 Fearless, FNP Zombies; Tyranids have 33 gargoyles & 20 + random Termagants, likely with the option to spread FNP around, too. If I get a few Enfeebles in my psychic deck, this shifts to a Tyranid advantage - T1 Zombies don't get to use FNP, after all.
Scoring units: Advantage Tyranids. I have a minimum of 7 scoring units, likely 8-9, and can afford to spread them out; Chaos can't afford to spread out too much, or he'll get devoured in detail.
Shooting: Chaos, as usual. Mine is not a shooty Tyranid list. But it's not like we're looking at max Long Fang Space Wolves, here - if I can contain one of those Oblit units, to keep him from Focus Firing my big bugs to death, I'll deal with the rest.
Assault: Tyranids, by a wide margin. Yes, yes, the Tally makes Plague marines something closer to useful, but most of my Assault elements don't really care about lost armor saves - it's about drowning the enemy in poisonous expendable bodies. The genestealers give me an elite edge that I usually can't afford.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/07 16:52:45


Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Chaos Space Marines: (by Jy2)
I've played tyranids a few times already with my CSM and each time, it's been a tough fight. CSM really matches up bad against the bugs without dual-lash. I feel that my chaos marines will be the underdog here again. Why? Because Kevin has got just too many bodies and I'm going to have a hard time fighting through them to get to his juicier targets. And even if I get through his screening units, he's got the Swarmlord there waiting. My zombies really don't have staying power against Enfeeble (bye bye FNP) and especially don't have the killing power to get past his gribblies. If I don't make the push forwards, I will be stuck in my deployment zone and all he has to do is to swarm the objectives.

Kevin has a distinct advantage and that is almost all his guys have poisoned attacks. My high toughness isn't going to mean anything. On top of that, 1 or 2 applications of Enfeeble and that means I won't have FNP as well. Now some of my guys have poisoned attacks as well. Problem is, his 2 HQ's have higher initiatives and will be striking first. BTW, I play it as:

1. Noxious Touch only benefits the units who are actual daemons. When a rule is controversial, I oftentimes go for the more conservative ruling. For those who disagree, then just consider this our houserule for the game.

2. Cannot assault the quad-gun just by itself. My intepretation is that you can only charge "enemy" units. The quad-gun is not an enemy unit. You can only assault it if there is an enemy unit nearby and you declare the charge on that enemy unit. Then you can try to pile into the gun as well to attack it.

Despite the dilemma I face, I have 2 distinct advantages:

1. With the number of gribblies he has, I should be able to get the Tally up fast and early (assuming Epidemius comes in on Turn 1). As a matter of fact, I'm expecting to max it out by Turn 2 unless my opponent plays the denial game....but that really isn't his style.

2. This isn't really much of an advantage, but we are playing Big Guns Never Tire. That means my oblits are scoring and I have 8 scoring units. At least I can compete with Kevin in the scoring department.

Finally, my opponent has an X-factor in the game....the Doom of Ma'lantai. I'm afraid I really don't have much of an answer for him. He's going to get his. I'm just going to have to take it. Looking towards to a tough and challenging game. This will be a really good test.


Tyranids: (by Janthkin)
See above.



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in be
Power-Hungry Cultist of Tzeentch





Cant wait for this matchup , its very similar to the games i play against my brother (he has tyranids i have csm) and they ussually end up as really close and intense games . rooting for csm though The almighty father of pestilence will prevail!



You mean the Arsestronomican? -Avatar 720 
   
Made in us
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






Glad to see that you are trying out those chaos spawn of nurgle, I feel after this you may want a second unit. They are very mobile and durable this edition although I have to admit this is a tougher opponent for them with the psychic powers and poison attacks. Still not even smash attacks ID them without enfeeble

   
Made in us
Battleship Captain






Chaos marines have the fire power to deal with waves of junk, which should make the deamons very good with the tally. It will be close, and come down to move rather then dice. I am looking forward to how the game goes, who knows maybe you will make a few witch saves.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/07 18:26:39


 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Sniper Drone




Portland, Oregon

Chaos is gonna have a rough time of it here with all those psykers and poison. I'll be cheering for them though, nice to see spawn making an appearance in your list.
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





The Eternity Gate

Chaos pros: the tally is easy to wrack up, fairly squishy enemy outside of their HQs.

Nid pros: lotsa poison, good numbers, enemy is MSU and special weapon heavy.

Should be interesting. I think the helldrake will make or break the game if it can survive as once the flyrant is gone nothing will be able to touch it reasonably.

01001000 01100001 01101001 01101100 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01001110 01100101 01100011 01110010 01101111 01101110 00100000 01101111 01110110 01100101 01110010 01101100 01101111 01110010 01100100 01110011 00100001  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: Big Guns Never Tire - 5x Objectives


Deployment: Vanguard


Initiative: Tyranids


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:

Spoiler:

Map of the terrain. We would end up switching out the center terrain for a LOS-blocking terran.


My 3 objectives.


My Aegis Defense Line.


The 2 tyranid objectives.

Tyranid psychic powers:

Swarmlord: Invisibility, Puppet Master, 2 Biomancy powers
Flyrant #1: Iron Arm,
Doom: Psychic Shriek
Tervigon #1 (w/Claws):
Tervigon #2: Codex powers
Zoan #1:
Zoan #2:
Zoan #3:

Warlord traits: nothing useful.


Tyranid deployment. Doom and 1 unit of termagants in reserves.


Chaos deployment. Heldrake and daemons in reserves.


Kevin then infiltrates his genestealers to the left (my left).

I fail to seize the initiative and we begin.




-------------------------------------------------------------------


Tyranids 1

Spoiler:
Tyranids cast psychic powers, including Invisibiility on the rear gargoyles and FNP on the genestealers.


Bugs advance.


Flyrant shoots down 2 plague marines. Bugs run.




Chaos 1

Spoiler:

Epidemius comes in. He takes a wound to dangerous terrain.


Chaos advance up to the Aegis. Chaos spawn comes in from the flanks and prepare for an assault.


Shooting is rather poor. Left oblits (assault cannons) and plague marines fire at the stealers out in the open and only kill 3. Oblits on the right (assault cannons as well) and plague marines 8 gargoyles. Damn aegis actually giving those gargoyles 4+ cover!

Typhus fails to cast Plague Wind due to Shadows.


Chaos spawn then assault the rear, invisible gargoyles. Even though I am hitting them on 5's due to Invisibility, I don't want them crashing into my lines.

Typhus and zombies fail their charge due to the Aegis (i.e. difficult terrain). At this point, my Aegis Defense Line is helping my opponent more than it is helping me!

I also make another mistake. I was intending to assault my other zombie squad into his gargoyles but used them to fire the quad-guns first. However, the quad-guns is a heavy weapon, thus preventing my zombies from charging. Doh!


In any case, spawns get 7 attacks each on the charge due to Rage. Despite needing 5's to hit, I roll slightly below average and only kill 5. Gargoyles, in turn, kill off 1 spawn.

Tally count: 16




Tyranids 2

Spoiler:
More tyranid psychic powers, including Invisibility on his flyrant and Enfeeble on Typhus' unit. Termagants come in from reserves and go to claim an objective.


The Doom lands dead-on and is in range of practically my entire army. Uh oh....this is going to hurt.


Flyrant glides, going after the oblits.


The rest of the bugs advance. Swarmy will help out against the chaos spawn.


His other gants go after his other objective.


The Doom hurts more more than I can imagine. Somehow my zombies are ok, but I lose 2.5 oblits and 5 plague marines! The Doom has just more than doubled his cost in points back!


He then uses Psychic Shriek on my other squad of oblits and kill another 2 oblits! WTF!!!


Hive guards then shoot down my single left oblit, giving my opponent First Blood.


Here's a very nasty trick. First you Enfeeble a unit - my zombies - to get them down to T2. This also takes away their FNP from most normal shooting. Then you cast Hemorrhage on them, causing them to keep losing guys until they pass a Toughness test....

In any case, psychic shenanigans (those tyranids!), cluster spines from the tervigons and gargoyle shooting kill a total of 11 and 2 zombies.


My last oblit then fails Morale and flees. Aaargh!!!


As if that wasn't bad enough, genestealers assault my plague marines and wipe them out.


Gargoyles assault Typhus' unit....


....and just 1 of them survives to tie me up on MY turn!

At least I max out my Tally thanks to Typhus.


Swarmy assaults into the spawns.


He would insta-kill 2 spawns and then break away from combat because he could not pile into it. Gargoyles wound a spawn 2x. The spawns, who get 4+ armour saves this turn from their Mutated Attacks, kill 4 gargoyles in return.

That was simply a very brutal turn for me. Basically, I am crippled and my goal now is simply just to survive a potential tabling by my opponent.




Chaos 2

Spoiler:

Overview of the bottom of Turn 2.


Heldrake comes in and vector strikes his Warlord (the flyrant), putting 2W on him.


Epidemius moves. Gosh, he is just so darn slow.


Chaos movement. I get away from the Doom. My oblit regroups.


I lose 4 zombies to the Doom's Spirit Leech power.


Heldrake burns 4 stealers to death.

Obliterator trie to insta-kill the Doom but misses because he can only snap-fire this turn (due to regrouping).


Plague marines shoot at the flyrant, doing nothing, and then assault it. Keep in mind that now all my Nurgle attacks (including shooting) ignore armour saves and my plague marines have 3+ FNP.


The flyrant then challenges my sargeant and kills him with a Smash attack.


Tyhpus' unit finishes off the lone gargoyle. However, I don't consolidate far enough to get entirely behind the ADL for some protection.


I am down to just 1 chaos spawn with 1W left.


Last but not least, 2 genestealers continue to burn to death due to Soul Blaze.




Tyranids 3

Spoiler:

Overview of the top of Turn 3.


Tyranid movement. Bugs go in for the kill.


1 plague marine dies to the Doom's power....


....as well as 4 zombies.


Doom and the tervigon both then assault Typhus' unit. Fortunately for me, Swarmy fails his assault, getting only 4" and needing about 5".


Genestealers and tervigon assault my 2nd squad of zombies.


They wipe out the zombies and the gargoyles kill off the last spawn.


The Doom challenges Typhus and tries to insta-kill him with S10 attacks but fails. In turn, Typhus also fails to get through the Doom's 3++ Invuln. Tervigon kills 4 zombies.

The flyrant fails to finish off my plague marine with a Smash attack.


Haha. 1 more stealer dies to Soul Blaze.




Chaos 3

Spoiler:

Chaos movement. I don't have much left. Oblit gets out of LOS of the bugs.


With not much of a target, the oblit insta-pops the mycetic spore.


Typhus finally manages to successfully wound the Doom in combat....but then fails to activate his force weapon due to Shadows. Tervigon continues to squish zombies who can't hurt it (due to Enfeeble).

Flyrant whiffs again against my lone plague marine. I whiff in return and they remain stuck.


Finally, Soul Blaze claims another stealer.




Tyranids 4

Spoiler:

Overview of the top of Turn 4.


Tervigon spawns gants for the very first time this game. He doesn't roll doubles.


The other tervigon spawns 15 gants, who spread out. Bugs enfeeble my 2 plague marines.


Tyranid movement.


Cluster spines from his tervigon scatters back onto his gants, killing 2.


Genestealers then assault my plague marines. We both whiff against each other. I swear, my plague marines cannot hit the broad side of a barn.


Gants assault Epidemius' unit.


Swarmy charges into Typhus' combat.


Fortunately for me, he fails to intervene into the challenge between Typhus and the Doom. That gives me one more chance to try to kill it (the Doom)....which I don't. Swarmy and the tervigon finish off all the zombies.


Plaguebearers kill off 5 gants.


His Warlord finally finishes off my plague marine.




Chaos 4

Spoiler:

Heldrake goes after the gants on his objective. My goal, besides to try to avoid getting tabled, is to also try to lose by less. Don't know if that makes any sense at this point, but I guess you can attribute it to gamer's pride or something.


Chaos movement. Yup, that means just the oblit moves.


Helturkey incinerates 4 gants....but they are just fractions of an inch within synapse of his tervigon. Sigh....

I shoot at his Warlord with a lascannon from my oblit but miss.


Plaguebearers kill some gants and then sweep the unit. They were just barely out of range of synapse.


Swarmy cannot intervene into the challenge until his turn. Combat remains a stalemate.




Tyranids 5

Spoiler:

Overview of the top of Turn 5.


Tyranid movement. Gants go after the oblit. Gargoyles go to help out the 2 stealers. Flyrant glides to get rear shots at my helturkey.


Tervigon spawns another 13 gants without rolling doubles. I deny for the very first time one of his psychic powers - Enfeeble on Epidemius' unit.


Gants put 1W on my obliterator. They then attempt to charge but fail.


Shooting puts down another 1 plaguebearer.


Between poor shooting and my 5++ Invuln, the flyrant fails to do any damage to my flyer. However, he didn't need to. One lucky shot from his hive guard and he blows it up.


Gants assault....


....and only Epidemius remains.


Gargoyles assault the plague marines. Plagues actually win combat, killing 2 gargoyles.


Finally, Swarmlord intercedes into the challenge and easily finishes off Typhus.




Chaos 5

Spoiler:

There will be no hiding. I will be going out in a blaze of glory and I will be taking down his Warlord, the flyrant, with me. I believe his Warlord has only 1W remaining.

Unfortunately....my oblit misses yet again!


I lose a plague marine to the Doom....


....but kill 1 genestealer in assault.


Epidemius survives with just 1W left!


The dice gods then take pity on Chaos and end the game with a before I could get tabled.


-------------------------------------------------------------------



Aftermath of the battle.

My opponent has his 2 objectives and every conceivable bonus point that he could get. And what did I get? Thoroughly spanked is what I got.




Crushing Victory to Hive Fleet Janthkin!!!





-------------------------------------------------------------------


POST-GAME ANALYSIS:

Spoiler:
Chaos Space Marines: (by Jy2)
The use of the Aegis Defense Line backfired on me this game. While it did give me some protection from his shooting, it actually helped my opponent more than it helped me. How?

1. It gave his gribblies 4+ cover as well from my shooting.

2. It encouraged my guys to bunch up, thus giving the Doom a lot of targets.

3. It slowed down my assaults, preventing Typhus' unit from assaulting the gargoyles.

4. I was intending to use it to protect my guys from his assault. However, after wiping out the gargoyles, my zombies couldn't consolidate far enough behind it for protection. Thus, a few zombies were out in the open, letting tervigon and Swarmlord assault them (and make the assault).

While I like the protection of the ADL and the quad-guns for AA, in this game it was more of a liability than a benefit. I just may try my list without it for a few games to see how I do.

I under-estimated the Doom in this game. It's ironic considering that I myself normally run the Doom. I was willing to let him get his. I just didn't expect his "Tally" to be so exorbitant. Of course it didn't help that my oblits were the only ones to roll high on the 3D6 LD tests and failed 9 out of 10 5++ invuln's, but hey, whatever. The Doom is just such a hard unit to play against. You focus too much firepower on him and you're in trouble because the rest of the tyranid army is assaulting you next turn. You ignore him and he runs rampant. Unfortunately, my army just did not have the offense to deal with both at the same time, especially after losing 5 out of 6 oblits on the turn that he came in.

Kevin's build is solid. I really like the additional gargoyles, though personally I would rather keep my own biovores rather than run 2 units of gargoyles. Barrage sniping is just so useful in this edition. Moreover, just the fact that I have biovores really disrupts my opponent's gameplay, taking them out of their comfort levels by making them play differently from how they normally do. But that is a topic for another thread...

Good game Kevin. But get ready for a rematch, because my Chaos-Nurgle army is coming back stronger and filthier.


Tyranids: (by Janthkin)
After thoughts: Wow, that Doom is quite a brute, isn't he? Turn 2 proved decisive, I think, for a couple of reasons: when Chaos lost their Obliterators, they also lost the ability to seriously threaten anything out of immediate assault range; and when the Beasts hit (and stuck) on the Gargoyles, Chaos lost all their long-range assault elements, too.

But MVP belongs to the Doom, without question. He ate 9 wounds of Obliterators (and a bunch of Plague Marines), plus kept Typhus entertained until Swarmy could get around to dealing with him. Runner-up goes to Chaos' Aegis Defense Line, which saved more Tyranids than Chaos.

This was the most lop-sided game Jim and I have played, I think (perhaps excluding an Apocalypse game); he finished with 3 wounds remaining on the table, and only killed 3 units (a spore pod, a unit of gargoyles, and a unit of spawned 'gants). My opinion of a Tally-based list didn't change in this game - I don't see how they can put out enough damage to seriously inconvenience a Tyranid list, and it only gets worse at lower point levels (like the BAO's 1750). I can see better utility at higher point levels, though - once you pay for the required bones, every additional point gains the benefits of the Tally without paying anything more for the privilege.



This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2012/12/09 20:43:17



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Power-Hungry Cultist of Tzeentch




Cool report so far. One thing though: Zombies are Slow and Purposeful - meaning they definitely could've assaulted after firing the Quad-Gun.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

GameFreak975 wrote:
Cool report so far. One thing though: Zombies are Slow and Purposeful - meaning they definitely could've assaulted after firing the Quad-Gun.

Doh! (Not that it would have really affected the outcome.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/09 16:28:59



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






Wow... that was basically the perfect turn for Tyranids. Brutal...


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA



Battle report completed.




6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

After thoughts: Wow, that Doom is quite a brute, isn't he? Turn 2 proved decisive, I think, for a couple of reasons: when Chaos lost their Obliterators, they also lost the ability to seriously threaten anything out of immediate assault range; and when the Beasts hit (and stuck) on the Gargoyles, Chaos lost all their long-range assault elements, too.

But MVP belongs to the Doom, without question. He ate 9 wounds of Obliterators (and a bunch of Plague Marines), plus kept Typhus entertained until Swarmy could get around to dealing with him. Runner-up goes to Chaos' Aegis Defense Line, which saved more Tyranids than Chaos.

This was the most lop-sided game Jim and I have played, I think (perhaps excluding an Apocalypse game); he finished with 3 wounds remaining on the table, and only killed 3 units (a spore pod, a unit of gargoyles, and a unit of spawned 'gants). My opinion of a Tally-based list didn't change in this game - I don't see how they can put out enough damage to seriously inconvenience a Tyranid list, and it only gets worse at lower point levels (like the BAO's 1750). I can see better utility at higher point levels, though - once you pay for the required bones, every additional point gains the benefits of the Tally without paying anything more for the privilege.

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Just a little thing, since Oblits are S&P, they can't overwatch. Awesome report!
   
Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





North Carolina

So im looking at gettng/making an aegis line. It seems they do not do well agaist horde armies. I will post this question in a diff section as well. Im just curious tactically how could this have been averted cuz like you said it helped the nids more than chaos.


"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan - 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

 Ineedvc2500 wrote:
So im looking at gettng/making an aegis line. It seems they do not do well agaist horde armies. I will post this question in a diff section as well. Im just curious tactically how could this have been averted cuz like you said it helped the nids more than chaos.
The Aegis is good for two things:
1) It gives you access to a quad gun, which can be handy against certain foes; and
2) It keeps your casualties down from enemy shooting.

But what it did in this case was encourage jy2 to castle up behind it. The net result was that he was getting in his own way, and ended up so tightly packed that my Cluster Spines & the Doom had a target-rich environment.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Post-game coming up later.


Haemonculus_Jay wrote:
Just a little thing, since Oblits are S&P, they can't overwatch. Awesome report!

Actually, after going back through the game and looking at the pictures, it appears that my oblits didn't actually overwatch the termagants because all his gants were still there.

I'll go back and edit my report.


 Janthkin wrote:
This was the most lop-sided game Jim and I have played, I think (perhaps excluding an Apocalypse game); he finished with 3 wounds remaining on the table, and only killed 3 units (a spore pod, a unit of gargoyles, and a unit of spawned 'gants).

We've had worst, I believe. You tabled my TH/SS FNP assault marine BA and Draigowing before with your nids.


More replies coming a little later.




Automatically Appended Next Post:


Post-game Analysis posted above.


@Janthkin

Thanks for your analysis. I have included it in my post-game above.


 Ineedvc2500 wrote:
So im looking at gettng/making an aegis line. It seems they do not do well agaist horde armies. I will post this question in a diff section as well. Im just curious tactically how could this have been averted cuz like you said it helped the nids more than chaos.

They could give you protection against horde armies. Because to assault through it, the gribblies would be striking at I1 and have to roll for difficult terrain to see if they even make the charge.

However, in my army, usually my zombies are way out in front as a screening unit, with oblits and plagues behind them (I really don't want to put my oblits in the front to be the first ones assaulted). If you play it this way, the ADL will actually give cover to the enemy. I need to adjust my play-style to better utilize the ADL.

Also, 2 things to watch out for when using the ADL. First of all, be careful that you don't get too complacent just staying behind it and shooting. Because in an objectives-based game, you have to advance. Just something you need to consider when playing the ADL.

Secondly, people have a tendency to bunch up (guilty as charged!) to receive the benefits of the ADL. Just keep that in mind when you are playing template/blast heavy armies or against units like the Doom. I took a risk bunching up knowing that the Doom could potentially affect a lot of units and in this game, it didn't pay off.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/09 20:56:03



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Power-Hungry Cultist of Tzeentch




I think Chaos Space Marines of all armies have a lot to gain from the ADL. The Quad-Gun's interceptor/skyfire abilties really helps out in a lot of scenarios. Flakk Missiles on Havocs are useful in some scenarios but they're too expensive for what they put out (Str7, AP4, Heavy 1 isn't good enough to justify the cost).

So that being said, Chaos can afford to load up on autocannons and mass number of shots on their heavy support options like Havocs and Chaos Marines and stick them behind an Aegis Line on the backline and hold an objective. Havocs and Marines will fight off a lot that tries to come near them with their mass quantities of firepower (including the Quad-Gun). Plus, Havocs will be scoring in Big Guns Never Tire, and if you mark them with Nurgle you've got multiple autocannon-wielding T5 scoring marines with 4+ cover and the option to go to ground for a 2+. That's pretty nice.

While ADL marines hold the backline, Chaos can make use of its incredibly durable troops/elites/heavies (Plague Marines, Thousand Sons(who are in fact HAMPERED by cover but shine in the open), Obliterators, FNP Noise Marines) to move up and slam at the enemy. This gives you tons of target saturation and the durability to survive it. Against Horde armies, they'll have to pick who to go after. Playing static with Chaos never really gets you far, but allows the enemy to concentrate on you as they please. If you force them to separate, they'll become less and less effective. 'Nids especially.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/09 21:50:08


 
   
Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





North Carolina

Wonderful analysis!


"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan - 
   
Made in au
Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch




Australia

The rule book does say that the Aegis line consists of UP TO 4 long and 4 short wall segments, each of which must be placed in base contact with another one. It might be worth taking fewer than the full allocation of wall segments in many cases to give yourself more space to move.

2000 pts

Compel wrote:
Because in a universe where the basic weapon is a rocket propelled grenade machine gun, with gigantic battletanks, 5 kilometer long spaceships, huge robots and power armoured supersoldiers, the most powerful guy you want to field on a battlefield is a bloke in a pointy hat carrying a stick. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Eye of Terror

Nidz are looking very strong... Nurgle not much so,


My blog... http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com

Facebook...
https://m.facebook.com/Terminus6Est/

DT:60+S++++G++++M+++B+++I+++Pw40k89/d#++D+++A++++/eWD150R++++T(T)DM+++ 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Syracuse, NY

Those Plague Bearers could not have swept the Gaunts, but otherwise an interesting game.

I really think a CSM list focusing on the Tally needs to bring more bodies - not zombies, I mean actual Plague Marine or CSM with MoN bodies to the table. The real benefit imo is when those Bolters start to ramp up in effectiveness and when FNP goes to a 3+.

The cost of including the Tally is relatively low - so that part does not make it impractical - the cultists too are really bubble wrap for the rest of the army. I think keeping the Spawn further back (and adding another unit maybe) would have been beneficial too.

I agree on your thoughts on the Aegis, it can be a real trap. It is a shame that he had such a plum spot to DS - I originally thought you were going to spread those zombies way out to deny a good landing site.

Daemons Blog - The Mandulian Chapel 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

 calypso2ts wrote:
Those Plague Bearers could not have swept the Gaunts, but otherwise an interesting game.
Do you know where that is in the rules these days? We glanced through briefly, as it was a 5e rule, but it's not part of "Slow and Purposeful."

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Eye of Terror

The CSM list I would be hesitant to play with the coming rumors for a new CD dex.

My blog... http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com

Facebook...
https://m.facebook.com/Terminus6Est/

DT:60+S++++G++++M+++B+++I+++Pw40k89/d#++D+++A++++/eWD150R++++T(T)DM+++ 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

 Dozer Blades wrote:
The CSM list I would be hesitant to play with the coming rumors for a new CD dex.
While true, it's only a 6 model commitment to Daemons (and Jim already had them). I wouldn't build a new army around the Tally right now, though, for precisely that reason.

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Syracuse, NY

 Janthkin wrote:
 calypso2ts wrote:
Those Plague Bearers could not have swept the Gaunts, but otherwise an interesting game.
Do you know where that is in the rules these days? We glanced through briefly, as it was a 5e rule, but it's not part of "Slow and Purposeful."


I will check when I get home - I thought it was disallowed, but I could very well be mistaken, especially since you already checked. I will be back in a few hours!

Daemons Blog - The Mandulian Chapel 
   
Made in us
Power-Hungry Cultist of Tzeentch




 calypso2ts wrote:
 Janthkin wrote:
 calypso2ts wrote:
Those Plague Bearers could not have swept the Gaunts, but otherwise an interesting game.
Do you know where that is in the rules these days? We glanced through briefly, as it was a 5e rule, but it's not part of "Slow and Purposeful."


I will check when I get home - I thought it was disallowed, but I could very well be mistaken, especially since you already checked. I will be back in a few hours!


It is a part of Slow and Purposeful, don't know why you didn't catch that.

Page 42, BRB, Slow and Purposeful: "A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule cannot Run, Turbo-boost, move Flat Out, perform Sweeping Advances, or fire Overwatch..."
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

GameFreak975 wrote:
It is a part of Slow and Purposeful, don't know why you didn't catch that.

Page 42, BRB, Slow and Purposeful: "A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule cannot Run, Turbo-boost, move Flat Out, perform Sweeping Advances, or fire Overwatch..."
Thanks. Just blind, I guess. (And I didn't care much - the 'gants broke because I purposefully pulled the only one in synapse; I wanted to shoot at Epi next turn.)

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 calypso2ts wrote:
Those Plague Bearers could not have swept the Gaunts, but otherwise an interesting game.

I really think a CSM list focusing on the Tally needs to bring more bodies - not zombies, I mean actual Plague Marine or CSM with MoN bodies to the table. The real benefit imo is when those Bolters start to ramp up in effectiveness and when FNP goes to a 3+.

The cost of including the Tally is relatively low - so that part does not make it impractical - the cultists too are really bubble wrap for the rest of the army. I think keeping the Spawn further back (and adding another unit maybe) would have been beneficial too.

I agree on your thoughts on the Aegis, it can be a real trap. It is a shame that he had such a plum spot to DS - I originally thought you were going to spread those zombies way out to deny a good landing site.


Yeah, I'd also say that in a tally list, HS is probably the most important slot, as it lets you rack up the numbers from turn one. I'd probably be using havocs as well, or another useful unit to bring up the tally. Whenever I've been building the tally list, I've had a rule of thumb that all my HS slots should be filled with units that can produce from turn one. Oblits are the best option, but obviously price-wise 3 squads of 3 becomes too expensive. Havocs etc might be a good choice for the last slot. I'd probably drop the Aegis too.


 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Battle Reports
Go to: