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Playing around with 2000 point double force org lists, I was thinking about using 2 plasma CCS, one in a vendetta & one in a chimera, but its proving too expensive, so looking at my other HQ options, I have a Lord Commissar. Not much use in a non blob guard list, or a Primaris Pskyer.

I've never used one before, the powers seem pretty lacklustre, but with the advent of rulebook powers in 6th it might be worth running him, and he's cheaper than a second CCS.

So what do we reckon is the best thing to do with Primaris Psykers? The rest of my list is a mix of melta & plasma vets, 2 Vendetta, Hellhounds, Basilisks & russes.

The Primaris is pretty poor to be honest. The powers you can get from the book can be ok to pointless. Relying on luck to make him an average choice compared to another CCS isn't a great idea.
The codex powers are again, average. The CCS is just so good I'd try and free up the points for another one.

A better option would be a melta CCS in a Vendetta. They make amazing tank busters - 4 TL, BS4 melta gun shots. Or if you want to save on points, 3 melta guns.

well, my first CCS has 2 plasma pistols, 4 plasma guns & theyre in a vendetta.

I could take another one of these, but then I dont actually have the points to need two force orgs. I suppose I could take it anyway & just not bother with a double force org list.

 somecallmeJack wrote:
well, my first CCS has 2 plasma pistols, 4 plasma guns & theyre in a vendetta.

I could take another one of these, but then I dont actually have the points to need two force orgs. I suppose I could take it anyway & just not bother with a double force org list.

Why not go for a full melta CCS? As I said it's great at tank busting, the most points efficient way. This could free up some points on other anti-tank things.

One method I have heard of is a PP with a PCS+GLs in a chimera. This is a support unit, it can lay down a lot of mid strength fire at a decent range. About 6-16 shots from the squad, with 6 more from the chimera. Very good at stacking wounds on stuff, it can sit back and move to gaps in your line when needed.

You are using vets instead though, so I suppose it would work ok with plasma vets.

A P. psyker shines with a battle choir. You roll on telekinesis first, you are interested in psychic shreak, number 6, and the one that rallys the squad. If you get either the 6th power or the rallying one then you acquire the primaris power.

You put the choir in the vendetta with the psyker, they drop onto where you want faces to be ripped off, the choir drops the LD value of the squad you want to gun down and then the Primaris will use psychic shriek to turn that enemy squad into goo. Even without the squad using shriek will usually net you one or two wounds a turn so it is not terrible.

Rolling 17 wounds though on one squad with only invuls allowed is just tasty.

That is really the only way to take full advantage of the Primaris psyker. So 180 points for the Psyker and Choir, give them a vendetta and you are up to 310 points.

I have been using the primaris in a blob squad hoping to roll well on biomancy, backed up with 2 divination marine libbys. This provides enough powers that I usually get fnp or 4++ on them all the time, which allows enough survivability to justify the cost.

Except that the Psychic shriek trick has a terrible failure rate with all the dice involved. Two psychic tests, two DtW, and one roll to hit. Not reliable enough for the points investment.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 somecallmeJack wrote:
well, my first CCS has 2 plasma pistols, 4 plasma guns & theyre in a vendetta.

I could take another one of these, but then I dont actually have the points to need two force orgs. I suppose I could take it anyway & just not bother with a double force org list.

Why not go for a full melta CCS? As I said it's great at tank busting, the most points efficient way. This could free up some points on other anti-tank things.

I usually do run a full melta CCS. I wanted to experiment with the plasma because of the ability to give the commander two plasma pistols on top of the four you can get for the squad, and it seems like you get more bang for your buck re-rolling plasma misses (which are potentially deadly as well as a wasted shot) than with melta.

I think you're missing what I'm saying:
Run the full plasma, but also run a full melta. Take two CCSs rather than wasting points on the frankly underwhelming Primaris.

Step 1. Blob.
Step 2. Biomancy.
Step 3. Profit.

The best thing is to use his lightning fingers to shoot down fliers. Especially in combination with a nearby BiD order (and double especially if he's hiding with some plasma or melta vets or something).

If your opponent doesn't bring fliers (or, I suppose, monstrous creatures), then roll on TK, hoping for crush or OM.

 Griddlelol wrote:
I think you're missing what I'm saying:
Run the full plasma, but also run a full melta. Take two CCSs rather than wasting points on the frankly underwhelming Primaris.

Oh yes. I did misunderstand, sorry, I thought you were just saying 'dont bother with plasma, go melta'. Yeah, could definitely save on points that way. (compared to the plasma CCS). I'm not sure if I'd prefer veterans though, for the melta tank hunting role.

On the one hand, the CCS can cast orders on itself for twin linked without worrying about command radius and can bring 1 more meltagun. On the other a melta vet unit has more bodies to soak up fire, and for 30 points every member of the squad can have meltabombs. AND they might be in command radius for twin linking anyway. AND theyre scoring.

Seems to me like for tank hunting the vets are a better deal. If I'm running two CCS's why not go all out & have two plasma CCS's? I'd rather not give up a scoring unit for a very similar unit with less bodies that doesnt score.

I'd use them just because they're so good at their role as tank hunters. If you don't factor in the cost of the Vendetta (since you're taking it anyway) they're better at killing armor than any other infantry unit in the codex.

I understand what you're saying, but it's not like vets can't perform the plasma role just as well. The orders won't make a difference against anything that's not an MC or AV, and most of the time they'll be shooting at MEQ or TEQ. You also get the ablative wounds of the lasgunners to save those pretty pricey plasmaguns.

Finally it all comes down to the fact that the only other real option is a PP and they're really not that good. I've seen the FnP on a blob before and it sounds cool, but...it's really not that great. The guardsmen are only t3 so it's quite easy to ignore. Also you have to get lucky with the only 2 good powers in biomancy - FnP or 4++. When you compare that to a CCS with melta-guns it just seems like there's no contest.

I agree 100% that the CCS is the best HQ unit, I was only really considering the PP as a way to save points in a double force org list. Maybe its better to just not bother with that with guard at 2000pts.

The only reason I favour plasma for the CCS over melta is the ability to get 6 plasma weapons into the squad, as opposed to 4 melta & the vets' 3 of either. Plus the CCS can't get melta bombs, which for tank hunting are a must, I feel.

I was thinking of using them precisely for dealing with MCs. Use grav chute to dump them in front of some gribbly, twin link and unload 10 re-rollable plasma shots.

 somecallmeJack wrote:
Plus the CCS can't get melta bombs, which for tank hunting are a must, I feel.

Not really. Vets and CCS are always used with transports, and you can't charge with melta bombs after you disembark (if you even want to leave the Chimera at all). So to use them you need to fail the first attack, then survive a round of fire, then have something within charge range. Sure, demolitions is still a useful upgrade, but for the demo charge, the melta bombs are just a nice bonus that might be useful once in a while. They're hardly essential to the anti-tank role.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BunkerBob wrote:
A P. psyker shines with a battle choir.

If by "shines", you mean "sucks", then yes, it does. By the time you're done rolling the psychic tests, DTW, and to-hit rolls you need to pass to make the combo work you're down to an extremely low chance of doing anything even against basic 6+ DTW. Instead of wasting points on an unreliable combo just spend them on more guns and kill the target the traditional way.