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1750 BAO Practice Match - Hive Fleet Pandora vs Grey Knights (Completed)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Will the knights dominate the bugs like they used to back in 5th?
Yes, grey knights still have all the tools to do so.
Draw. Grey knight firepower is matched by tyranid resiliency.
No, with the vehicle nerfs and the dominance of the new psychic nids, the knights will struggle.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Just had a game against an interesting Grey Knights army by my friend and long-time GK player, Bobby (aka Grey Therion). Bobby plays somewhat exotic GK armies, not your run-of-the-mill purifier or paladin armies. Before, he used to run paladins. This time, he is running purifiers....but without Crowe!

He recently posted a battle report here on dakka and I believe he is using the exact same list that he used in that game:

Betrayed Thousand Sons vs. Purifier Inquisiton (Space Marines vs. Grey Knights)

I am running my standard competitive dual-flyrant Hive Fleet Pandora at 1750. This is a build that I am seriously considering bringing to the Bay Area Open come March of 2013. Thus, I am trying to get in more practice games with it.

I've played against Bobby a number of times before. We faced off at the Ard Boyz Preliminaries last year:

2500pts Ard Boyz - Grey Knights (8/13/11, Ard Boyz Game #3 Finished on p.6)

Before that, I fought against his grey knights with my bugs:

2500pts 'Ard Boyz Practice Match - Grey Knights vs Tyranids


-------------------------------------------------------------------


1750 Hive Fleet Pandora vs Coteaz-Purifier Grey Knights


1750 Tyranids

Flyrant - 2x TL-Devourers
Flyrant - 2x TL-Devourers

Doom of Ma'lantai - Mycetic Spore
2x Hive Guards
2x Hive Guards

Tervigon - Adrenal Glands, Catalyst, Cluster Spines, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs, Crushing Claws
10x Termagants
Tervigon - Adrenal Glands, Catalyst, Cluster Spines, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs
10x Termagants

16x Gargoyles - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

3x Biovores
2x Biovores



1750 Grey Knights

Coteaz

10x Purifiers - 4x Psycannons, 1x Thunderhammer, 5x Halberds
Razorback - Dozerblades, Psybolt Ammo
10x Purifiers - 4x Psycannons, 1x Thunderhammer, 5x Halberds
Razorback - Dozerblades, Psybolt Ammo
10x Purifiers - 4x Psycannons, 1x Thunderhammer, 5x Halberds
Razorback - Dozerblades, Psybolt Ammo

3x Acolytes with Melta Bombs
Chimera - Dozerblades
3x Acolytes with Bolters
Chimera - Dozerblades
2x Acolytes with Plasma Guns, 1x Crusader
Chimera - Dozerblades
2x Crusaders, 1x Psyker
1x Crusader, 1x Psyker, 1x Acolyte with Bolter
3x Daemonhosts

1x Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter


-------------------------------------------------------------------


We are playing the BAO scenario combining the Emperor's Will and Crusade. Grey knights are going first.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/12/17 15:55:49



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut





United Kingdom

I wouldn't even want to call this one! The GK list while being a bit different or 'exotic' as you put it, still has a lot of power going for it. But I've seen how you well you play your Nids. I'll go on a whim and back the Nids though.

One question about your list though, why not try find the extra 45 points for the third Biovore on in the second squad, or do you not feel the extra blast is needed?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/16 07:55:49


   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

I'm going to put my money on the Nids. The GK list just looks a bit odd to me.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in be
Deranged Necron Destroyer






tbh, i cant see the grey knight list winning a game for its life...

My money is more than definetly on the Nids

You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things

And we shall do so again.

4500 pts


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Grey Knights:
Some may be surprised by the lack of Crowe to make purifiers scoring in this list, but actually, it's not that bad. This makes those purifiers expendable, thus allowing him to play them very aggressively. The way he plays is like this. He would combat-squad the purifiers into 1 unit of halberds + 1 hammer and the other unit into 4 psycannons. Halberds will go in psyback and will rush the enemy. Psycannons will steal the chimera and use it as firing platform. Henchmen will then hang back and sit on objectives because the opponent will have his hands full dealing with the purifiers. Opponents will then be faced with a 2-tier attack - 12 psycannons shooting you down in the back, mad I6 marines with force weapons and 1 dreadknight rushing you in the front. Problem is, while scary to many armies, my bugs just don't really care about his assaulty units, not like they used to back in 5th. Target priority for the bugs is much easier....just kill the psycannons and I will probably do ok.

Flyrants will be trouble for the knights. With their mobility, I can easily get side shots at his chimeras and force his psycannon knights to disembark when I wreck their rides. Then my biovores will have some juicy targets. Biovores are a major pain for my opponent. With them alive, his troops are not safe and will not be able to hold objectives. He needs to deal with them and I suspect he will use his dreadknight for that. And then there are the tervigons, who are always high priority targets. Overall, my opponent really needs to focus on 1 unit at a time and kill it completely. Spread out his firepower against several threats and he will have a really tough time against my bugs.

And then there's the Doom that he has to deal with as well....


Tyranids:
While I think I have the advantage in this battle, I really can't discount the threat of grey knight shooting. As a GK player myself (who ironically plays Crowe-purifiers), I have to respect their shooting. Because 48 psycannon shots, of which 16 will be re-rollable, will do a number on any of my guys, flyrants included. Fortunately for me, target priority is clear and easy - go after his psycannons in chimeras. Once I disembark them....and I definitely will....biovores can take care of them. If I can strand them while they are far away, then their effectiveness is halved as their shots are halved when they move.

I don't really fear his assault. Tervigons, especially if I can get Iron Arm, are near impervious to nemesis force weapons. The moment his knights disembark, they are either going to get eaten by my monstrous creatures, swarmed by my gribblies or bombarded by the biovores. When his dreadknight gets close, he is going to get tied up my gribblies. I don't necessarily need to kill him (though I probably will). I just need to pin him down before I eventually overrun him.

The grey knights were scary last edition against bugs. They are still a challenge to play against but now they are nowhere near as scary as they once used to be (with probably the exception being striker S5-stormbolter-spam backed by a couple of dreadknights). Otherwise, I think this is actually a good matchup for my bugs.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: Bay Area Open Scenario #4 - Crusade (4pts) & The Emperor's Will (3pts)

The way the BAO scenarios work is this. There are always 2 book missions, one worth 4 points and the other worth 3 points. There are also the 3 bonus points - First Blood, Slay the Warlord and Linebreaker - for a possible total of 10 points. Whoever gets the most points wins. In scenario #4, Crusade is worth 4-points and The Emperor's Will worth 3-points.

Deployment: Dawn of War

Initiative: Grey Knights


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:

Spoiler:

Map of the terrain.



Objectives - the turtles are the Crusade objectives.


And the crystals are the Emperor's Will objectives.


Tyranid psychic powers. All Biomancy except for the Doom, who is taking Telepathy.

Flyrant #1 (Warlord, top): Iron Arm, Warp Speed
Flyrant #2: Life Leech, Hemorrhage
Tervigons #1 (Claws): Iron Arm, Enfeeble, Hemorrhage
Tervigons #2: Enfeeble, Warp Speed, Hemorrhage
Doom: Psychic Shriek

While I am glad to get 2 Iron Arms (especially on my Warlord), having no Endurance might sting a little, especially against rending psycannons.

Coteaz: Prescience, Misfortune

Fortunately for my nids, Coteaz cannot cast Misfortune from within his chimera.

Warlord traits:

Tyranids: FNP within 3" of an objective

Grey Knights: don't know, don't care


GK deployment. As expected, purifiers combat squad. Halberds + hammer goes in the psybacks (that's razorback with psybolt ammo). Psycannons will hitch a ride with the chimeras on his Turn 1.


Dreadknight behind the ruins. Daemonhosts hiding behind the ruins as well.


He also deploys 2 units of henchmen, with 3 units coming in from reserves.


Tyranid deployment. I am going to make my opponent pay for his deployment. I deploy my bugs to his left flank to nullify the shooting from the right half of his army. This is how you play against the shooty armies. You try to deny some of their shooty whenever possible. By using a refused flank deployment and taking advantage of the central LOS-blocking terrain, I've rendered the shooting of virtually half of his army almost useless (with only gargoyles as their target).

For mysterious objectives, I get Scatterfield for both.

I then try to steal the initiative but fail.




-------------------------------------------------------------------


Grey Knights 1

Spoiler:

GK movement. Coteaz casts Prescience (he would attempt to do this every turn). Purifiers get into the rhino. Vehicles adjust their positions, however, his psycannons are out of range of most of my big guys. Dreadknight shunt towards my lines and prepare to incinerate my biovores.


His heavy incinerator kills 1 biovore and takes off 1W from another. It also kills 1 gant.


Actually it turns out that 1, perhaps 2 psycannons are within range of my claw tervigon. Psycannons, multi-lasers and psybacks focus and manage to take off 3W from my claw tervigon. On my right, the 2 chimeras and purifiers fire at the gargoyles (their only target), killing 7.




Tyranids 1

Spoiler:

1 tervigon spawns 18 gants and runs out. Tyranids advance. Gargoyles and termagants will be assaulting his dreadknight to try to lock him in place.


Hive guards, unit of 2 biovores and gants move into the protection of the ruins.


Both flyrants swoop 24" towards the knights. They are in the side arc of the chimera.


It takes not 1, but both flyrants to finally wreck his chimera, though that does give me First Blood.


Biovores then drop some barrages over them, killing 2 purifiers and 1 henchman.


Shooting by gargoyles and gants actually put 1W on the dreadknight.


I then assault him and put another 2W on him. In return, the dreadknight kills 1 gargoyle with Overwatch and 4 gants in combat.

I make a mistake here tactically. I advanced my tervigon which took him out of range to give my termagants Furious Charge and Poison. I should have moved him in a way that he would have been in range of them (i.e. moved him to the right instead of forwards). If I had done that, I might have potentially killed his dreadknight on Turn 1.




Grey Knights 2

Spoiler:

1 unit of henchmen comes in from reserves and goes for the objective in the ruins.


Purifiers disembark from their transport and move towards the dreadknight melee. He needs to disembark them this turn in order for them to be able to assault next turn. That is one of the drawbacks of being mechanized. At least my flyrants are far away from them. Psyback then moves forwards to give them cover (and hopefully to block out my LOS to them).


Psybacks head straight towards my objective. BTW, the 2 guardsmen that you see there, they are actually spore mine proxies.


He then focuses practically his entire army (at least all those who are in range and have LOS) at my flyrant. I barely manage to survive with 1W left and pass every Grounding test.


On the other side, Coteaz and the 2 psycannon purifiers fire at my tervigon and put 4W on him from rending. I make another mistake here and forget that my tervigon is in cover. A little later on, I remember and my opponent was nice enough to let me take them. I would make 3 out of 4 cover saves so only lose 1W.

Dreadknight kills maybe another 1-2 gants.




Tyranids 2

Spoiler:

The Doom comes in.


Tyranid movement. Left tervigon goes after the razorbacks.


My Warlord glides. He will be assaulting the knights inside after blowing up their ride.


My other flyrant swoops 24" and will go after Coteaz's ride.


Then we go to the shooting phase. The Doom is absolutely brutal, wiping out the unit of 3 henchmen behind the 4+ cover ruins with Spirit Leech.


But that's not all. He also wipes out the unit of halberd purifiers on foot!!!

Like I said....absolutely brutal.


Flyrant blows up the rhino, killing 1 purifier in the explosion.


The other flyrant blows up Coteaz's ride, killing 2 psycannons in the explosion!

Hive guards only manage to strip off 2 Hull Points from the psyback that my tervigon will be assaulting.


We then go to assault.


The other tervigon makes a 10" assault against his razorback. He is also now in range to give my gants Poison attacks.


Flyrant kills 3 halberds. His hammer does manage to wound me once, however, my Warlord makes his FNP save because I made sure to put him within 3" of an objective when he assaulted.

Tervigon blows up the psyback. Here is another nerf to the vehicle rules. Now his purifiers won't be able to assault next turn!


My other tervigon completely fluffs his attacks against the psyback. The dreadknight, who BTW is Enfeebled, kills 2 gargoyles.


This was an absolutely devastating turn for Bobby. I wiped out 1 unit of purifiers and 1 unit of henchmen with the Doom. I've destroyed 3 transports. Flyrant will wipe out another unit of purifiers next turn. I also killed 2 psycannon knights and the his last unit of halberd purifiers won't be able to assault next turn. I have the Doom on the loose by his objective and a flyrant running rampant in his lines. I really don't think my opponent will be able to recover from this turn.




Grey Knights 3

Spoiler:

Overview of the top of Turn 3.


Both units of henchmen comes in from reserves.


Coteaz takes a wound and fail to cast Prescience. I believe he also forgets to cast Misfortune.


The psyback goes to tank shock my spore....only to blow up by its Death & Glory. The explosion actually puts 1W on my spore.

My Warlord finishes off his purifier and will be free to roam around next turn.


On the bright side, he does manage to shoot down my flyrant....


....and put another 4W on my tervigon (1W remaining).



But at this point, my opponent is just too demoralized to continue. I still have my Warlord at full strength and 2 tervigons (though 1 of them has only 1W left) and most of my army intact. I have both Crusade and the Emperor's Will currently and my opponent just doesn't see a way to wrestle any of the objectives away from my Warlord, the Doom and the tervigon that can still spawn gants. With that, he concedes.




Crushing Victory to Hive Fleet Pandora!!!





Tyranids 3



Grey Knights 4



Tyranids 4



Grey Knights 5



Tyranids 5



This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/12/17 07:52:36



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Haha, the Grey Knights outnumber the Nids (at least starting off).

Giving this one to the Nids again, assuming jy2 is smart with deployment. It wouldn't be completely unreasonable to lose an entire Flyrant or even a Tervigon on turn 1.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Eldercaveman wrote:
I wouldn't even want to call this one! The GK list while being a bit different or 'exotic' as you put it, still has a lot of power going for it. But I've seen how you well you play your Nids. I'll go on a whim and back the Nids though.

One question about your list though, why not try find the extra 45 points for the third Biovore on in the second squad, or do you not feel the extra blast is needed?

I could, but I wanted to get Adrenal Glands for my tervigons (before I didn't give them AG). Also, since 1 of my tervigons is WYSWYG with crushing claws, I decided to throw that in as well. If I like this configuration, then I just may keep it. If not, then I'll drop them to reclaim my 6th biovore.


Siphen wrote:
Haha, the Grey Knights outnumber the Nids (at least starting off).

Giving this one to the Nids again, assuming jy2 is smart with deployment. It wouldn't be completely unreasonable to lose an entire Flyrant or even a Tervigon on turn 1.

Not possible for him to shoot down my TMC's on Turn 1 (or highly improbable at the very least). His psycannons just don't have the range, with 16 shots at 24" or 8 shots at 30" (move and you fire at assault 2 unless you want to snapfire). He just doesn't have the initial range to hit my flyrants as I can deploy them out of his threat range, though he may possibly get my tervigons. Of course I am going to make it hard for him to fire all his guns at my units by deploying strategically.



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut





United Kingdom

 jy2 wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
I wouldn't even want to call this one! The GK list while being a bit different or 'exotic' as you put it, still has a lot of power going for it. But I've seen how you well you play your Nids. I'll go on a whim and back the Nids though.


 jy2 wrote:
One question about your list though, why not try find the extra 45 points for the third Biovore on in the second squad, or do you not feel the extra blast is needed?

I could, but I wanted to get Adrenal Glands for my tervigons (before I didn't give them AG). Also, since 1 of my tervigons is WYSWYG with crushing claws, I decided to throw that in as well. If I like this configuration, then I just may keep it. If not, then I'll drop them to reclaim my 6th biovore


I like running crushing claws, especially when combined with Warp Speed! AG can be nice, giving your Gants the chance to glance rear armour to death is always nice

   
Made in us
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine





Manhattan, Ks

Lego, the smart man's 40k! Those lego models are pretty nice actually and seem to fit the same size

"Decadence Unbound..."

10,000+


 
   
Made in us
Battleship Captain






I only see grey knight force weapons pulling any kind of benefit. The deployment has ruined him. He will be a under dog all game if he doesnt make a good play.
   
Made in au
Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch




Australia

 Riddick40k wrote:
Lego, the smart man's 40k! Those lego models are pretty nice actually and seem to fit the same size


Ha! I like the Lego tanks too. Did your opponent build them from scratch?

2000 pts

Compel wrote:
Because in a universe where the basic weapon is a rocket propelled grenade machine gun, with gigantic battletanks, 5 kilometer long spaceships, huge robots and power armoured supersoldiers, the most powerful guy you want to field on a battlefield is a bloke in a pointy hat carrying a stick. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA



Battle report completed.



Sorry, but I will get to my responses tomorrow. Too tired right now....




6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut





United Kingdom

Holy brutal 'Nids, that was truly a crushing victory!

   
Made in au
Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch




Australia

That was devastating! Game over basically after 2 turns. At first, I thought I was reading the thread before it was completed!

You really didn't even need the hive guard, biovores, or (to a lesser extent) the gargoyles. They just distracted your opponent. Your big bugs basically did all the crushing, while the gants clogged things up. I suppose that's the point: your big guys are mobile, attacking where and when they want; your little guys tarpit the opponent so they CAN'T attack where and when they want.

Also, Doom really performed here. This highlights the fundamental weakness of Grey Knights: they have nice guns, and nice weapons, but they're still just marines. They die like all marines. That said, nice rolling really helped with the Doom's strike.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/17 10:10:48


2000 pts

Compel wrote:
Because in a universe where the basic weapon is a rocket propelled grenade machine gun, with gigantic battletanks, 5 kilometer long spaceships, huge robots and power armoured supersoldiers, the most powerful guy you want to field on a battlefield is a bloke in a pointy hat carrying a stick. 
   
Made in gb
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot





A small, damp hole somewhere in England

Great report, with an interesting selection of models

The lego rhinos look the part, though the chimeras seem smaller then they should? I like your spore model though!

Follow the White Scars Fifth Brotherhood as they fight in the Yarov sector - battle report #7 against Eldar here
   
Made in fr
Regular Dakkanaut




Brutal game for GK... although some moves are a bit weird (not even talking about deployment)

Doom made it's job, almost as usual vs foot/dismounted units.

The big LOS blocking element in the middle of the board is quite a big hassle for GK; I tend to prefer ruins that give cover but not completely kills LOS in the middle, it limits the frustration of being "beaten by terrain/deployment".


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Burtucky, Michigan

Yea that was pretty bad for the GK player. Ive found, that, to me personally, fighting against Nids takes a different style of playing to work. Nice win
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Eldercaveman wrote:

I like running crushing claws, especially when combined with Warp Speed! AG can be nice, giving your Gants the chance to glance rear armour to death is always nice

Yeah, that's potentially a lot of attacks on the charge....up to 11 S9 attacks!!!

The tervigon can just wreck house in combat now. He just went from force-multiplier to force-multiplier + kick-a$$ tanking unit.


 Riddick40k wrote:
Lego, the smart man's 40k! Those lego models are pretty nice actually and seem to fit the same size

Bobby's our lego man. He just started using actual GW transports recently. When I first played against him, all his dedicated transports were made of lego!

And the footprint of those vehicles are exactly the same size as the actual models themselves.

One time in an Apoc game that we played, Bobby actually brought a Thunderhawk made entirely of lego!!!


 cormadepanda wrote:
I only see grey knight force weapons pulling any kind of benefit. The deployment has ruined him. He will be a under dog all game if he doesnt make a good play.

That's the only disadvantage of going first. His deployment is pretty standard. Going second, however, I get to react to his deployment which is a big advantage. Fortunately for me, he just doesn't have the range to alpha-strike me and now the flyrants have the range to do damage even if I deploy a little further out.


 DexKivuli wrote:

Ha! I like the Lego tanks too. Did your opponent build them from scratch?

I believe there are instructions out there on how to build the tanks from lego blocks. But yeah, he built it from scratch with 100% lego bits.


Eldercaveman wrote:
Holy brutal 'Nids, that was truly a crushing victory!

 DexKivuli wrote:
That was devastating! Game over basically after 2 turns. At first, I thought I was reading the thread before it was completed!

You really didn't even need the hive guard, biovores, or (to a lesser extent) the gargoyles. They just distracted your opponent. Your big bugs basically did all the crushing, while the gants clogged things up. I suppose that's the point: your big guys are mobile, attacking where and when they want; your little guys tarpit the opponent so they CAN'T attack where and when they want.

Also, Doom really performed here. This highlights the fundamental weakness of Grey Knights: they have nice guns, and nice weapons, but they're still just marines. They die like all marines. That said, nice rolling really helped with the Doom's strike.


Bobby could have continued, but I think it would have only got worse for him. A couple of mistakes on his part, tactical play on my part and the dice (i.e. him rolling high for his LD tests against the Doom) just ended the game prematurely. Just like my game with my Nurgle-marines vs Janthkin's bugs. After 2 turns, it was just him (me in my game against Janthkin) just trying to stay alive.

It was teamwork that won me the game. All units helped out in this game. Hive guards killed a couple of tanks. Biovores killed some infantry and affected the way he played (i.e. henchmen in reserves means less attempts to ground my flyrants and he basically sacrificed his dreadknight just to try to take out my biovores). Gargoyles drew fire, tied up his dreadknight and actually almost killed him. Without the contributions of my "little" guys, my big bugs wouldn't have been able to dominate like this. But yeah, flyrants are usually the focus of my offense and they usually score the biggest kills. Them and the Doom.

The Doom is just a game-changing unit. In this game and in my game against Janthkin, he completely changed the outcome of the game. This guy is just ridiculous. Don't use him in casual games.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Hedgehog wrote:
Great report, with an interesting selection of models

The lego rhinos look the part, though the chimeras seem smaller then they should? I like your spore model though!

The lego rhinos are exactly the same size as the actual models. My spore is really disgustingly good (model-wise). Sometimes I'm afraid to use it for my battle reports because I think it may offend some people, but so far, no one's said anything.


Arleucs wrote:
Brutal game for GK... although some moves are a bit weird (not even talking about deployment)

Doom made it's job, almost as usual vs foot/dismounted units.

The big LOS blocking element in the middle of the board is quite a big hassle for GK; I tend to prefer ruins that give cover but not completely kills LOS in the middle, it limits the frustration of being "beaten by terrain/deployment".


My opponent is somewhat unconventional in both his lists and his tactics. He doesn't play them how many other GK players do, but he's been having some success. I think he enjoys the experimentation of alternative builds and tactics. Almost every time I see him, he's bringing a slightly different GK army.

With the increase in foot-lists in this edition, the Doom has become disgustingly good. Right now, he is a standard part of my list whereas in 5th Edition, I hardly ever used him.

Also, with the changes in the vehicle rules, now you have to disembark 1 turn earlier from non-assault vehicles if you are planning to assault. That's a change most mech players need to adjust to. It's also a change that puts his units at risk earlier than they would want to be.

The LOS-blocking terrain in the middle has become standard for almost all of the larger tournament. Both Nova and the BAO will use it. The last GT I went to, the Golden Throne, also used it as well. I think if you are preparing for a tournament, you need to try to get as close to the type of terrain you will see there as well. Basically in our area, almost everyone plays with some type of terrain in the middle, with most of it being LOS-blocking. Otherwise, it really becomes just a turkey-shoot for the more gunline armies.


 KingCracker wrote:
Yea that was pretty bad for the GK player. Ive found, that, to me personally, fighting against Nids takes a different style of playing to work. Nice win

Most definitely, and thanks.

Also, tyranids are surprising a lot of players. The mentality right now regarding the bugs is that they are not competitive, or so says the interwebs. Most people are literally unprepared for how tough and good the bugs can be when they come up against a good tyranid player.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/17 15:42:57



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
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I think people are just taking their time adjusting to 6th to be honest. I feel like the Nids are amazing but people are still recouping from post 5th armies. Entire mech armies have had to be rethought and the meta is all over the place do to allies. I don't think anyone was prepared for the sheer volume of psychic powers the nids have got now. Farseers and Rune Priests help in this match up though. I think the the only real hard counter to nids now is DE, but then again I've seen some tau/eldar lists that I think could handle it fairly well too.

In this game his list was just too flat, it had no synergy other then swapping rides which really gave him no edge and gave you an easy FB. He also took the bait hook, line and sinker with his DK. I don't understand how he could have thought one heavy incinerator shot was worth being tied down, he was better off roasting the remaining gargoyles and protecting his transports from those tervigons. C'est La Vis.

   
Made in us
Stalwart Strike Squad Grey Knight





Sunnyvale, CA

Special Thanks to JY2 for taking the time to write yet another entertaining and thorough battle report!

I think that both JY2 and Janthkin have demonstrated now that Tyranids can be extremely competitive when the whole army works together! The Bioveres, Hive Guard, Doom of Malan'tai and the Flyrants combined not only direct fire away from the Tervigons but apply an incredible psychological pressure on the opponent player. Basically in 6th edition, the silly outflanking Genestealers have been replaced by non-line of sight artillery and a giant suicide bomb!

As the Grey Knight player in this game I think I made the following mistakes:

1. I spread my objectives too thin, all of them should have been in or around the ruin.

2. I decided to split my army into two fronts, one to the left of the LOS Blocking Terrain in the middle and one to the right. That was stupid. I could have easily moved all chimeras and rhinos 18 inches to the left and re-adjusted whole game strategy.

3. I was too dismissive of the Doom. I could have had Coteaz stay near an objective to give his squad Feel No Pain (from his warlord trait) and have a chance at insta poping the doom and spore if they scattered towards him.

4. I should have waited for JY2 to attack and start a counter attack only after turn 3 or 4. Grey Knights are best at counter attacking.

Overall this was a very quick and bloody game and I highly recommend to everyone to try out the BAO mission rule sets. Having a primary and a secondary mission makes things much more interesting!

- 4000
- 1500 6th ed codex: 2 wins, 1 loss, 0 draws 
   
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A small, damp hole somewhere in England

A Lego Thunderhawk? Pics please

Follow the White Scars Fifth Brotherhood as they fight in the Yarov sector - battle report #7 against Eldar here
   
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Fresh-Faced New User




I'm interested that you always take psychic shriek on the doom, I haven't played with nids yet as I'm still working on getting a viable army but it seems as though a high strength AP1 blast would be incredibly strong. Why do you always take psychic shriek? I assume you've tried both out and found shriek to be more effective?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

 Red Corsair wrote:
I think people are just taking their time adjusting to 6th to be honest. I feel like the Nids are amazing but people are still recouping from post 5th armies. Entire mech armies have had to be rethought and the meta is all over the place do to allies. I don't think anyone was prepared for the sheer volume of psychic powers the nids have got now. Farseers and Rune Priests help in this match up though. I think the the only real hard counter to nids now is DE, but then again I've seen some tau/eldar lists that I think could handle it fairly well too.

In this game his list was just too flat, it had no synergy other then swapping rides which really gave him no edge and gave you an easy FB. He also took the bait hook, line and sinker with his DK. I don't understand how he could have thought one heavy incinerator shot was worth being tied down, he was better off roasting the remaining gargoyles and protecting his transports from those tervigons. C'est La Vis.

Yeah, I'm still adjusting to playing mech in 6th. Most of my non-necron-scythe mech armies have done poorly so far. I've actually lost more than I've won with mech armies in 6th. But it is a playstyle that some people just like to play, whether it is better or worse. Also, some people are still trying to hit their stride with the new mech armies. People don't give up so easily. If I was playing mech, I would strive to make it work despite the nerfs that it has taken (though I'm having a blast playing foot-lists currently so am in no rush to try to get my mech armies to work).

Also, I have not jumped onto the allies bandwagon yet. I'm still playing mainly monogamous armies with the exception of my Epidemius-Nurgle CSM army. Allies can make an army better, but I feel that all the armies can still work without allies.

Grey knights are one of those armies that rely more on pure raw firepower than on synergy, because each unit of grey knights can function perfectly independent from the rest of the body. The lack of synergy does not hurt them as much as it does some armies. However, that doesn't mean that they don't benefit from teamwork. They work great when all the units are united in 1 cohesive force as with any other army. However, they can also split off if necessary and still perform. That's the flexibility of the water warrior army. But no matter what army you bring, you do not want to attack a unified tyranid army in small forces. Rather, the best way to play against them is to throw your entire army into them as they do onto yours. At least that's my philosophy as both a GK and tyranid player.


 Grey Therion wrote:
Special Thanks to JY2 for taking the time to write yet another entertaining and thorough battle report!

I think that both JY2 and Janthkin have demonstrated now that Tyranids can be extremely competitive when the whole army works together! The Bioveres, Hive Guard, Doom of Malan'tai and the Flyrants combined not only direct fire away from the Tervigons but apply an incredible psychological pressure on the opponent player. Basically in 6th edition, the silly outflanking Genestealers have been replaced by non-line of sight artillery and a giant suicide bomb!

As the Grey Knight player in this game I think I made the following mistakes:

1. I spread my objectives too thin, all of them should have been in or around the ruin.

2. I decided to split my army into two fronts, one to the left of the LOS Blocking Terrain in the middle and one to the right. That was stupid. I could have easily moved all chimeras and rhinos 18 inches to the left and re-adjusted whole game strategy.

3. I was too dismissive of the Doom. I could have had Coteaz stay near an objective to give his squad Feel No Pain (from his warlord trait) and have a chance at insta poping the doom and spore if they scattered towards him.

4. I should have waited for JY2 to attack and start a counter attack only after turn 3 or 4. Grey Knights are best at counter attacking.

Overall this was a very quick and bloody game and I highly recommend to everyone to try out the BAO mission rule sets. Having a primary and a secondary mission makes things much more interesting!

And thank you Bobby for giving me some practice against the grey knights. Let me provide some of my opinions of the game.

1. Agreed. It would have been easier for your units to stay as a whole if they did not have to spread out to cover the objectives. And grey knights supporting each other would have made it a lot tougher for my bugs.

2. Agreed. Splitting them up just made it easier for me to attack you from the flanks where your units would have a much tougher time supporting each other. It also allowed me to deny almost half of your army some of its firepower against my more important units.

3. I've been guilty of this as well, as my game against Janthkin's bugs can attest. The Doom can just be devastating at times.

4. I wouldn't have fallen for that. I wouldn't have attacked your army directly if they were supporting each other. Then again, my bugs wouldn't have to. Flyrant would stay at a distant and shower your guys and transports with shots. Biovores would then rain barrages on your guys. One of the strengths of my bugs is that I don't really need to assault you to do a lot of my damage. I'm just as happy shooting you down until the point where I think I can safely assault your units without huge risk.


Good game and we can have a rematch in the future.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Hedgehog wrote:
A Lego Thunderhawk? Pics please

I believe I have it somewhere. If I find it, I will definitely post it. It's pretty awesome. From a distance, you can't even tell that its lego!


OhNoItsNot wrote:
I'm interested that you always take psychic shriek on the doom, I haven't played with nids yet as I'm still working on getting a viable army but it seems as though a high strength AP1 blast would be incredibly strong. Why do you always take psychic shriek? I assume you've tried both out and found shriek to be more effective?

Sometimes I alternate between Biomancy and Telepathy. Biomancy has some really good powers for the Doom and you hit the jackpot if you can get Iron Arm. However, lately I've been using Telepathy more for its offense. I always roll first to see what I get and depending on the opponent, I then decide if I want to keep it or swap it out for Psychic Shriek. But you can't go wrong with Psychic Shriek. Also, for Biomancy, Smite is not so shabby either. In any case, both disciplines are pretty awesome. For the Doom, it's a win-win situation.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/18 01:58:47



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut





United Kingdom

Life Leech is a real winner for Doom, not only does he gain a wound back for Life Leech, but he then gains a wound because of his own rule for causing wounds, its 2 for 1!

   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

Thanks for the report jy2, I always enjoy seeing your bugs eat some marines.

 jy2 wrote:
I don't really fear his assault. Tervigons, especially if I can get Iron Arm, are near impervious to nemesis force weapons.


I thought so too, then had a really unfortunate attack phase versus Draigowing. I assaulted Draigo with a Tervigon, Carnifex and a Prime. She split her attacks between all three, hit all three once, rolled 6s to wound versus the Tervigon and Carnifex, and a 5 to wound versus the Prime. Then made his NFW roll despite SitW. I can't even imagine the odds. Obviously not going to happen often, but can haha.


 jy2 wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote:
I wouldn't even want to call this one! The GK list while being a bit different or 'exotic' as you put it, still has a lot of power going for it. But I've seen how you well you play your Nids. I'll go on a whim and back the Nids though.

One question about your list though, why not try find the extra 45 points for the third Biovore on in the second squad, or do you not feel the extra blast is needed?

I could, but I wanted to get Adrenal Glands for my tervigons (before I didn't give them AG). Also, since 1 of my tervigons is WYSWYG with crushing claws, I decided to throw that in as well. If I like this configuration, then I just may keep it. If not, then I'll drop them to reclaim my 6th biovore.


Siphen wrote:
Haha, the Grey Knights outnumber the Nids (at least starting off).

Giving this one to the Nids again, assuming jy2 is smart with deployment. It wouldn't be completely unreasonable to lose an entire Flyrant or even a Tervigon on turn 1.

Not possible for him to shoot down my TMC's on Turn 1 (or highly improbable at the very least). His psycannons just don't have the range, with 16 shots at 24" or 8 shots at 30" (move and you fire at assault 2 unless you want to snapfire). He just doesn't have the initial range to hit my flyrants as I can deploy them out of his threat range, though he may possibly get my tervigons. Of course I am going to make it hard for him to fire all his guns at my units by deploying strategically.



If you are shooting at Flyrants, you would want to always pick Heavy 4 as you need 6s to hit anyway (so Snapfire isn't an additional detriment).

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
 
   
Made in us
Stalwart Strike Squad Grey Knight





Sunnyvale, CA

Hedgehog Wrote:
A Lego Thunderhawk? Pics please


These are two pictures from my first and so far only Apoc game playing with my Lego Thunderhawk:

The Lego model is more expensive that the actual Thunderhawk (it came out to about 1500 pieces). I used it once but it got me really interested in flyers and I ended up buying 3 Stormravens!

- 4000
- 1500 6th ed codex: 2 wins, 1 loss, 0 draws 
   
Made in nz
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





Auckland, New Zealand

Wow, that was a brutal game; I will never vote against your army again, I promise.
Great job

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/493046.page#5049916
I didn't choose the WAAGH! life, the WAAGH! life chose me.  
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





United Kingdom

That is incredible

   
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Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot





A small, damp hole somewhere in England

Awesome!

Follow the White Scars Fifth Brotherhood as they fight in the Yarov sector - battle report #7 against Eldar here
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

@Grey Therion

Nice! I know I also have some pictures of it somewhere (still searching)....


Eldercaveman wrote:
Life Leech is a real winner for Doom, not only does he gain a wound back for Life Leech, but he then gains a wound because of his own rule for causing wounds, its 2 for 1!

I normally prefer force-multiplier powers such as Endurance, Enfeeble, Iron Arm, Terrify and Puppet Master but if I get an offensive power, I would say Psychic Shriek is the best. You can gain back multiple wounds for that!


whoadirty wrote:
Thanks for the report jy2, I always enjoy seeing your bugs eat some marines.

 jy2 wrote:
I don't really fear his assault. Tervigons, especially if I can get Iron Arm, are near impervious to nemesis force weapons.


I thought so too, then had a really unfortunate attack phase versus Draigowing. I assaulted Draigo with a Tervigon, Carnifex and a Prime. She split her attacks between all three, hit all three once, rolled 6s to wound versus the Tervigon and Carnifex, and a 5 to wound versus the Prime. Then made his NFW roll despite SitW. I can't even imagine the odds. Obviously not going to happen often, but can haha.

Iron Arm also gives Eternal Warrior so the tervigon shouldn't have died due to the NFW.


If you are shooting at Flyrants, you would want to always pick Heavy 4 as you need 6s to hit anyway (so Snapfire isn't an additional detriment).

Yeah, I know. However, I made sure to keep my flyrants out of range of their 24"+6" psycannons in the first place. Besides, shooting at the flyrant is highly inefficient unless he could get his henchmen to pew pew him first in order to try to ground him. But then just the fact that my list include biovores forced him to reserve his most of his henchmen.

Normally, my philosophy is if there are other prime targets (i.e. tervigon), its better to try to shoot them at full BS than to fire snap-shots to a flyer/flying MC.


 undead flesh addict wrote:
Wow, that was a brutal game; I will never vote against your army again, I promise.
Great job

I don't win all the time, especially in my test games against myself.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/18 14:40:13



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
 
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