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Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






 Emicrania wrote:
I´m seriously thinking to start spamming GW IG and FB. Something on the lane of :


We are one of the major faction and we got last year an "Orktober" that was a joke......
Instead of giving us a motherloving $55 AUD, 25 €, $40 CAD, ¥4,700, $65 NZD, 220 NOK, 240 SEK, 200 DKK, £20, 35 US$ useless red GRETCHIN ?!

Spam away. I'll always support customers contacting GW with their opinion.

I snapped the red gobbo right up though. Hoping if it sells well it sends a message that a full revolushun army might be profitable.

The deffkilla is garbage. He needs rules adjustments I think, rather than a price cut.

For funzies has anyone ever compared the Squig Buggy (just shy of 150 pts) to a Lord Disco (160ish)? Like anyone, ever. Including the supposed play testers? Surely not.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/10 09:40:22


 
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





While there are a lot of valid points in that list, I suggest waiting until after PA3 and CA before going on rage train again.

Ork player have become infamous for being whiny because there are long threads about how we have it worst (we don't) after basically every release GW does.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in se
Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna






I think we have good codex that is aging horribly. I'll wait CA for the train rage thought

 
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





Oh, and a warning for all who are planning on getting the red gobbo: He doesn't come with any rules. Rumor has it that he is just going to be a fancy objective marker for a special mission.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Yay cry more.... We just have one of the best win rating Codex out there since release....
   
Made in se
Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna






T1nk4bell wrote:
Yay cry more.... We just have one of the best win rating Codex out there since release....


Gotta love the troll claims with no numbers or facts backing his gak up.

 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

*Had one of the best win rate codexes.

And even then, orks were just a stupid strong gatekeeper army. If you brought a list to deal with eldar, tau, admech, or any marine you probably got your face whacked off by pretty much any ork list because they played so radically different.
But then the main things causing that got nerfed and the new marine dex happened. Orks were VERY commonly in the top 8 or even top 4, but rarely actually won overall. Least that i noticed.

Im still eagerly waiting for CA19 and hoping to god they drop a ton of points on half our gak. Pretty much the entire FA and all except perhaps Badrukk for HQs need a price drop. Even the Weirdboy imo needs a slight drop, he simply dies WAY too easy to the mass abundance of snipers these days and now that marines have ignore-LOS snipers we cant even hide him (seriously who the gak thought that was a good idea).
There are numerous other issues but i dont see them being fixed via point drops and i dont think CA does any radical rule changings.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/11/10 14:11:24


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

9000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
4000pts Admech/Knights 
   
Made in se
Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna






The SM needs to go up 15-20% in points, some rule need nerf (again WTF is the point of rolling dice with 90%+ accuracy rate?) And all the old codex need buffs. I own BA, Nids and Daemons. Can't tell you how much hope will be crushed for me by this CA....

 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




I'm really hoping the Boss on Bike gets spared; he has an official FW model that sells well, and it's not like balancing a freaking Biker boss should take any effort. It's not like some weird janky FW model, it's something Orks have had for decades in their codex. The walking boss is just so, so bad by comparison.

I have the feeling that GW probably didn't understand the beast they were unleashing and the CA might be disappointing; it might be another 6-12 months of complete domination, depending how much they throw into their mid-year FAQ. If they actually were forward looking, a lot of armies might get some drops at least to compensate for the meta. SM being good is fine, but it's not healthy if they are getting 75%+ of top 4 placings.

Orks might drop a tier here in the interim, but we probably still have some tourny placing lists... they just might not be that fun to field. That one Ork player who piloted the 20 MANz has been attempting stuff like 360 grot lists. Hard for a repulsor to make up its points if it has to kill 110 grots.
Now that sounds like a NIGHTMARE to play with, but the Ork codex does still have some tricks it can probably pull.

I mostly play with friends / non-competitively so I probably won't be locked out of legend models, but yeah. I feel like some lists I've been brewing which seem really fun to play (2 squads of Nobs w/ Kustom shootas and Big Choppas in 1500 points) are going away. Real shame. If they just want me to field 3 SAGs and other shooty jank, they are certainly pushing me towards that.

I'm sure if you put down 15-18 Smasha Guns and 3 SAGs, you'll be able to roll in the meta. But god that's SO boring.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/11/10 17:30:11


 
   
Made in cz
Fresh-Faced New User





Prague

Aaaagh waiting for the CA is really annoying. It should be already there, isn't it? It sunk my creativity to painting another blob of boyz....

Well... last year it was Dec 15th, so another month...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/10 17:24:05


6000pt 
   
Made in ca
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot





Yeah, with the advent of the new design paradigm that the new SM book and supplements have established, Orks are in a far worse position than when we were first released as a proper 8th ed codex. Tying things in combat is not nearly as viable with shock assault and dakkaboats having fly (curse you repulsor executioners!) being a thing, alongside snipers being everywhere. The Ork codex needs a serious revision for some of the pricing for weaponry (i.e. rokkits and big shootas), and unfortunately some of the unit rules themselves 9looking at you burna boyz), but unfortunately that won't change anytime soon.

My milkshakes bring all the boys to the yard and they're like, hurr darry darr.


My suggestion to you is to get married, if you have a good wife you'll be happy, if you have a bad wife you'll become a philosopher. 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Douglasville, GA

I don't necessarily think we're in a bad place, but we have so many units that are too expensive for their durability and damage output. CA could definitely help there, but we're 100% gonna see some increases too (particularly the Smasha, but maybe even Lootas and Gretchin). We also have a problem with some "useless" units, Kulturz, Powers, and Strats, which likely won't get fixed until a new Edition, if GW doesn't give everyone the Marine treatment.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/11 05:04:32


 
   
Made in se
Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna






Imho
QRaise gretchin to 4 pt is an abomination.
Lootas are fine as they are after the nerf.
Smasha per se, are NOT a problem . 31 points for 1d3 s2d6 and 6w t5 5+ is such an offensive gamble and an easy KP that sometimes, especially in itc, all they do is giving up kill and kill more. The problem is 18 smashaguns. Maybe a Max 3 unit x 3 , so 9, would feel more adequate

 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Douglasville, GA

I agree with all of these sentiments. Unfortunately, GW rarely looks for the reasons WHY things are good and just goes full-ham on point increases. They see everyone taking Gretchin, and those lists winning a lot, and say "guess Gretchin are overpowered" instead of "I guess Gretchin help make mediocre to good units better by fueling Stratagems".
   
Made in eu
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





 Emicrania wrote:
Imho
QRaise gretchin to 4 pt is an abomination.
Lootas are fine as they are after the nerf.
Smasha per se, are NOT a problem . 31 points for 1d3 s2d6 and 6w t5 5+ is such an offensive gamble and an easy KP that sometimes, especially in itc, all they do is giving up kill and kill more. The problem is 18 smashaguns. Maybe a Max 3 unit x 3 , so 9, would feel more adequate


This. People are taking grechin because boyz aren't doing their job well - whether it be at 12, 20 or 30. All they can do is distract the enemy from shooting something more valuable and generate a ~200 point advantage through green tide.
I'm sure gretchin would get pushed out if truck or wagon boyz were better. On top of that, you usually see 3 units of boyz and 3 or 6 units of gretchin now. That's pretty healthy if you consider that there are just two choices of troops.

Lootas are by no means mandatory anymore, we have seen multiple lists using tank bustas or flash gits in their place. Having three units with similar roles be interchangeable is exactly how it shot be. Any nerf would just kill them.

Smashas are a weird problem. You get the right amount of shooting for their points, but way to many wounds when spammed. Reducing unit size to 3 would actually be an awesome fix, but I fear their might just be a points increase coming instead, which will then just make orks move to KMK or tractor cannon spam.
In general, mek guns would be in a much better place when you upscale them to roughly twice the points per gun, increasing firepower accordingly.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, with the advent of the new design paradigm that the new SM book and supplements have established, Orks are in a far worse position than when we were first released as a proper 8th ed codex. Tying things in combat is not nearly as viable with shock assault and dakkaboats having fly (curse you repulsor executioners!) being a thing, alongside snipers being everywhere. The Ork codex needs a serious revision for some of the pricing for weaponry (i.e. rokkits and big shootas), and unfortunately some of the unit rules themselves 9looking at you burna boyz), but unfortunately that won't change anytime soon.


I have been saying since 8th dropped that Rokkitz and Big Shoota's are either heavily overpriced or in need of a heavy buff. Rokkitz need a hefty price cut. 12pts for a single shot ranged 24 weapon on a model with BS5 is just absurd. For the Big Shoota, I am of the opinion that it can stay at its current price, but you need to basically double its RoF and even then it would be questionable to take. Kustom Shoota's need a bump as well, they are in a bad place and need some love.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 flandarz wrote:
I don't necessarily think we're in a bad place, but we have so many units that are too expensive for their durability and damage output. CA could definitely help there, but we're 100% gonna see some increases too (particularly the Smasha, but maybe even Lootas and Gretchin). We also have a problem with some "useless" units, Kulturz, Powers, and Strats, which likely won't get fixed until a new Edition, if GW doesn't give everyone the Marine treatment.


Smasha's are fine where they are. They are glass cannons and actually do their job relatively well. Lootas are not OP in the slightest, and the irony is that in order to field them you need at a minimum 30 to 90pts of Grotz to shield them or they die turn 1. Grotz....If you increase the points cost of Grotz then you might as well just admit the point of orkz is to be a NPC race to let the speese mehreens win every game. At 4ppm a grot is the same cost as a Imperial Guardsman who has better Movement, WS, more S, T and leadership and a better save. Their weapon is also 24 as opposed to 12 and is rapid fire. Ohh, and throw in a CC and those IG are laying down some serious firepower.

if Grotz need a points adjustment at all its DOWN to 2ppm not UP to 4. Grotz are literally garbage in every single way possible EXCEPT to sit on an objective, give CP and be used as a meatshield.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/11 11:45:05


If at first you don't succeed then Sky Diving isn't for you. 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Jidmah wrote:
Smashas are a weird problem. You get the right amount of shooting for their points, but way to many wounds when spammed. Reducing unit size to 3 would actually be an awesome fix, but I fear their might just be a points increase coming instead, which will then just make orks move to KMK or tractor cannon spam.
In general, mek guns would be in a much better place when you upscale them to roughly twice the points per gun, increasing firepower accordingly.


Would also mean basically 50-50 you get one shot out of your mek guns. Other half the time you are lucky if you get to shoot with 1. Killing 8 mek guns a turn isn't much of an issue these days.

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/29/tneva82-daemon-of-an-ancient-world/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

Big Shootas need a damn AP on them.
Heavy versions of the troop gun usually gets an AP, ours doesnt.

With their current RoF i dont really have a problem landing hits, or wounding, but its not enough to punch through 3+/2+ armor since thats the bulk of what we face these days.

Had they been AP-1 i dont think i would be complaining about them currently.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

9000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
4000pts Admech/Knights 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Douglasville, GA

Guys, I agree that none of those things need a nerf. I just think that GW will nerf them anyway, because it's GW.

8 a turn? Maybe, but it won't be cost-effective to do so. Mek Gunz are in a weird place where there's not really a cost-effective way to take them out. From the 5T, 6W, and 4+Sv to splitting into different units on deployment, there's a pretty big window for under-damaging or over-damaging them and not a lot of weapons that wouldn't prefer to be shooting something else.

For example, 15 BadMoonz Lootaz, double-shooting, are gonna kill about 4 Mek Gunz a turn on average (after shooting twice) and the chance they'll over or under kill one of them is pretty high. So, you'd have used a 250+ pt unit (and 1 CP) to take out 124 pts of Mek Gunz
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





tneva82 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Smashas are a weird problem. You get the right amount of shooting for their points, but way to many wounds when spammed. Reducing unit size to 3 would actually be an awesome fix, but I fear their might just be a points increase coming instead, which will then just make orks move to KMK or tractor cannon spam.
In general, mek guns would be in a much better place when you upscale them to roughly twice the points per gun, increasing firepower accordingly.


Would also mean basically 50-50 you get one shot out of your mek guns. Other half the time you are lucky if you get to shoot with 1. Killing 8 mek guns a turn isn't much of an issue these days.


Killing 8 mek guns a turn is not a problem if you can bring 18. Except for your wallet, of course.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





That's issue if you have just one unit shooting. Usually people have many so if one big unit splits and underkill's some odd lascannon here or there finishes. Helverin's are popping 2 a turn. And shuriken cannon storm just munches them. 6 is as good as quaranteed death. 8 something might survive. Record i have had is lose all 12. Bleh. Better load with gorkanauts etc along as well

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/29/tneva82-daemon-of-an-ancient-world/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 flandarz wrote:
Guys, I agree that none of those things need a nerf. I just think that GW will nerf them anyway, because it's GW.

8 a turn? Maybe, but it won't be cost-effective to do so. Mek Gunz are in a weird place where there's not really a cost-effective way to take them out. From the 5T, 6W, and 4+Sv to splitting into different units on deployment, there's a pretty big window for under-damaging or over-damaging them and not a lot of weapons that wouldn't prefer to be shooting something else.

For example, 15 BadMoonz Lootaz, double-shooting, are gonna kill about 4 Mek Gunz a turn on average (after shooting twice) and the chance they'll over or under kill one of them is pretty high. So, you'd have used a 250+ pt unit (and 1 CP) to take out 124 pts of Mek Gunz


Agreed. When I was getting back into 8th I used some mek guns, and my opponent focussed on them as he had read so many things about them - and my trukks all emerged from the enemies turn 1 unscathed. I won that game.

Orks in 8th, W/D/L
7/0/3 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Jidmah wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Smashas are a weird problem. You get the right amount of shooting for their points, but way to many wounds when spammed. Reducing unit size to 3 would actually be an awesome fix, but I fear their might just be a points increase coming instead, which will then just make orks move to KMK or tractor cannon spam.
In general, mek guns would be in a much better place when you upscale them to roughly twice the points per gun, increasing firepower accordingly.


Would also mean basically 50-50 you get one shot out of your mek guns. Other half the time you are lucky if you get to shoot with 1. Killing 8 mek guns a turn isn't much of an issue these days.


Killing 8 mek guns a turn is not a problem if you can bring 18. Except for your wallet, of course.


Point being if they limit them to 9 max you have 50-50 of actually getting to shoot more than 1-3 once. Half the time they just soak up at fire for a turn and that's it.

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/29/tneva82-daemon-of-an-ancient-world/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Random thought - what about putting mek guns in a tellyporta?

they don't split until they deploy, and you can have 6 guns positioned wherever you like (even behind the enemy), in response to their turn 1-2 (depending who goes first), giving you more space to deploy them. Plus, you get a full battery of shots, albeit at BS5+ rather than 4+, and have your first turn to try and take out or draw out the stuff that can hurt them. They could also plop on an objective, which is always useful.

Orks in 8th, W/D/L
7/0/3 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

isnt generally the point of them is you want the anti-vehicle crap to target them and not the nauts/wagons because theyre so laughably cheap for their durability?

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

9000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
4000pts Admech/Knights 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




I doubt grots will get a change. They are perfectly suited as is. 4 ppm without any statline boost would be beyond stupid.

If Orks get point cost increases, it'll be on other units. Good point re: mek guns, though. I think effectively HALVING our wounds for similar firepower and cost (if Smasha Guns go up) is a big enough nerf, though, but it'll be interesting Mek Gunz will largely be the same. I can't imagine them pushing up traktor kannons or KMBs, as they are not fine for their cost.
Fun fact: I love how traktor kannons are basically mobile artillery, as they get zero penalty for moving and shooting. Shame they move 3" a turn at most, but I still find it funny.

Big Shootas are trash. I understand why they think they are worth 5 points a model, but you need to buy two just to expect a wound on a t3-5 model. When a Big Shoota could get a lucky shot and kill a terminator or marine, it was nice. But with so many multiwound models out there so you aren't really getting a lucky random dead model, and with the fact you can teleport your boyz ahead, I'd rather just save the 5 points and take a Shoota. It's not that much worse and it's free.

At AP-1, it might have an argument for it's cost. As is, it should probably be 2-3 points. And it would still probably rarely see use.

Rokkits are much better, but overpriced. The fact you can combo it with stuff like Deathskullz means they are actually pretty accurate, they can threaten basically any vehicle in the game, and they are effective against heavy infantry. They should probably come down to 8 ppm, because we are paying a premium for it on our BS5 models. Tankbustas should probably increase in base cost (I'm not super bothered by their current cost) to compensate.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/11 17:21:57


 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

Rokkits i feel need to be careful with making cheaper. At 12p each they feel a bit pricy, but they hit so dang hard that sometimes they just shred things. 8p both sounds about right and too low to me.
Burnas/skorchas should drop drastically though i feel. Burnas are a fething joke with D3 shots (oh but you get the Ap in melee! on 3x cost boyz with no extra defenses or numbers so 2 attacks each at S4....big whoop. A squad of Nobz with ChoppaChoppa does more damage than that...). Both of them have the same major issue though of that range is so bad and the units that can use them are so squishy you simply CANT use them more than once, and theyre nowhere near strong enough to justify a "one and done" attack.
I often forget my gork even HAS a skorcha because i rarely am even close enough to use the dang thing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/11 17:26:44


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

9000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
4000pts Admech/Knights 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Douglasville, GA

Can't put Mek Gunz into a Tellyporta because they have the GRETCHIN keyword. Same for Kanz. Sadly.

I'm sure people CAN wipe 8 Gunz a turn, but that much firepower is gonna mean they'll be ignoring other threats on the board, and I consider that a good trade. Anything that diverts attention from a mob of Boyz I can Da Jump up is a solid investment, especially at that low of a point cost.
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob






This kind of comes back to the question of why they thought Boyz were justified at 7 points a model.

Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Douglasville, GA

Burnas (and Skorchas) really need a +2" range, and even then they might be over-priced by about 3-4 pts. Auto-hits and AP don't mean diddly if the unit consistently dies before getting in a shot.

Boyz... ain't too bad at 7ppm, but I DO miss the 6ppm days...
   
 
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