Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Why so bad. A question I've pondered for some time but for some reason have never asked. Its not terrible but for a race that's "older than the stars themselves" so to speak, you would think that they would be pretty damn good at shooting and hitting with all aspects of their technology.

Is it due to them being driven by.. well guardians? ..lol, I never thought of that.

I think I've answered my own question here, but it still remains that you would think they would be trained to shoot better? as its not listed as guardian vyper jetbikes or guardian falcons.

Any other takes on this?

It's pretty much the "guardians as crew" thing. In the fluff only the Aspects are really trained for war, with guardians having a 'natural' BS of 3 (as opposed to a human guardsman who trains daily and is still BS3). They simply don't have the numbers to keep a standing army. Although quite why they can't crew vehicles with ex-aspects (Eldar who had previously trod the Path of the Warrior) for the extra BS...

Go Corsairs...BS4.

They're also a dying race, and you figure Eldar who can fight are going to be the first ones to die while the gardeners, poets and flower arrangers stay home till they're drafted.

Anyway, BS3 is not supposed to be bad, in fact it's good, the IG are skilled warriors chosen from the best regiments in the Imperium. Fire Warriors are a caste dedicated to war. Even BS2 reflects some level of training and enthusiasm.

BS4 only feels 'normal' because there are so many marine players.

Really the problem is GW's continued use of the very constrained d6 system.

The bigger Eldar vehicles are supposed to be crewed by veteran pilots, aren't they? Not just random off the street Eldar.

I seem to remember that pilots had their own Aspect/Path as well, although I can't find the reference right now.

Both very true there guys. I've been away from my Eldar for 8+ years odd and never really played them. Been playing my black templars, so I'm used to SM BS I suppose.

Although it still seems odd that eldar are trained to pilot the war machines but lack the training to shoot better. Plus the point that they are really old race even with small numbers they have time to perfect shooting, that and being few in number shooting to hit and kill would be high on the to do list.

Maybe I'm trying to compare fluff/lore to actual game play here(shrug), either way looking forward to fielding them once again.

The Fire Prism, though, has had BS4 since it was introduced.
It was the ONLY one that had enhanced targeting as standard (there was an add-on for other eldar vehicles that did the same for them, though).

In fact, Eldar tank are driven by Guardians - Poets and Philosophers.
Not sure why the Fire Prism has a higher BS.

Like I said, the prism has always had better BS BECAUSE IT HAD AN ENHANCED TARGETING SYSTEM. Not unlike the one that Dark Reapers used to have.

This was part of the fluff when it was introduced (2nd edition) in the WD issue with it's datafax cards and upgrade cards. They've just left the BS stat as it was since then.

Anyway, BS3 is not supposed to be bad, in fact it's good, the IG are skilled warriors chosen from the best regiments in the Imperium. Fire Warriors are a caste dedicated to war. Even BS2 reflects some level of training and enthusiasm.

BS4 only feels 'normal' because there are so many marine players.

Really the problem is GW's continued use of the very constrained d6 system.

Echoed completely. Space Marines are the unfortunate standard because so many people play them, even though they are supposed to be above the normal standard of abilities. Eldar BS is a different version of the normal middle- of- the- road "good". I see the reflection of their racial quality as their higher Initiative ranges in the codex.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Anyway, BS3 is not supposed to be bad, in fact it's good, the IG are skilled warriors chosen from the best regiments in the Imperium. Fire Warriors are a caste dedicated to war. Even BS2 reflects some level of training and enthusiasm.

BS4 only feels 'normal' because there are so many marine players.

Really the problem is GW's continued use of the very constrained d6 system.

Echoed completely. Space Marines are the unfortunate standard because so many people play them, even though they are supposed to be above the normal standard of abilities. Eldar BS is a different version of the normal middle- of- the- road "good". I see the reflection of their racial quality as their higher Initiative ranges in the codex.

Space Marines and Necrons, though the latter are the most techologically advanced uber-race in the 40k universe.

and their brothers Dark Eldars have all BS4.

 Makutsu wrote:
and their brothers Dark Eldars have all BS4.

Course they are all fighters, warriors, raiders, and torturers, not to mention the fact that most of them have been around far longer due to the regenerative tanks and cloning devices and those things they do to stave off Slaanesh, some are as old as the Fall of Eldar Kind itself.

The bit that gets me is that with all the advanced tech the Eldar have, they forget to put it in the most expensive wargear they have.
Baring Apoc-sized stuff like the aircraft and titans, surely they would use some extra tech to help the chef fire his Falcon's laser....
You'd think that a pulse laser would have a targetting laser built in.
A grav-tank is able to dodge bullets, but can't shoot for toffee

 Skinnereal wrote:
The bit that gets me is that with all the advanced tech the Eldar have, they forget to put it in the most expensive wargear they have.
Baring Apoc-sized stuff like the aircraft and titans, surely they would use some extra tech to help the chef fire his Falcon's laser....
You'd think that a pulse laser would have a targetting laser built in.
A grav-tank is able to dodge bullets, but can't shoot for toffee

They used to be able to take Crystal Targetting Matrixes in 3rd, no clue why it was removed in the 4th.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
They used to be able to take Crystal Targetting Matrixes in 3rd, no clue why it was removed in the 4th.

That'd explain why it comes in the FW parts kit, then.

But, Eldar vehicles have enough expensive upgrades.
At least we used to have the choice.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:
and their brothers Dark Eldars have all BS4.

Course they are all fighters, warriors, raiders, and torturers, not to mention the fact that most of them have been around far longer due to the regenerative tanks and cloning devices and those things they do to stave off Slaanesh, some are as old as the Fall of Eldar Kind itself.

I thought they had that stone to make Eldars immortal or something like that

 Makutsu wrote:
I thought they had that stone to make Eldars immortal or something like that

Craftworld Eldar carry a Spiritstone (aka Waystone) that captures their soul after death to stop She-Who-Thirsts (Slaanesh) from eating / torturing them for all eternity.
So yeah, they're immortal. An immortal rock... (Wraithguard and Wraithlords are machines animated by these souls).

Dark Eldar manipulate their genes, clone themselves and siphon other peoples souls etc. to stay alive forever.