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Got a awesome match up between Hive Fleet Pandora and my Eldar. Enjoy
http://youtu.be/1ZjVLbbkMpg

Thanks for the report, and you've got a strong army

What would be problematic for this list?
I'm thinking not getting 1st turn and receiving high Str. large blasts on the council / drop podding heavy flamers whithout having a chance to get fortune up?
The troop section seems easy to destroy; an opponent focussing on them while feeding speedbumps to the deathstars might work?

Wow, strong list. DE and Eldar have some of the best combinations in the game right now think, not too many folks have capitalized on them all yet which is exciting.

Here are the lists again (it goes by really quickly in the videorep):


1750 Hive Fleet Pandora (Jy2)

Flyrant - 2x TL-Devourers
Flyrant - 2x TL-Devourers

Doom of Ma'lantai - Mycetic Spore
3x Hive Guards
2x Zoanthropes

Tervigon - Adrenal Glands, Catalyst, Cluster Spines, Onslaught, Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs
10x Termagants
Tervigon - Adrenal Glands, Catalyst, Cluster Spines, Onslaught, Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs
10x Termagants

15x Gargoyles - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs

2x Biovores
2x Biovores



1750 Eldar / Dark Eldar (SonsofGrant)

Farseer - Jetbike, Doom, Fortune, Spirit Stones, Runes of Warding/Witnessing
Eldrad
Baron

10x Seer Council - Jetbikes, 4x Destructors, Enhance, Embolden

3x Guardian Jetbikes
3x Guardian Jetbikes
3x Guardian Jetbikes
10x Kabalite Warriors - 1x Splinter Cannon
10x Kabalite Warriors - 1x Splinter Cannon

Beastmasters - 5x Beastmasters, 8x Khymerae, 6x Razorwings

Aegis Defense Line - Quad-guns


-------------------------------------------------------------------


We played the BAO scenario with Victory Points (Purge the Alien) as Primary (worth 4-pts) and the Scouring as Secondary (3-pts).


I went after his beastmasters first because I knew how deadly they were in combat. Thanks to my alpha-strike, I effectively neutered their fangs initially with Precision Shots from my 2 flyrants, killing most of his offense - his razorwing flocks. Unfortunately for me, with his limited number of shots, Grant still took out my swooping Warlord flyrant on Turn 1 due to poor saves on my part, thus giving him both Warlord and First Blood as well as taking out a huge part of my offense. Then I couldn't lock his beastmasters in combat due to the Baron. I swear, that guy is a pain. Not quite as bad as Eldrad, but I'm putting him in my Top 10 Most Hated list.

I knew his seer council was ultra-resilient. However, what took me by surprise was how good they were in assault as well. With Doom and Prescience, they were just killing a ton of my gribblies before I could even attack! And it didn't help that Grant was making all his re-rollable saves. Overall, I maybe killed only 2 warlocks the entire game!

Eldar/Dark Eldar is an alliance that is here to stay. They are really, really good together. This is the second build that I've played against (with the first being Frankie's Dark Harliestar) where I've had a lot of problems against....and I even got the 1st turn alpha-strike against them! Like my tyranids, Deldar is definitely a dark horse army that can certainly win tournaments. It will surprise some people when he takes them to the Bay Area Open. He just dominated my army in this game!

Great game, Grant. I'll see you at the BAO.

That was a good game. The Eldar list looks like it had a couple of counters, but its also definitely one that I would not want to see in a tournament. As a fellow bug player, this is one of three lists I genuinely don't want to play against. If I were Jy2, I'm not sure what I'd do differently. Maybe just hold back and spawn a lot until I had enough to lock him up for a while

 jifel wrote:
That was a good game. The Eldar list looks like it had a couple of counters, but its also definitely one that I would not want to see in a tournament. As a fellow bug player, this is one of three lists I genuinely don't want to play against. If I were Jy2, I'm not sure what I'd do differently. Maybe just hold back and spawn a lot until I had enough to lock him up for a while

Don't worry. There is a rematch (already played) and for the 2nd game, I will be doing the battle report to go with it. I learned a lot from the first game.

BTW, just FYI for our rematch:

- Eldar went first, so no alpha-strike before psychic powers casted.

- Eldrad got Misfortune! That means that because he is Eldrad, he gets to cast it twice!

- Both tervigons ran out of gants on their first spawning attempt!


On the bright side, I got Endurance for every single psychic unit other than the Doom.

Seer-council is one of the strongest Deathstars. It got a huge boost in 6th ed with Baron being able to join the squad and Hit + Run. We didn't see that in this game.

I really like SonsofGrant's list. Beastmaster w/ Eldrad and Baron is like a second Deathstar. Lots of offense and Guardian Jetbikes are one of the most elusive scoring units in the game.

Good btrp, thanks for sharing!

I look forward to reading Jy2's rematch.

Thank you for the extra info, Jy2, much appreciated.

Tyranids have some problems when they can't reliably cast their psychic powers.

So is Eldrad usually taking divination not telepathy? He runs with the beastmaster pack of course. How did Runes spoil your psychic casting? You have SitW no? Other than perils of course.

 SabrX wrote:
Seer-council is one of the strongest Deathstars. It got a huge boost in 6th ed with Baron being able to join the squad and Hit + Run. We didn't see that in this game.

I really like SonsofGrant's list. Beastmaster w/ Eldrad and Baron is like a second Deathstar. Lots of offense and Guardian Jetbikes are one of the most elusive scoring units in the game.

Good btrp, thanks for sharing!

I look forward to reading Jy2's rematch.

I wouldn't go so far as to say the Seer-Council is one of the strongest deathstars (I would probably give that honor to paladins the the Dark Harliestar), but they are definitely the fastest. They will have problems against massed 2+ armies, FNP marines or horde armies because they just can't produce the volume of attacks necessary to deal with those type of armies. Also, if the opponent gets the alpha-strike on them before they've had the chance to cast their psychic powers, that could really hurt as well. But what I really like about them is their ultra-mobility and the Baron's ability to get them out of combat they don't want to be stuck in. This just makes them so hard to deal with.

And yeah, his army is really good. It may not be able to kill flyers, but good luck killing both of his deathstars. Even a full-on Necron airforce with 9+ flyers may not be able to do that.

 Nivoglibina wrote:
Thank you for the extra info, Jy2, much appreciated.

You're welcome.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Tyranids have some problems when they can't reliably cast their psychic powers.

Oh yeah.

They also have problems against massed poisoned weapons. Iron Arm is all but useless against splinter rifles, rending and witchblades.

 felixcat wrote:

So is Eldrad usually taking divination not telepathy? He runs with the beastmaster pack of course. How did Runes spoil your psychic casting? You have SitW no? Other than perils of course.

In this game, Eldrad got Prescience, Hallucination, Puppet Master and another power that he didn't really use. I was fortunate that he didn't get Invisibility or Misfortune. Yeah, he ran with the beastpack.

Runes cause me to Perils 3 times on Turn 1. Then I would take an occasional wound each turn until I stopped casting. Yeah, in this game it really affected my psychic powers. Shadows in the Warp just cancels out with Runes of Witnessing according to the FAQ (or so my opponent told me, I didn't check). However, his seer council has also got Embolden which also allows him to re-roll failed psychic tests. Basically, I didn't stop 1 single power from going off and also failed all of my Deny tests.

This is just the nemesis arm for Nids, lots of poison, shutting down your psychic tests. And his army is to fast so he will dictate the game. Would love to see him play Wraiths & Flyers, he wont be that happy i can assure you.

Why the full troops and not 5 man in Venoms? as much shots and more movable thinking more about:
5 guys, blaster w/ venom, nightshields

I have a friend who plays the Eldar/Dark Eldar list. His major differences are that he plays two Beast Master Death Stars instead of one and one Seer Council. He uses the Baron and Maugan Rah believe it or not. He includes Maugan to make one of his deathstars fearless. He's been playing the list since 6th ed came out and Ive thrown everything at it, bugs, IG templates, Thunderfire cannons.

I had success the last game I played using the Banner of Devastation, Ravenwing bikers and an invisble Ravenwing Assault Squad. The volume of fire combined with reducing his toughness by one from the Rad Grenade Launcher and having one of his deathstars attacking at WS1 due to invisibility tipped things in my favor enough to eek out a win finally.

The toughest parts of his list has been the resiliency, speed AND slipperiness of his death stars, the sheer firepower of his support elements AND the mobility of his troop selections.

He placed sixth at the NOVA tournie with his DearkEldar/Eldar army - its here to stay.

Very similar Eldar/DE list just won Templecon in RI:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/484661.page

 Valek wrote:
This is just the nemesis arm for Nids, lots of poison, shutting down your psychic tests. And his army is to fast so he will dictate the game. Would love to see him play Wraiths & Flyers, he wont be that happy i can assure you.

Why the full troops and not 5 man in Venoms? as much shots and more movable thinking more about:
5 guys, blaster w/ venom, nightshields

It's not as bad as most would think. It's a tough matchup for bugs, but it isn't exactly cakewalk for Deldar either IMO. It's the lack of shooting that hurts Deldar in this case. But yeah, he would get to dictate the game against most opponents. As for wraithwing necrons, that would be an interesting game indeed. The only weakness for necrons is that they have no psychic defense, so depending on what powers eldar gets, even the crons may have a tough time.

I'm not sure as to why not a MSU venom unit. It seems as foot is the prefered style on the net. Probably because it is just too easy to shoot down the venom and kill some guys from the explosion. Perhaps people feel that a 10-man foot unit is much more resilient and in this case, resiliency is more important than firepower.

 kaiservonhugal wrote:
I have a friend who plays the Eldar/Dark Eldar list. His major differences are that he plays two Beast Master Death Stars instead of one and one Seer Council. He uses the Baron and Maugan Rah believe it or not. He includes Maugan to make one of his deathstars fearless. He's been playing the list since 6th ed came out and Ive thrown everything at it, bugs, IG templates, Thunderfire cannons.

I had success the last game I played using the Banner of Devastation, Ravenwing bikers and an invisble Ravenwing Assault Squad. The volume of fire combined with reducing his toughness by one from the Rad Grenade Launcher and having one of his deathstars attacking at WS1 due to invisibility tipped things in my favor enough to eek out a win finally.

The toughest parts of his list has been the resiliency, speed AND slipperiness of his death stars, the sheer firepower of his support elements AND the mobility of his troop selections.

He placed sixth at the NOVA tournie with his DearkEldar/Eldar army - its here to stay.

Yeah, I saw his Nova list, though that list only had 1 unit of beastpack:

Baron
Maugan ra

10 warriors with splinter cannon
10 warriors with splinter cannon
3 guardian jet bikes with shuriken cannon
3 guardian jet bikes with shuriken cannon

3 trueborn with haywire and two splinter cannons
3 trueborn with haywire and plasma and two splinter cannons
5 fire dragons with exarch with tank hunters and crack shot

6 reaver jet bikes with two heat lances
6 reaver jet bikes with two heat lances
5 beast masters with 8 razorwing flocks and 5 kymarae

2 war walkers with double scatter lasers
Talos with liquifier and splinter cannon
Talos with liquifier and splinter cannon
Cronos with spirit vortex

Imperial bastion

 InquisitorMack wrote:
Very similar Eldar/DE list just won Templecon in RI:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/484661.page

Yeah, I saw that thread. I'll post Sean's list here for the benefit of the readers:

Baron Sathonyx
Asdrubael Vect
Eldrad

5 Fire Dragons – Exarch with crack shot and tank hunters

15 Wyches - haywire, hekatix PGL, venom blade
14 Wyches - haywire, hekatix PGL, venom blade
20 Warriors - 2 splinter cannons, Sybarite
2x3 Guardian jetbikes

3x3 True Born - 2 splinter cannons

5 Beast masters - 5 kymerra, 8 razorwings
1 Beast master – 2 razorwings
1 Beast master – 2 razorwings

Aegis Defense line - quad gun


All are very good lists in the right hands and all the generals in this case were very good players. I'm not surprised that they did as well as they did. Re-rollable 2+ invuln's or cover is just broken. Damn good but broken.

Maybe Sean will reply but the latest list posted is a bit different - at 2000 he iss adding reaver jetbikes with heatlance, has single beastmaster pack and no fire dragons. But that is close to it. There is battle report from jawaballs somewhere online - his latest victim. Unfortunately the beastpack is no longer under the radar. It is getting well known. We have been toying with variants up north in Canada for awhile. Sean has it down to a science though. The thing is guys are using flyers that enter turns two and three. By then the list is hitting combat and the game is virtually over. Gunlines sitting back have it worse. With no mid-field presence you can simply pick the weakest flank and fold it and then work your way in. We have looked at 3 different iterations of the list ... dual deathstar - with seer council, more balanced with a bit more eldar - fire dragons, et all, and sean's prototype. Right now we are focusing on the dual deathstar as well. Personally I like how it functions. We are now testing at 2000, a small squad of wracks instead of warriors to man the quad and some swooping hawks playing skyleap to augment the list. This is why i've asked so many questions. We must have played at least three hours last night and are currently play testing today to get ready for a few upcoming tournies. I find that telepathy is better than divination - invisibility even in the dual deathstar seems superior.

Does the list have weaknesses - oh yeh. Sean seems luckier than us. I thought I was playing it wrong for awhile. Our results are very decent but there are numerous counters ... blocking rhinos Str 6, large blast templates, cover denying weapons ... You cannot bubble wrap against templates. You cannot prevent an incinerator from flaming you - GK Dreadknights, heldrakes, etc. So there are hard counters. However, the dual deathstar has great mobility and leaves less openings for these weapons ... in combat they are usually mitigated.

 felixcat wrote:

Maybe Sean will reply but the latest list posted is a bit different - at 2000 he iss adding reaver jetbikes with heatlance, has single beastmaster pack and no fire dragons. But that is close to it. There is battle report from jawaballs somewhere online - his latest victim. Unfortunately the beastpack is no longer under the radar. It is getting well known. We have been toying with variants up north in Canada for awhile. Sean has it down to a science though. The thing is guys are using flyers that enter turns two and three. By then the list is hitting combat and the game is virtually over. Gunlines sitting back have it worse. With no mid-field presence you can simply pick the weakest flank and fold it and then work your way in. We have looked at 3 different iterations of the list ... dual deathstar - with seer council, more balanced with a bit more eldar - fire dragons, et all, and sean's prototype. Right now we are focusing on the dual deathstar as well. Personally I like how it functions. We are now testing at 2000, a small squad of wracks instead of warriors to man the quad and some swooping hawks playing skyleap to augment the list. This is why i've asked so many questions. We must have played at least three hours last night and are currently play testing today to get ready for a few upcoming tournies. I find that telepathy is better than divination - invisibility even in the dual deathstar seems superior.

Does the list have weaknesses - oh yeh. Sean seems luckier than us. I thought I was playing it wrong for awhile. Our results are very decent but there are numerous counters ... blocking rhinos Str 6, large blast templates, cover denying weapons ... You cannot bubble wrap against templates. You cannot prevent an incinerator from flaming you - GK Dreadknights, heldrakes, etc. So there are hard counters. However, the dual deathstar has great mobility and leaves less openings for these weapons ... in combat they are usually mitigated.

Honestly, for the people who know about DE, beastpacks were never under the radar. We all know how good and dangerous they are. Everytime I've played against them, I've managed to wipe them out from focused offense because I know what they would do to my units were they to hit me at full force. Sean's list may change a little, just like my tyranids may change a little, but the core will still be the same.

Every superman has his kryptonite. As with all deathstar armies, deldar has weaknesses that can be exploited. That is just inherent in any "unbalanced" army (and they are intentionally unbalanced). Deathstar armies fall into this category. You can cover up this "unbalance" somewhat with the right complementary "support" units, but it will never go away completely. The trick is, does your army have the tools to exploit their "weakness"? In a deldar deathstar alliance, I believe their main weakness is against alpha-strike armies who go first. If you can do enough damage to them before they get the chance to cast their psychic powers, then you have a very good chance to beat them. But that is easier said than done.