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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Hey guys now I am considering buying the Mantic Undead boxset for a start to a Vampire Counts army which I want to do (will probably end up buying a few of them) however I saw that it also comnes with a Kings of War rulebook so how different is Kings of War from Warhammer Fantasy? also how different are the undead in terms of game play?
   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

First of all, I've played Warhammer since 5th edition. I find KoW to be a much better rule set-there are no outrageous super combos to win the game, you'll win on skill. Differences to list out for ease of typing:
-Each unit can purchase a magic item
-Characters do not go in units
-Units of 20+ infantry or 10+ cavalry allow you to buy characters/warmachines/monsters
-You play only during your own turn: roll to hit, roll against your opponents defense, roll to see if you break them
-Melee is where it's at: shooting has enough modifiers to supplement attacks, but most damage will be done in hand to hand
-Whole unit stays on the table until it breaks: you don't remove models individually

Undead stuff:
-Each dead unit (zombies, skellies, revanants, etc) gets to regain a wound on the unit when it does wounds
-A unit upgrade allows you to regain the AMOUNT of wounds you cause, but may burn out
-Necromancers can give you additional movement during the shooting phase that can count as a charge

Verdict? Give it a try. The game is a lot of fun, and you'll win on your merits, not on how broken of a list you took. It's a lot more chess-like than Warhammer, and there is nothing outrageous that can decimate an opponent in a single shot. Enjoy.

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.  
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Is there any kind of magic in the game at all? Similar to how Vampire counts have Necromancy? Also is it easy to learn and pick up
   
Made in us
Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot





Pullman, WA

Very little magic, especially not in a WHFB "Pick your spell from a list" style magic.

There are only 4 spells (iirc):
Heal (roll X dice, each 4+ heals 1 on a unit nearby),
Dark Surge (The necromancer thing timetowaste mentioned, roll X dice,each 4+ moves a nearby unit forward 1" which is nice as the udnead are mostly slow and can't march)
Breath Weapon (Basically a flamethrower attack, rolls X dice vs enemy within 1 foot, always hits on a 4+ regardless of modifiers, so nice for tagging guys in cover or with stealth modifiers)
Zap! (Like Breath Weapon, but 24" range and it also gets a +1 on rolls to damage enemy)

Some people have put out fan supplements with more traditional magic systems, but this is all that's in the base official KoW game

Imagine the feeling when you position your tanks, engines idling, landing gear deployed for a low profile, with firing solutions along a key bottleneck. Then some fether lands a dreadnought behind them in a giant heat shielded coke can.

The Ironwatch Magazine

My personal blog 
   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

Mantic is also supposedly putting more magic into the next book coming out, which if memory serves me, is supposed to be soon.

As to your other question, yes, it is very easy to learn. The book is rather simple, the only issue I've ever seen come up is if shambling models (can't make march moves) that have vanguard (may make a march move before game starts) can benefit from said vanguard rule and have a pre-game march. Mantic ruled that, yes, they do. That's the first thing I've seen need an FAQ, as the rules are all very tight.

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.  
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Thats good then
   
Made in gb
Major





You won't have as many in game arguments, thats one major difference.

"And if we've learnt anything over the past 1000 mile retreat it's that Russian agriculture is in dire need of mechanisation!" 
   
Made in gb
Sniping Hexa




Luton, UK

Feel free to take a look at the rules here:

http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/File/KINGS%20OF%20WAR/KoW-MRB-Rules-Web.pdf

And the Undead army list here:

http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/File/KINGS%20OF%20WAR/Undead%20Army%20List%202012.pdf


“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.” 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






For the most part you can use Vampire Counts units as is in both games.

However if you want the units to be good for Kings of War only you can do a unit up as a small diorama - miniatures are not removed from the unit, so you can have some fun with it. (Tinracer over on Beasts of War has a WiP undead army titled Violet Death that is something that makes me insanely jealous....)

The rules are only vaguely similar, with one fewer die roll in KoW for most combats - Roll To Hit, Roll To Overcome Defense, Roll For Nerve as opposed to Roll To Hit, Roll To Wound, Opponent Rolls Armor, Opponent Rolls Leadership.

Battles tend to be a good deal faster.

And I have seen a tournament with six players each playing two battles - with no rules arguments!

There aren't a lot of spells - but that is partly because they have consolidated rules. It does not matter whether the spell that damages a unit is a lightning bolt, a giant foot coming out of the sky, or a fireball - it is all handled with either Zap! or Breath Weapon.

I greatly prefer KoW over the current version of Warhammer, but favor the old 3rd edition Warhammer a trifle more.

Campaign and Siege rules are in the hardcover... and are the only parts that I think needed a bit more polish before publication. The basics are good... but there are some problems like most armies not having war machines that can destroy stone walls. Ironwatch fanzine has some campaign rules that I like a bit better.

Because of their slow movement the undead really need lots of characters - I like keeping a mounted necromancer with my Revenant cavalry and at least one for every two infantry units - mostly using Dark Surge and/or Heal.

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
 
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