Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 cincydooley wrote:
So.... I know a lot of you are waiting for confrontation. I am too. But if I have to be honest with you, based on some of the things I've been told, this KS, even through fulfillment, isn't likely to get in the way of that in terms of timeline.

Basically, what I'm saying, is that I don't think Confrontation Pheonix is very close.....

This would have been disappointing to hear about a year ago, but at this point I'm not holding my breath.
I think it makes sense for CMoN to have done WoK first, it would have flopped dramatically if WoK had followed a Confrontation re-launch.
My expectations for Phoenix could not be lower at this point.

Yeah. My understanding is not that CMoN is trying to favor WoK over Confrontation, but rather that there are some really significant problems and hurdles to correctly relaunching Confrontation as a full game, the least of which being the rules.

 Azazelx wrote:

Falhurk wrote:
It seems a lot of people who aren't backing have thrown in many negative opinions. While I do understand it's the internet and you can say whatever the hell you want, I was under the impression this thread was for discussing a common interest. That interest being Wrath of Kings.

Some of us are very much on the fence. Speaking for myself, if I had no interest, I wouldn't be bothering with this thread at all.

For people who like the aesthetics across the range, the $200 pledge is undoubtedly an amazing deal. That's not in question. For those of us (like myself) who like "bits and pieces" of the range but not all of even a single faction, it's less clear cut, particularly the way these things always add up...

That's a good point, I just went through all 17 of this thread and was kind of disappointed that every second comment was bashing on something. I realize that there may be a history here, but as CMON has had succesful Kickstarters (and I'm already in on RK), I'm willing to give this the benefit of the doubt. I just wish there was more discussion on what we were excited about. What we're interested in playing, and what we think of the rules.

Falhurk wrote:
I just wish there was more discussion on what we were excited about. What we're interested in playing, and what we think of the rules.

Sharks, flying babies, and masked fat chicks. 'Nuff said.

I glanced over the rules. They went over my head, but then again that's usually the case when I'm not actively trying to play/ learn something. I'm very interested in the HC rule book though. Hope it has some of the fluff they posted inside of it rather than just as a separate PDF.

Worst case for me if the rules aren't my cup of tea- I get a lot of cool looking figures, a nice book filled with pretty artwork, and lots of toys to play with in whatever rule system works best for me.

I'm more than willing to give their rules a shot. Hopefully they aren't too much of a slog.

The initial gameplay video wasn't incredibly exciting. The feel, rather than the actual rules, reminded me of Confrontation. There are forced movement mechanics that aren't spell based, which is something I think Confrontation was lacking compared to Warmachine, which removed a lot of scenario options.

I haven't played anything but X-Wing for over a year now so rules are not at the top of my list anyway.

A distinct lack of stretch goals beyond 600k, and the pledge rate is not increasing at nowhere near the rate of some KS projects over the final days. Is this lack of added incentives indicative of CMON wanting to not spread themselves too thin so that they can deliver this project pretty close to schedule? Perhaps a bit of learning from previous projects. It is almost like they have said we want to make $500 to $600k and set themselves up accordingly.

Well a possible subsequent stretch is moral counters based on this CMON coment

Sorry to hit and run, we're trying to figure out if we can give away morale counters from sequential D20s - it'd be something everyone would find useful.

but if they are trying to get custom ones done they may run into cost issues, as I know Mierce had to give up on faction specific d10's due to cost, and I'm pretty sure another game had similar issues (d6's are cheap to do everything else not so much)

In terms of new characters the 600K goal is new stuff well in advance of what CMON expected to get to

"We're kind of into new release territory here, but what the heck.... time for a real stretch..."

and

"If we hit our next stretch goal, these models will be pushed to Kickstarter backers ahead of their scheduled retail release..."

so that could well be it for the new stuff mini wise

(I'd quite like a hardcopy of the novel, or just as good a much longer novel)

 cincydooley wrote:
Yeah. My understanding is not that CMoN is trying to favor WoK over Confrontation, but rather that there are some really significant problems and hurdles to correctly relaunching Confrontation as a full game, the least of which being the rules.

The way I hear it, the rules are far from the least of the problems with a Confrontation relaunch!

 Alpharius wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Yeah. My understanding is not that CMoN is trying to favor WoK over Confrontation, but rather that there are some really significant problems and hurdles to correctly relaunching Confrontation as a full game, the least of which being the rules.

The way I hear it, the rules are far from the least of the problems with a Confrontation relaunch!

Care to elaborate? Actually curious as to what problems they might be having? Have a bunch of the old figs and was wanting to see how the reboot was coming.

Having to bite my tongue and to recommit to this. Like the figs, but don't see getting a group to play this and don't really know what to use figs for outside the game. Also, plan on going to Gencon next year, so should be able to pick up the "exclusives", albeit at full price there.

See this squeaking past $600K, but not much more.

Don't get me wrong. The rules are still a huge issue. But there are lots of other legal issues regarding moulds and models that are bigger problems

There are several issues facing a confrontation relaunch

1. The Phoenix rules re-write were not taken well at all by many of the old players

(well the ones active on the net anyway),

and those players seem to divide into at least two polarised camps over what the 'best bits' of the old system were

2. It's not clear how much in the way of the old models CMON eventually got hold of... reportedly a bunch of the masters were missing and many of the moulds were in poor condition

not a deal breaker but it will certainly cost them a lot more than they anticipated to get stuff back into production

(My guess is now they will jump straight to WoK mix plastic minis but I'm pretty sure that wasn't the intial idea)

3. Recasters.. A bunch of confrontation is being recast, not ideal if you plan to relaunch these minis/units again

4. Sculptors, some have gone elsewhere, others are doing decently as free-lance workers and lot of the feel was down to the sculptors

(I wonder if they are trialling some new ones on WoK to see if they can do the feel)

Well given prior to CMoN's relaunch, I had heard a lot of the Confrontation molds and masters had been thrown in the dumpster. Guess some of them may have still ended up there.

Sounds like the game may not see the light of day soon then. If the old players are so against the rule set, they serve as a base for a very vocal opposition should it move forward without their acceptance. Worse, it sounds like there isn't a clear consensus on what they want.

An CMoN employee had said Confrontation was going to come before WoK. With all the problems you guys list, that probably is why WoK was pushed ahead.

Thanks.

Guys, this isn't a Comfrontation thread. We need to focus on important WoK issues, like bitterly complaining about the Buy Three of the Same Monster Get One Free update (or BTSMGOF as its known in the business).

 plastictrees wrote:
Guys, this isn't a Comfrontation thread. We need to focus on important WoK issues, like bitterly complaining about the Buy Three of the Same Monster Get One Free update (or BTSMGOF as its known in the business).

This guy knows things about stuff.

I agree about the buy 3 thing.. I'm practically begging for them to give me a reason to throw more money at them and they release this.. The least useful possible option..

Although, for a value vs retail thing it's not so bad. $60 bucks gives you $140 MSRP worth of models.

Maybe the 700k stretch goal will give us the option to buy 3 of any creature and get a 4th free.

Eh.

It's been a fun ride, we're getting a lot for our pledges, but I hate how most of CMON's campaigns just STOP. It's like they hit the wall and say "Congratulations!" and leave it at that.

I guess not every campaign can be an explosion of energy and excitement. I like watching that final countdown on the timer as we're all hoping we get some final goal.

I don't think I'll be doing that this time.

I would love to find myself proven wrong though, and see that CMON has some final trick up their sleeves. It sounded like they did too, judging from a few comments they put up.

Honestly, I'm quite happy with what I've pledged for. Although I might wanna toss in for the Zombicide mini's. Currently, out of my group I'm pledged for:

Nasier Base Set
Twilight Knight
Elsis Tagil & Alayna Heska
Great Horn
The Blind Hakar
Fel Hammer Box

Total: $128

 plastictrees wrote:
Guys, this isn't a Comfrontation thread. We need to focus on important WoK issues, like bitterly complaining about the Buy Three of the Same Monster Get One Free update (or BTSMGOF as its known in the business).

that was indeed one of the least impressive stretch goals ever seen in a CMON KS, although I'm sure it pleased a few people (where the pledge was made up of several folk all after the same faction)

but unless they come up with free stuff it doen't really matter to me what they put up as I can't spend any more on this (and I'm having to think very hard about whether I give up on the free ancient king and drop back down to $180 instead of $200, nice bases are good, but the teknes ones are not terrible inspiring)

I think it's clear now that CMoN doesn't want this to go much beyond $600k there's been no interaction with the KS comments over the weekend which is unusual given it's the last 24 hours. I expect this to clear $600k in the next hour or so they'll drag their heels on an update so they can call it a day, they might fit 1 more $100k stretch in if they have something to add which they seem to be running out of . Funding ending up somewhere in the $650 to $700k range may be edging just above if people jump in at last minute. In for $145 which is the lowest I've pledged on CMoN KS (other than GoC) but I really only want 2 faction starters, Allison and The Zc stuff.


EDITED or maybe they do want to push this on after all this actually a good stretch at just $50k to but it still shows they don't have much left to add.

Project Update #53: 15 hours to go! Can we squeeze in one more stretch goal?

We've got 15 hours to go on the clock...



The Characters from this update: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/wrath-of-kings/posts/586337

will have plastic versions included free in each corresponding Faction Starter. These models will be available at retail but will be released to you earlier! The resin preview models will still be available for separate purchase if/after we hit this stretch goal!

I do like the new stretch... free is better (and I can't spend any more)

but it certainly looks like this is all they have done

I'm certainly surprised there are no fancy dice (especially as there's a dice bag) as that would seem to be an easy sell, even if only the D6 had a faction symbol on

WoK uses d10s which are apparently very expensive to get custom made so I doubt they'll add them.

Well CMON have called it at 650K

Thank you all for showing so much love for Wrath of Kings! Here's a look at the upgraded Faction Starters for Kickstarter with the unlocked characters. With just a few hours left on the clock, we won't be adding more stretch goals (boo...), but we will be working hard to have everything ready to be shipped in May 2014 (yay!)

Also, we'd like to send a thank you to Teskal and Grandfather Punk, two of our backers who maintained this nifty pledge calculator and big graphic of everything respectively!

Pledge calculator

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B97GlvSN5zL3bGlzVFF3Y0ZYemc/edit?usp=sharing Choose on the left top 'File'->Download and open it with Excel or Open Office or Libre Office

Godfathers Punk's Pledge Image: http://users.telenet.be/gpunk/KS/WoK2.jpg

And of course, don't forget our updated guide to Ancient King and optional menus available here: http://www.wrathofkings.com/wok-menu/guide.html



the other images don't seem to want to copy so if you want to see them go here

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/wrath-of-kings/posts/599916

now we wait and see if the 'cautious' approach they've showed with this one has any impact on KS delays, or not

I would prefer since they did their slow and cautious approach that we actually get things sooner rather than later

However it's a Kickstarter so it'll probably be late anyways.

Still I'm quite happy with what I'll be getting. If Bones and Mars Attacks don't suck me dry I might just go ahead and pledge for an Ancient King in the pledge manager.

A single starter looks to be enough for two people to split and use against each other. I might divvy up the fish to my kids and let them face the full wrath of my nekkid ladies.

Unsurprising, disappointing and yet probably the smart move - kudos to CMON?

Soooo are Cmon going to be doing the usual CMPK for this? if so does it matter what level or how much you pledge to be invited, say $1 to $10.

Still kinda interested in getting the twilight knight and some other choice mini's, just not right this second, kinda want to think if over a bit longer.

Yep CKPM in place later. Pledge $1 and select A la Carte if you want a minimum pledge with an invite.

EDIT actually Rolt as your UK I think you have to commit to $16 you have to pay the shipping as well AFAIK KS won't allow non US backers to avoid the shipping charge. Whatever you do don't pledge $1 and no reward level as they can't send you a CKPM invite at no reward.


I think this ended pretty much where CMoN wanted it to - more than enough funds to produce everything - all shipped in 1 wave and plenty of room for later expansions as they haven't tried to cram more into this for a bit more funding. I think they'll deliver this one on time or dare I say may be even a little early!

Thank you DaveC.

Thats pretty much how I figured it too, this KS has funded nicely as is, no need to worry about a full pledge right now, I'll shove in
a $1 for and see if I still want the stuff later, if not its no big loss.

Sorry Rolt just edited my post I'm not sure you can pledge just $1 if your international shipping you might have to pay the $15 shipping charge as well whatever you do don't select no reward.

Just noticed this now has more backers than Relic Knights but will probably end about $200k lower in funding.

Yep, Thanks again DaveC, your a star.

Just changed it to A-La- Carte at $16 for both the $1 invite and upfront shipping, still not a huge loss if I decide I don't want the stuff later, so its all cool.

If I want to use these models for other systems, is it even worth picking up a single faction starter or is this just my miniature lust eeking up?

I'm happy with the way this ended. The value is there definitely for the Ancient Kings pledge level. And the models look good for the most part and my cursory view of the gameplay means I might get a game or two in once it arrives. The fact you can grab everything for all factions for $470 is crazy and with an average cost of $1.48 you can't really go wrong.

I'm in for Ancient King and I'm thinking I might pick up the entire range plus bases for at least two of the ranges thru the pledge manager.