Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Both... Why restrict to 3 slots, Spearhead is for AdMech!

Oldmike wrote:
So to you all what's better dune crawlers or robots I have one of each and trying to deside what for slot number 3

Yea you want to do spear head usually.

Spear Head and Outrider for the chickenwalkers since they are good and cheap playing at 2k points. Then third detachment can be a knight or go more admech and buy single HQ for Greyfax for physic phase protection.

Personally I have 6 robots and 4 spider tanks

str00dles1 wrote:


Personally I have 6 robots and 4 spider tanks

Filthy.

I really do need to grab some Kastellans, but I really, really dislike the models. I know there was a 3D printed conversion kit to make their heads into Castellax-like pods, do any of you know where to find that?

 Verviedi wrote:
I really do need to grab some Kastellans, but I really, really dislike the models. I know there was a 3D printed conversion kit to make their heads into Castellax-like pods, do any of you know where to find that?

Ask and ye shall receive!

Excellent. Thank you! Now I just need to do heavy conversion work, and buy robots when I can afford them!

So is everyone disliking the plasma culverin's on kataphrons? I have had GREAT results with it versus vehicles in particular. I have a dominus nearby (I don't have Cawl yet...) for reroll 1's and overcharge every turn. I have killed a full health chimera in a turn with 3 kataphrons. The random shot number is a pain, for sure, but I struggle to stick wounds on ANYTHING with my grav cannons. Maybe it's because more vehicles are coming out and the s5 grav just won't wound as much? I am much more pro-plasma this edition, that s8 from overcharging is great. I also stuck like 11 wounds on a lord of skulls in 1 round of shooting between 5 kataphrons my last game out. I did finally end up losing some kataphrons to the plasma overheat, but that's because my dominus got punked by a knight, so I didn't have rerolls. If you have the reroll 1's I think you can make plasma work for sure.

I haven't had much luck with the transonic arquebus, though I love the idea and want to make it work. I wish I had more plasma calivers for my vanguard I have built (I started with 2 start collecting boxes so I only got 2 of each special). I'll have to get either another start collecting box (another dunecrawler too ) or just get some more vanguard/ranger models in their own kit so I can keep up the msu + loads of special weapons. Are cc weapons on the sergeants completely not worth it? I tried a power sword and couldn't stick wounds with s3 but the arc maul making you s5 helped a bunch!

Thanks for listening.

 Castellan Alaric wrote:
So is everyone disliking the plasma culverin's on kataphrons? I have had GREAT results with it versus vehicles in particular. I have a dominus nearby (I don't have Cawl yet...) for reroll 1's and overcharge every turn. I have killed a full health chimera in a turn with 3 kataphrons. The random shot number is a pain, for sure, but I struggle to stick wounds on ANYTHING with my grav cannons. Maybe it's because more vehicles are coming out and the s5 grav just won't wound as much? I am much more pro-plasma this edition, that s8 from overcharging is great. I also stuck like 11 wounds on a lord of skulls in 1 round of shooting between 5 kataphrons my last game out. I did finally end up losing some kataphrons to the plasma overheat, but that's because my dominus got punked by a knight, so I didn't have rerolls. If you have the reroll 1's I think you can make plasma work for sure.

I haven't had much luck with the transonic arquebus, though I love the idea and want to make it work. I wish I had more plasma calivers for my vanguard I have built (I started with 2 start collecting boxes so I only got 2 of each special). I'll have to get either another start collecting box (another dunecrawler too ) or just get some more vanguard/ranger models in their own kit so I can keep up the msu + loads of special weapons. Are cc weapons on the sergeants completely not worth it? I tried a power sword and couldn't stick wounds with s3 but the arc maul making you s5 helped a bunch!

Thanks for listening.

Over all, the general consensus is the Kataphons are poop. I own 6, so I wish they were good but I personally don't like them. They don't fit in a role really. Robots are for killing all but the most heavy armored and wounded models, then the Icarus/Laser Spider Tank can take on that target easily. They cost way way to much to be useable. I can spend 200 on 4 groups of troops to bubble wrap my forces. I can spend 220 on 3 kataphons that don't do as well as robots or the spider tanks.

Glad they work, but I wont use them unless they get a lot cheaper.

Just something to point out dont count out servitors. They are actually an amazing addition. Its 8 points for 4 of them and we can use them as infiltrate block. just making a big oval of no infiltrators. or just stick them on an objective and not feel bad not. moving a rangers unit. it gives you another unit against your go first count but just something to consider

 thatssoeffingcool wrote:
Just something to point out dont count out servitors. They are actually an amazing addition. Its 8 points for 4 of them and we can use them as infiltrate block. just making a big oval of no infiltrators. or just stick them on an objective and not feel bad not. moving a rangers unit. it gives you another unit against your go first count but just something to consider

servitors would be useful if they could have no wargear. but they must take expensive servo-arms. I'd rather have Vanguard.

 thatssoeffingcool wrote:
Just something to point out dont count out servitors. They are actually an amazing addition. Its 8 points for 4 of them and we can use them as infiltrate block. just making a big oval of no infiltrators. or just stick them on an objective and not feel bad not. moving a rangers unit. it gives you another unit against your go first count but just something to consider

2 points for the Servitor... 12 points for the weapon... You have yourself a unit of 4 Servitors with only Servo-arms for 56 points, and you have to admit they're pretty useless without any heavy weapons attached.

Plus I personally think their models are the ugliest ever and I'll never have that in my army ever.

Concerning Fulgurites I'll have to try them someday, they look nice enough after reading some of your batreps. When we'll get a transport I'll sure look at them again, If i switch their heads they'll be less ugly


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Verviedi wrote:
I really do need to grab some Kastellans, but I really, really dislike the models. I know there was a 3D printed conversion kit to make their heads into Castellax-like pods, do any of you know where to find that?

Their heads are the cutest, how dare you ?

Yeah, the cost of the servo-arm is pretty unfortunate, makes me wish you could put HBs on all four servitors instead of just two of them to actually make them useful. It's also kind of odd, since I don't think there is any unit that actually has a servo arm as an upgrade option. It's always a default item that you can sometimes replace. I guess they specifically wanted a HB servitor to be cheaper than a servo-arm servitor, so they made the servo arm more expensive than the HB.

There is nothing as satisfying as a Kastellan reflecting a Melta or Lascannon shot

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
There is nothing as satisfying as a Kastellan reflecting a Melta or Lascannon shot

In 7th, people that shot at my Kastelan Robots with lascannons ALWAYS had it returned to them, it was like black magic. Don't remember a single lascannon wounding it.

str00dles1 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

 gally912 wrote:
The new faq seems to contradict you st00dles1.

No, because you allocate the wounds, then you make all the saves. This all happens at once.

How what the FAQ states is how the game normally flows. You do each shooting attack separate. And example is a Knight Titan shooting its battle cannon and gatling cannon at a single squad. Shooter picks and resolved 1 weapon fully, then the next. so between removing dead models outside of cover for the one attack, the squad can now gain cover for the next of the attacks at it.

Oh reaaaaaally?
I never say things without proof.
https://twitter.com/rvd1ofakind/status/871305345636999168

Twitter is not any proof. Just how people's questions on Facebook and the answers they give mean nothing in any sort of tourney.

Just a heads up; first day FAQ explicitly says you can do this. It's on the GW page right next to the PDF of the Core rules. You can indeed do it. Both the Devs have said so and its official errata/FAQ.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Verviedi wrote:
I really do need to grab some Kastellans, but I really, really dislike the models. I know there was a 3D printed conversion kit to make their heads into Castellax-like pods, do any of you know where to find that?

!!!

I feel like I am the only one who loves the robots look. Admittedly I am a huge old sci-fi buff/nerd and the fact they look like 1950s robots made me buy 2 boxes of them when they first launched.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

str00dles1 wrote:

 Castellan Alaric wrote:
So is everyone disliking the plasma culverin's on kataphrons? I have had GREAT results with it versus vehicles in particular. I have a dominus nearby (I don't have Cawl yet...) for reroll 1's and overcharge every turn. I have killed a full health chimera in a turn with 3 kataphrons. The random shot number is a pain, for sure, but I struggle to stick wounds on ANYTHING with my grav cannons. Maybe it's because more vehicles are coming out and the s5 grav just won't wound as much? I am much more pro-plasma this edition, that s8 from overcharging is great. I also stuck like 11 wounds on a lord of skulls in 1 round of shooting between 5 kataphrons my last game out. I did finally end up losing some kataphrons to the plasma overheat, but that's because my dominus got punked by a knight, so I didn't have rerolls. If you have the reroll 1's I think you can make plasma work for sure.

I haven't had much luck with the transonic arquebus, though I love the idea and want to make it work. I wish I had more plasma calivers for my vanguard I have built (I started with 2 start collecting boxes so I only got 2 of each special). I'll have to get either another start collecting box (another dunecrawler too ) or just get some more vanguard/ranger models in their own kit so I can keep up the msu + loads of special weapons. Are cc weapons on the sergeants completely not worth it? I tried a power sword and couldn't stick wounds with s3 but the arc maul making you s5 helped a bunch!

Thanks for listening.

Over all, the general consensus is the Kataphons are poop. I own 6, so I wish they were good but I personally don't like them. They don't fit in a role really. Robots are for killing all but the most heavy armored and wounded models, then the Icarus/Laser Spider Tank can take on that target easily. They cost way way to much to be useable. I can spend 200 on 4 groups of troops to bubble wrap my forces. I can spend 220 on 3 kataphons that don't do as well as robots or the spider tanks.

Glad they work, but I wont use them unless they get a lot cheaper.

I don't think they are poop but your criticism is not unfounded. Breaches/destroyers (from my very limited experience in 8th [only 6 games with Admech thus far]) are very powerful when combined with Cawl. Rerolls effectively give you extreme damage output and accuracy. However at a huge point investment. 250 for cawl and 440 for two squads of destroyers. For an obscene cost of almost half your army list you get 3 units which are super easy to kill but can commit a lot of firepower. You might just be better off taking an Imperial knight and using the left over change to buy another troop choice fully kitted out. I still haven't made up my mind on how they play cause I need more play testing with them, but I fully agree that their current price is simply too expensive. And unless you take Cawl to babysit them, I would say don't even bother taking them.

my fault it looked like how it read was servitor armed with servo arm for 2 points. but i just have the word document posted earlier

str00dles1 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

 gally912 wrote:
The new faq seems to contradict you st00dles1.

No, because you allocate the wounds, then you make all the saves. This all happens at once.

How what the FAQ states is how the game normally flows. You do each shooting attack separate. And example is a Knight Titan shooting its battle cannon and gatling cannon at a single squad. Shooter picks and resolved 1 weapon fully, then the next. so between removing dead models outside of cover for the one attack, the squad can now gain cover for the next of the attacks at it.

Oh reaaaaaally?
I never say things without proof.
https://twitter.com/rvd1ofakind/status/871305345636999168

Twitter is not any proof. Just how people's questions on Facebook and the answers they give mean nothing in any sort of tourney.

New FAQ contradicts this:
https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Warhammer_40000_Designers_Commentary-ENG.pdf

"Q: When determining whether a model benefits from cover, does the model’s entire unit need to be fully on or within terrain, or just the model making a particular saving throw?
A: All of the models in a unit need to be at least partially on or within terrain if any of the models are to receive the +1 bonus to their saving throw.

Note, however, that it is possible for a unit to gain the benefit of cover as it suffers casualties during the Shooting phase by removing those models that are not on, or within terrain. As soon as the last model that was not on or within terrain is slain, the rest of the unit immediately starts to receive the benefit of cover."

Keep in mind that you don't speed roll saves, even though convention allows for it to save time. This is because models in a unit do not necessarily possess the same save. I believe the tweet reaffirms this.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
I really do need to grab some Kastellans, but I really, really dislike the models. I know there was a 3D printed conversion kit to make their heads into Castellax-like pods, do any of you know where to find that?

Ask and ye shall receive!

The Wargame Exclusive alternate heads are a great choice to make the Kastellans less Baymaxy, too.

Some people convert a regular Skitarii or Servitor head for use in the Kastelan. It's mildly terrifying to see a tiny head inside such a massive body.

 thatssoeffingcool wrote:
my fault it looked like how it read was servitor armed with servo arm for 2 points. but i just have the word document posted earlier

I'm not sure how you're reading that this way
It's 2 per model + 12 per servo-arm which are pre-equiped. So 2*4+2*12=56


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Suzuteo wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

 gally912 wrote:
The new faq seems to contradict you st00dles1.

No, because you allocate the wounds, then you make all the saves. This all happens at once.

How what the FAQ states is how the game normally flows. You do each shooting attack separate. And example is a Knight Titan shooting its battle cannon and gatling cannon at a single squad. Shooter picks and resolved 1 weapon fully, then the next. so between removing dead models outside of cover for the one attack, the squad can now gain cover for the next of the attacks at it.

Oh reaaaaaally?
I never say things without proof.
https://twitter.com/rvd1ofakind/status/871305345636999168

Twitter is not any proof. Just how people's questions on Facebook and the answers they give mean nothing in any sort of tourney.

New FAQ contradicts this:
https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Warhammer_40000_Designers_Commentary-ENG.pdf

"Q: When determining whether a model benefits from cover, does the model’s entire unit need to be fully on or within terrain, or just the model making a particular saving throw?
A: All of the models in a unit need to be at least partially on or within terrain if any of the models are to receive the +1 bonus to their saving throw.

Note, however, that it is possible for a unit to gain the benefit of cover as it suffers casualties during the Shooting phase by removing those models that are not on, or within terrain. As soon as the last model that was not on or within terrain is slain, the rest of the unit immediately starts to receive the benefit of cover."

Keep in mind that you don't speed roll saves, even though convention allows for it to save time. This is because models in a unit do not necessarily possess the same save. I believe the tweet reaffirms this.

He'll likely skip over this response just like all the twitter responses and complain it's not official because there are no "gamesworkshop stamps".
For him to take it as official it'd have to be signed in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public enquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters.

I just had a thought, and stop me if I'm terribly wrong. The Secutarii rules haven't been updated for 8th and are also not in any of the FW indexes as far as I can tell. So, this means 1 of 2 things:

1. The boring answer is there'll be a pdf of the rules up on the site soon enough.
2. The exciting answer is FoC is much closer than I thought.

Jackal444 wrote:
I just had a thought, and stop me if I'm terribly wrong. The Secutarii rules haven't been updated for 8th and are also not in any of the FW indexes as far as I can tell. So, this means 1 of 2 things:

1. The boring answer is there'll be a pdf of the rules up on the site soon enough.
2. The exciting answer is FoC is much closer than I thought.

They promised everything would be useable on launch. Now it's by end of June.

Don't hold your breath?

(That being said, I am super excited for Secutarii. We NEED cheaper Elites.)

Suzuteo wrote:

Jackal444 wrote:
I just had a thought, and stop me if I'm terribly wrong. The Secutarii rules haven't been updated for 8th and are also not in any of the FW indexes as far as I can tell. So, this means 1 of 2 things:

1. The boring answer is there'll be a pdf of the rules up on the site soon enough.
2. The exciting answer is FoC is much closer than I thought.

They promised everything would be useable on launch. Now it's by end of June.

Don't hold your breath?

(That being said, I am super excited for Secutarii. We NEED cheaper Elites.)

Do we?
Our elites are now 52 to 130 pts...
Are securati gonna be 20 pts per unit?

Quick questions since someone asked me why I shoot all my Icarus Guns into one target. Since it is a single Weapon system I assumed it has to target one enemy unit with all its weapons. So, am I wrong with that assumption?

Iago40k wrote:
Quick questions since someone asked me why I shoot all my Icarus Guns into one target. Since it is a single Weapon system I assumed it has to target one enemy unit with all its weapons. So, am I wrong with that assumption?

It's not really clear, in the Shooting rules it's said "if a model has several weapons, it can shoot all of them a the same target, or it can shoot each at a specific unit". Now the Icarus Array says "When attacking with this weapon, you can fire all three profiles below".

To me it's a single weapon, but with different profiles like the Eradication Ray does for exemple, so I'd say until it's FAQed we should target one unit with the three profiles.

 Aaranis wrote:

Iago40k wrote:
Quick questions since someone asked me why I shoot all my Icarus Guns into one target. Since it is a single Weapon system I assumed it has to target one enemy unit with all its weapons. So, am I wrong with that assumption?

It's not really clear, in the Shooting rules it's said "if a model has several weapons, it can shoot all of them a the same target, or it can shoot each at a specific unit". Now the Icarus Array says "When attacking with this weapon, you can fire all three profiles below".

To me it's a single weapon, but with different profiles like the Eradication Ray does for exemple, so I'd say until it's FAQed we should target one unit with the three profiles.

'

That's how ive been playing it so far, our group agrees its still a single weapon with different shots so must be same unit targeted.

Agree, same way we are playing it, one weapon, tons of shots...

Arachnofiend wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
I really do need to grab some Kastellans, but I really, really dislike the models. I know there was a 3D printed conversion kit to make their heads into Castellax-like pods, do any of you know where to find that?

Ask and ye shall receive!

The Wargame Exclusive alternate heads are a great choice to make the Kastellans less Baymaxy, too.

Those are what I have on my Robots.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
There is nothing as satisfying as a Kastellan reflecting a Melta or Lascannon shot

Yeah, in my one game of 8th against Dark Eldar the guy shot me with 3 dark lances, putting 0 wounds on my robots and 4 on his Raider/Ravager/Whatever it was.

He never shot at them again!

Suzuteo wrote:

Jackal444 wrote:
I just had a thought, and stop me if I'm terribly wrong. The Secutarii rules haven't been updated for 8th and are also not in any of the FW indexes as far as I can tell. So, this means 1 of 2 things:

1. The boring answer is there'll be a pdf of the rules up on the site soon enough.
2. The exciting answer is FoC is much closer than I thought.

They promised everything would be useable on launch. Now it's by end of June.

Don't hold your breath?

(That being said, I am super excited for Secutarii. We NEED cheaper Elites.)

Well 90% of models have rules? The only one that dont have 40k rules (now or by the end of this week) are the Mechanicum ones. So hopefully Cyraxis is soon...