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what good would a 7+ armor save do?

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
what good would a 7+ armor save do?

hardly anything for a 30 man blob. cant really fit all 30 into terrain.

He was just saying that practically a 6+/6+++ might as well be a 5+++ to save on dice rolling.

In general, our entire codex needs to be tougher. Orks are pathetically easy to kill when every bit of our fluff paints us as hulking, towering monsters and clanking, undying machines that keep going forward even when they should have fallen to pieces long ago.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
He was just saying that practically a 6+/6+++ might as well be a 5+++ to save on dice rolling.

In general, our entire codex needs to be tougher. Orks are pathetically easy to kill when every bit of our fluff paints us as hulking, towering monsters and clanking, undying machines that keep going forward even when they should have fallen to pieces long ago.

It's a mixed issue of the only things being really cheap enough to spam being boyz, with everything else being too expensive for how fragile they are. Throw in general lack of invulnerable saves in CC outside Ghazzy and a few other fringe units and it means we are far more of a glass cannon than we should be.

I think Boyz are fine as is, its really the support units that have to step up their game. Make Painboyz give 5+ FNP again, potentially make KFF's 4+ invulns with Big Meks also giving some aura buff to shooting (or at least bring back the Mega KFF), Cybork bodies give invulns in CC again and are accessible to all our higher tier units. There just seems to be a distinct lack of real synergy besides having Weirdboyz going super charged with boyz nearby and jumping them/smiting.

They could give us a unit of ard boys, basically boys with 2 wounds and 4+ armor, for 10-12 points each, that way you can go full horde with 6pt Boys or more elite with ard boys. Give 3 wounds to nobs and 4 to meganobs.
6+++ for everyone would also be nice.
Another thing that would be nice too is giving WS2 to nobs and WS1 to warboss

If they went with the 6+++ for everyone, 5+++ near a Painboy they could make a strat that improved it by 1 for a turn also

 Grotsnik1 wrote:
They could give us a unit of ard boys, basically boys with 2 wounds and 4+ armor, for 10-12 points each, that way you can go full horde with 6pt Boys or more elite with ard boys. Give 3 wounds to nobs and 4 to meganobs.
6+++ for everyone would also be nice.
Another thing that would be nice too is giving WS2 to nobs and WS1 to warboss

If they went with the 6+++ for everyone, 5+++ near a Painboy they could make a strat that improved it by 1 for a turn also

Although 2W ard boyz would be interesting, I feel like they'd still be better off as a CP upgrade stratagem. I would say WS2 and WS1 warboss is a bit much though, I understand this helps mitigate the -1 to hit from Power Klaws, but with WAAAGH! Banners as an option (which would be recosted accordingly) that would seem unnecessary. Also, PK's main issue is the relative lack of consistent damage output. Making them do a flat 3 damage or D6 damage would make it so guys like Meganobz can be a lot better in tackling big scary targets like Knights.

SemperMortis wrote:

Andykp wrote:
There are more to blood axes than kommandos. Especially if I are happy to use kromlechs awesome range.

Yes there is, but Kommandos are the first unit you think of when you say the word Blood Axe, and 3 max sized units of Kommandos right now tops out at 405pts and as it stands I would say that those Kommandos are about 2ppm over priced for what they do. If GW agrees and brings down the price to where it needs to be you are looking at 315pts for the Blood Axe pinnacle unit. Or another way to put it would be less then 16% of your blood axe army being Kommandos in a 2,000pt army.

I am still in mourning for my 90 Kommando Army :(

I’d prefer it if Kommandos stayed the same points or increased, but made them more characterful and interesting (personally, deepstriking boyz is a touch bland). Maybe make them more like Genestealer cult with their deepstriking shenanigans, with Snikrot giving them a buff/reroll to how they deploy.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Grotsnik1 wrote:
They could give us a unit of ard boys, basically boys with 2 wounds and 4+ armor, for 10-12 points each, that way you can go full horde with 6pt Boys or more elite with ard boys. Give 3 wounds to nobs and 4 to meganobs.
6+++ for everyone would also be nice.
Another thing that would be nice too is giving WS2 to nobs and WS1 to warboss

If they went with the 6+++ for everyone, 5+++ near a Painboy they could make a strat that improved it by 1 for a turn also

Although 2W ard boyz would be interesting, I feel like they'd still be better off as a CP upgrade stratagem. I would say WS2 and WS1 warboss is a bit much though, I understand this helps mitigate the -1 to hit from Power Klaws, but with WAAAGH! Banners as an option (which would be recosted accordingly) that would seem unnecessary. Also, PK's main issue is the relative lack of consistent damage output. Making them do a flat 3 damage or D6 damage would make it so guys like Meganobz can be a lot better in tackling big scary targets like Knights.

A thousand times yes for the PK thing. These are the bit hitters- they should be hitting just as hard as a lascannon in CC. Hell, take away the penalty to hit while we're at it- there's no sensible reason why CC weapons have a penalty to hit while ranged do not.

Everything dies in this edition, 6 pt models die more than 13 pt models.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Grotsnik1 wrote:
They could give us a unit of ard boys, basically boys with 2 wounds and 4+ armor, for 10-12 points each, that way you can go full horde with 6pt Boys or more elite with ard boys. Give 3 wounds to nobs and 4 to meganobs.
6+++ for everyone would also be nice.
Another thing that would be nice too is giving WS2 to nobs and WS1 to warboss

If they went with the 6+++ for everyone, 5+++ near a Painboy they could make a strat that improved it by 1 for a turn also

Although 2W ard boyz would be interesting, I feel like they'd still be better off as a CP upgrade stratagem. I would say WS2 and WS1 warboss is a bit much though, I understand this helps mitigate the -1 to hit from Power Klaws, but with WAAAGH! Banners as an option (which would be recosted accordingly) that would seem unnecessary. Also, PK's main issue is the relative lack of consistent damage output. Making them do a flat 3 damage or D6 damage would make it so guys like Meganobz can be a lot better in tackling big scary targets like Knights.

A thousand times yes for the PK thing. These are the bit hitters- they should be hitting just as hard as a lascannon in CC. Hell, take away the penalty to hit while we're at it- there's no sensible reason why CC weapons have a penalty to hit while ranged do not.

An Ork with a powerklaw does as much damage as a Space Marine with a lascannon, twice as much against a Knight. Lascannons are -1 to hit if you move and shoot. The reason they are -1 to hit is so there's a reason to take other weapons if you're just dealing with infantry, otherwise a powerklaw would be better in every circumstance if you ignore the pts cost.

I think the -1 hit penalty for Power klaws, saws, fists, etc shouldn't apply when attacking vehicles & large creatures.

 vict0988 wrote:
An Ork with a powerklaw does as much damage as a Space Marine with a lascannon, twice as much against a Knight. Lascannons are -1 to hit if you move and shoot. The reason they are -1 to hit is so there's a reason to take other weapons if you're just dealing with infantry, otherwise a powerklaw would be better in every circumstance if you ignore the pts cost.

While I agree on the -1 to hit thing (and I think Ork-en Man's solution to that awesome), let's not forget the range on lascannons. No amount of PKs will kill a vehicle turn 1.

 vict0988 wrote:

An Ork with a powerklaw does as much damage as a Space Marine with a lascannon, twice as much against a Knight. Lascannons are -1 to hit if you move and shoot. The reason they are -1 to hit is so there's a reason to take other weapons if you're just dealing with infantry, otherwise a powerklaw would be better in every circumstance if you ignore the pts cost.

Nowhere does a Ork Powerklaw do as much damage as a lascannon armed Marine. A 4 PK Nob Squad has 12 attacks hitting on 4s so 6 hits, against T7 vehicles with a 3+ save he will then do 3 unsaved wounds for an average of 6 damage, of course this is at least on Turn 2 more likely turn 3 because they have to walk up the board or attempt to "Da Jump" and manage a 9 inch charge. On the other hand 4 Lascannon Marines with 48' range aren't having to move really and are shooting from turn 1. They also have several buffs that they will most likely be near just because the SM codex is so filled with them that you almost have to be near one. Those 4 Marines fire 5 shots turn 1. 1 shot is hitting on 2s the other 4 on 3s for 3.4 hits lets assume they aren't near any buffing characters that let them reroll hits or wounds. 3.4 hits = 2.2 wounds which against that 3+ save = about 1.8 Wounds going through x 3.5 = 6.6 damage on average. And again, that is without the plethora of rerolls space Marines get from their characters.

So in a vacuum they are about equal, in reality its completely one sided for Space Marines. For the fact that those PKs have to walk up the board to get in range they need to do a LOT more damage or be so cheap as to matter when they are killed. As it stands its 30pts for a Nob with a PK and they just aren't worth it in my opinion. The only PK i take is on my painboy (because I have to) and on Ghaz.

I would prefer if orks got cheaper or tougher (e.g. toughness stat) or woundier (more wounds) rather than better saves. Taking the hit while wearing a t-shirt is very ork. Additionally, you can mostly make things equally tough just by giving them more wounds. E.g. 6 wounds with a 4++ is exactly as tough as 12 wound with no save, barring some RNG. The latter feels much orkier to me and saves on rolling dice (and therefore time) with an already slow-to-play army due to numbers.

what about upping Nobs to 3W? I feel like that would make them quite sturdy.

Frowny wrote:
I would prefer if orks got cheaper or tougher (e.g. toughness stat) or woundier (more wounds) rather than better saves. Taking the hit while wearing a t-shirt is very ork. Additionally, you can mostly make things equally tough just by giving them more wounds. E.g. 6 wounds with a 4++ is exactly as tough as 12 wound with no save, barring some RNG. The latter feels much orkier to me and saves on rolling dice (and therefore time) with an already slow-to-play army due to numbers.

what about upping Nobs to 3W? I feel like that would make them quite sturdy.

Ive been toying around with the idea of keeping boyz the same cost per wound and all the other stats but upping their wounds and reducing numbers. So a unit of 15 Boyz has the same number of wounds and attacks and other stats as 30 boyz but multi damage weapons only take 1 wound off instead of 2. This way you reduce the number of models on the table and speed the game up a bit. Ive tried it and the record keeping is a bit of an issue but otherwise it definitely sped the game up.

Granted, I still say that what really kills the speed of this edition is Imperial and Eldar factions having to reroll everything. My last game against a SM player, he had less then 1/3rd as many models as me and took as long as I did because he had to reroll every single dice roll he made.

Will Shoota boyz ever be worth building a theme around? I can find some use for them... Sometimes. Like shooting down Tau drones. What can we do to make Shoota boyz a viable choice?

Would Assault 3 (maybe for Bad Moons) be too OP, or balanced like a worse off Devil gaunt.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Will Shoota boyz ever be worth building a theme around? I can find some use for them... Sometimes. Like shooting down Tau drones. What can we do to make Shoota boyz a viable choice?

Would Assault 3 (maybe for Bad Moons) be too OP, or balanced like a worse off Devil gaunt.

The only way for shoota boyz to be viable is to give them some kind of gimmick. The sad fact is that even with 60 shots from a full squad, that's only averaging 3 dead MEQs. You give anything else in this game 60 shots, that's a whole lotta dead. Boyz, not so much.

Quick Maths:


It is far better just to give them the extra attack. Giving them more shots could work but that'd just be more dicerolling. They'd need some gimmick that's both fluffy and balanced to make shootas even remotely worth taking.

Been thinking about Relics today, and all we have to do is check the 7th edition codex for clues.

Finkin Kap can coming back as a fancy Helmet basically, and grant us some CP generation.

Gazbags Blitzbike is gone unless we get an Ork Boss on a bike kit.

Da Lucky Stikk might come back as a fancy Boss Pole, and grant some re-rolls, maybe some CP gimmick.

KillChoppa we know is alive and well.

Fixer Upperz is probably in, to be the dedicated Mek relic.

Dead Shiny Shoota is definitely in, for all those AOBR warbosses.

And I hate to admit it, but I never bought the Waaagh Ghaz supplement, so im probably missing a few give-ins, but I'm pretty sure were going to get a fancy Power Klaw relic as well, for both the Grukk and AOBR warboss model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now, after reevaluating the Index (and my own collection) I have a strong feeling we will get a new Waaagh Banna model.The current model is very out of place for a whole unit to be written for.

SemperMortis wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

An Ork with a powerklaw does as much damage as a Space Marine with a lascannon, twice as much against a Knight. Lascannons are -1 to hit if you move and shoot. The reason they are -1 to hit is so there's a reason to take other weapons if you're just dealing with infantry, otherwise a powerklaw would be better in every circumstance if you ignore the pts cost.

Nowhere does a Ork Powerklaw do as much damage as a lascannon armed Marine. A 4 PK Nob Squad has 12 attacks hitting on 4s so 6 hits, against T7 vehicles with a 3+ save he will then do 3 unsaved wounds for an average of 6 damage, of course this is at least on Turn 2 more likely turn 3 because they have to walk up the board or attempt to "Da Jump" and manage a 9 inch charge. On the other hand 4 Lascannon Marines with 48' range aren't having to move really and are shooting from turn 1. They also have several buffs that they will most likely be near just because the SM codex is so filled with them that you almost have to be near one. Those 4 Marines fire 5 shots turn 1. 1 shot is hitting on 2s the other 4 on 3s for 3.4 hits lets assume they aren't near any buffing characters that let them reroll hits or wounds. 3.4 hits = 2.2 wounds which against that 3+ save = about 1.8 Wounds going through x 3.5 = 6.6 damage on average. And again, that is without the plethora of rerolls space Marines get from their characters.

So in a vacuum they are about equal, in reality its completely one sided for Space Marines. For the fact that those PKs have to walk up the board to get in range they need to do a LOT more damage or be so cheap as to matter when they are killed. As it stands its 30pts for a Nob with a PK and they just aren't worth it in my opinion. The only PK i take is on my painboy (because I have to) and on Ghaz.

Powerklaws do more damage in close combat than a lascannon, unless we are talking Baneblades. You sound like someone suffering from not enough terrain, since that is part of what allows melee to compete. I'm not sure why you are complaining at me about balance, something I never addressed, I just correct you guys because you're being whiny.

Personally, I think HQs should do more damage to avoid pillow fights, other bad melee units should be cheaper as you suggested. I think GW made sure Boys were amazing this edition to avoid competitive Ork lists not being horde lists. The index Orks seem to be balanced by lack of access to competitive anti-tank, still Index Orks remain very effective despite a lack of a codex.

 vict0988 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

An Ork with a powerklaw does as much damage as a Space Marine with a lascannon, twice as much against a Knight. Lascannons are -1 to hit if you move and shoot. The reason they are -1 to hit is so there's a reason to take other weapons if you're just dealing with infantry, otherwise a powerklaw would be better in every circumstance if you ignore the pts cost.

Nowhere does a Ork Powerklaw do as much damage as a lascannon armed Marine. A 4 PK Nob Squad has 12 attacks hitting on 4s so 6 hits, against T7 vehicles with a 3+ save he will then do 3 unsaved wounds for an average of 6 damage, of course this is at least on Turn 2 more likely turn 3 because they have to walk up the board or attempt to "Da Jump" and manage a 9 inch charge. On the other hand 4 Lascannon Marines with 48' range aren't having to move really and are shooting from turn 1. They also have several buffs that they will most likely be near just because the SM codex is so filled with them that you almost have to be near one. Those 4 Marines fire 5 shots turn 1. 1 shot is hitting on 2s the other 4 on 3s for 3.4 hits lets assume they aren't near any buffing characters that let them reroll hits or wounds. 3.4 hits = 2.2 wounds which against that 3+ save = about 1.8 Wounds going through x 3.5 = 6.6 damage on average. And again, that is without the plethora of rerolls space Marines get from their characters.

So in a vacuum they are about equal, in reality its completely one sided for Space Marines. For the fact that those PKs have to walk up the board to get in range they need to do a LOT more damage or be so cheap as to matter when they are killed. As it stands its 30pts for a Nob with a PK and they just aren't worth it in my opinion. The only PK i take is on my painboy (because I have to) and on Ghaz.

Powerklaws do more damage in close combat than a lascannon, unless we are talking Baneblades. You sound like someone suffering from not enough terrain, since that is part of what allows melee to compete. I'm not sure why you are complaining at me about balance, something I never addressed, I just correct you guys because you're being whiny.

Personally, I think HQs should do more damage to avoid pillow fights, other bad melee units should be cheaper as you suggested. I think GW made sure Boys were amazing this edition to avoid competitive Ork lists not being horde lists. The index Orks seem to be balanced by lack of access to competitive anti-tank, still Index Orks remain very effective despite a lack of a codex.

Why does everyone who can't form an argument immediately go to "you need more terrain lol L2P!"

Also, try not to call people "whiny" its both impolite and useless to the conversation.

I think that even without the Rule of Three Weirdboyz wouldn't have been much of a problem. They only have four wounds and a 6+ save, and they tend to hurt themselves, so if they started becoming a problem I think we'd see people start taking more snipers and Weirdboyz wouldn't last very long. It's true that not every faction has the ability to snipe characters (which is itself a problem, IMO) but enough do that I don't think Weirdboy spam would be viable.

Not that I'm advocating that Weirdboyz get an exemption from the Rule of Three, I don't think there's a need for that either.


What would you guys think about changing choppas to have AP -1 instead of +1 Attack? I was doing the math against various units and while it is better against some and worse against others overall it seems to be mostly the same. The advantage would be less dice rolling required. I like rolling handfuls of dice, but once it gets much over 100 it starts feeling tedious to me. Plus it hearkens back to older editions when choppas were more than your average close combat weapon.

Runtherds having an expention to the Rule of 3 would be good.

vict0988 wrote:Powerklaws do more damage in close combat than a lascannon,

I wasn't aware that you can't shoot lascannons until turn 3 and lose half of them before you do. Could you point me to the FAQ that makes lascannons as weak as PKs?

You sound like someone suffering from not enough terrain, since that is part of what allows melee to compete.

You sound like someone suffering from not having a damn clue about orks, since orks don't get cover saves in 8th.
The only unit that has gotten cover saves in 8th for me are either lootaz or KMK, since you deploy them in cover and they stay there. Anything else is not getting cover.

I'm not sure why you are complaining at me about balance, something I never addressed, I just correct you guys because you're being whiny.

Semper tends to express his opinion in extremes, but he is right about this. PK usually only get to attack once or twice per game, and half or more of them die before doing so. Lascannons will start destroying armor turn 1 and you usually don't lose half of them before you get to use them.

Personally, I think HQs should do more damage to avoid pillow fights, other bad melee units should be cheaper as you suggested. I think GW made sure Boys were amazing this edition to avoid competitive Ork lists not being horde lists. The index Orks seem to be balanced by lack of access to competitive anti-tank, still Index Orks remain very effective despite a lack of a codex.

I don't think there was any intention behind it. Ork boyz have remained unchanged since 4th except for the edition changing around them.
The only bone that has been thrown our way was the price dump on the KMK in CA, and even that may have been an attempt to get morkanauts on the field. But gifted horse, so...

Blndmage wrote:Runtherds having an expention to the Rule of 3 would be good.

Why? You should easily be able to herd three units of gretchin per runherd and a warboss can keep them in line as well.

It's a straight-up fact that powerklaws are nowhere near as good as lascannons, and anyone who says otherwise clearly has never had to rely on them for anti-tank.

Stats on paper do not equal actual effectiveness in game. Powerklaws need a buff in damage output, and have the negative to hit penalty removed entirely. A powerklaw cannot hit on turn one unless multiple stratagems, psychic powers, or luck is involved, whereas a lascannon can be use immediately with the most basic of positioning all without a negative to hit, better damage, and more safety.

Powerklaws are nowhere near equal to lascannons.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
It's a straight-up fact that powerklaws are nowhere near as good as lascannons, and anyone who says otherwise clearly has never had to rely on them for anti-tank.

Stats on paper do not equal actual effectiveness in game. Powerklaws need a buff in damage output, and have the negative to hit penalty removed entirely. A powerklaw cannot hit on turn one unless multiple stratagems, psychic powers, or luck is involved, whereas a lascannon can be use immediately with the most basic of positioning all without a negative to hit, better damage, and more safety.

Powerklaws are nowhere near equal to lascannons.

I feel they just need to have the -1 toHit only apply to the more nimble infantry, the powerklaw should remain a bit clumsy, but should stand a far better chance of tearing into an engaged vehicle. A buff to the damage would also be nice imo.

 CaffeineIsGood wrote:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
It's a straight-up fact that powerklaws are nowhere near as good as lascannons, and anyone who says otherwise clearly has never had to rely on them for anti-tank.

Stats on paper do not equal actual effectiveness in game. Powerklaws need a buff in damage output, and have the negative to hit penalty removed entirely. A powerklaw cannot hit on turn one unless multiple stratagems, psychic powers, or luck is involved, whereas a lascannon can be use immediately with the most basic of positioning all without a negative to hit, better damage, and more safety.

Powerklaws are nowhere near equal to lascannons.

I feel they just need to have the -1 toHit only apply to the more nimble infantry, the powerklaw should remain a bit clumsy, but should stand a far better chance of tearing into an engaged vehicle. A buff to the damage would also be nice imo.

I agree, they should add different variations of damage. For instance PK could be 2D2 damage. This would raise the max and minimum damage while still keeping some random chance in there. This should apply to many armies not just orks.

mhalko1 wrote:

 CaffeineIsGood wrote:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
It's a straight-up fact that powerklaws are nowhere near as good as lascannons, and anyone who says otherwise clearly has never had to rely on them for anti-tank.

Stats on paper do not equal actual effectiveness in game. Powerklaws need a buff in damage output, and have the negative to hit penalty removed entirely. A powerklaw cannot hit on turn one unless multiple stratagems, psychic powers, or luck is involved, whereas a lascannon can be use immediately with the most basic of positioning all without a negative to hit, better damage, and more safety.

Powerklaws are nowhere near equal to lascannons.

I feel they just need to have the -1 toHit only apply to the more nimble infantry, the powerklaw should remain a bit clumsy, but should stand a far better chance of tearing into an engaged vehicle. A buff to the damage would also be nice imo.

I agree, they should add different variations of damage. For instance PK could be 2D2 damage. This would raise the max and minimum damage while still keeping some random chance in there. This should apply to many armies not just orks.

I honestly don't see why not just bring them to D6. If I can successfully march my model down the field, keep him alive, succeed the charge roll, and survive overwatch, I damn well deserve to do more damage than a lascannon that just has to sit still to do major damage turn one.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:

 CaffeineIsGood wrote:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
It's a straight-up fact that powerklaws are nowhere near as good as lascannons, and anyone who says otherwise clearly has never had to rely on them for anti-tank.

Stats on paper do not equal actual effectiveness in game. Powerklaws need a buff in damage output, and have the negative to hit penalty removed entirely. A powerklaw cannot hit on turn one unless multiple stratagems, psychic powers, or luck is involved, whereas a lascannon can be use immediately with the most basic of positioning all without a negative to hit, better damage, and more safety.

Powerklaws are nowhere near equal to lascannons.

I feel they just need to have the -1 toHit only apply to the more nimble infantry, the powerklaw should remain a bit clumsy, but should stand a far better chance of tearing into an engaged vehicle. A buff to the damage would also be nice imo.

I agree, they should add different variations of damage. For instance PK could be 2D2 damage. This would raise the max and minimum damage while still keeping some random chance in there. This should apply to many armies not just orks.

I honestly don't see why not just bring them to D6. If I can successfully march my model down the field, keep him alive, succeed the charge roll, and survive overwatch, I damn well deserve to do more damage than a lascannon that just has to sit still to do major damage turn one.

IDK, everyone compares it to the lascannon but it might not be the right comparison. 2nd. at d6 damage, it only has to make 2 hits to take down a carnifex. I don't think that'd be very healthy for the game. This is coming from an ork player who loved PK in 5th and never took them in 5th and 6th because challenges. I think you have to compare how it would affect multiple different factions and the result making a change can have.

mhalko1 wrote:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:

 CaffeineIsGood wrote:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
It's a straight-up fact that powerklaws are nowhere near as good as lascannons, and anyone who says otherwise clearly has never had to rely on them for anti-tank.

Stats on paper do not equal actual effectiveness in game. Powerklaws need a buff in damage output, and have the negative to hit penalty removed entirely. A powerklaw cannot hit on turn one unless multiple stratagems, psychic powers, or luck is involved, whereas a lascannon can be use immediately with the most basic of positioning all without a negative to hit, better damage, and more safety.

Powerklaws are nowhere near equal to lascannons.

I feel they just need to have the -1 toHit only apply to the more nimble infantry, the powerklaw should remain a bit clumsy, but should stand a far better chance of tearing into an engaged vehicle. A buff to the damage would also be nice imo.

I agree, they should add different variations of damage. For instance PK could be 2D2 damage. This would raise the max and minimum damage while still keeping some random chance in there. This should apply to many armies not just orks.

I honestly don't see why not just bring them to D6. If I can successfully march my model down the field, keep him alive, succeed the charge roll, and survive overwatch, I damn well deserve to do more damage than a lascannon that just has to sit still to do major damage turn one.

IDK, everyone compares it to the lascannon but it might not be the right comparison. 2nd. at d6 damage, it only has to make 2 hits to take down a carnifex. I don't think that'd be very healthy for the game. This is coming from an ork player who loved PK in 5th and never took them in 5th and 6th because challenges. I think you have to compare how it would affect multiple different factions and the result making a change can have.

It's a Power Klaw, not a choppa or Big Choppa. Of course it should have the potential to wreck a Carnifex in 2 hits. It also has the potential to do virtually nothing to the beast. That is the gift that is dice games and lady luck.

They should definitely be D6 damage or the penalty to hit should be removed or even both. I lose count of the number of Nobz that totally whiff. Hitting on 4+ is garbage.

Oh d6 so much, they’re what I want to rely on for big vehicles but as it is I have nothing to rely on. D6 and 3+ is even better, I long for scary Nobs.

So, given other factions in KT seem to have tactics ripped from their stratagems, do you guys think we can expect any of these in the codex?

I really hope they rework Dakka Dakka Dakka into a "shoot twice" thing, it might even be useful. Heh, imagine Flash Gits shooting four times in a turn!