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Koatga wrote:
Hi, EXALTED COURT - «Use this Stratagem before the battle, after you have chosen your Warlord.»
So... Does this call me to use the strategem immediately after choosing warlord or can I after or during the deployment?

You choose your warlord when you build your list per the BRB matched play rules. Everything else happens after that. For things that happen before the game, presumably you get to decide the order.

Hi,

If running Terryn list with 3 Gallants & a Warden would you add Helverins or Warglaives? I have space for 3 of the Armigers (to get more CPs too) and my gut says go Warglaives, however as I have 3 melee Knights already is there more use in Helverins hanging back to stop DS behind etc & popping stuff with their effetive 74" range?

Anyone playing Terryn or played both Armigers?

Until FAQ'd, none of the FW knights have the Imperial Knights

you mean like the FAQ they released?



https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/imperial_armour_index_forces_of_the_astra_militarum.pdf


Pages 95 -101
– Acastus Knight Porphyrion, Cerastus
Knight-Acheron, Cerastus Knight-Atropos, Cerastus
Knight-Castigator, Cerastus Knight-Lancer, Questoris
Knight Magaera and Questoris Knight Styrix, Keywords

Add ‘ Imperial Knights’ to the Faction keywords line.
Change ‘
Questor Imperialis
’ to read
‘
<Questor Allegiance>


RAW is they are imperial knights with that faction keyword now,

and there was much rejoicing!

 easysauce wrote:


RAW is they are imperial knights with that faction keyword now,

and there was much rejoicing!

Too bad they still can't be given extra warlord traits/relics. Biggest hindrance if you are wanting to field the IG CP battery. Or want to have multiple FW knights with relic/Trait.

Some news from the Boise ITC GT. Brandon Grant won with a list that was something like this:

VOSTROYON Shadowsword
KRAST Crusader / Crusader / Gallant
CADIA mortar battalion

The rest of the top 8 IMPERIUM were all flavors of:

GUARD - battalion and lots of hellhounds
BLANGELS - 2x slamcaptain, 3x scouts
RAVEN - 1x castellan

The 1x RAVEN castellan is the new tournament meta. It dominates every other heavy tank out there. The hellhounds eat up everything with a strong negative modifier.

Wulfey wrote:
Some news from the Boise ITC GT. Brandon Grant won with a list that was something like this:

VOSTROYON Shadowsword
KRAST Crusader / Crusader / Gallant
CADIA mortar battalion

The rest of the top 8 IMPERIUM were all flavors of:

GUARD - battalion and lots of hellhounds
BLANGELS - 2x slamcaptain, 3x scouts
RAVEN - 1x castellan

The 1x RAVEN castellan is the new tournament meta. It dominates every other heavy tank out there. The hellhounds eat up everything with a strong negative modifier.

I'm not surprised by this at all. Knights with enough CP to operate are extremely scary, to the point where it seems unclear what kind of army counters them at all. I've heard people say hordes and "play the mission" but it seems like the knights are more likely to just kill you anyway. Nerfs incoming, boys.

I assume the Raven Castellan is probably given Exalted Court so that it becomes a character and gets the Ion Bulwark trait, plus it gets the relic plasma weapon for another 1CP?

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I assume the Raven Castellan is probably given Exalted Court so that it becomes a character and gets the Ion Bulwark trait, plus it gets the relic plasma weapon for another 1CP?

Probably. And you don't really need the Raven household traits for the Castellan, but its strategem order of companies is really powerful on a Castellan with that relic plasma weapon.

Wulfey wrote:
Some news from the Boise ITC GT. Brandon Grant won with a list that was something like this:

VOSTROYON Shadowsword
KRAST Crusader / Crusader / Gallant
CADIA mortar battalion

The rest of the top 8 IMPERIUM were all flavors of:

GUARD - battalion and lots of hellhounds
BLANGELS - 2x slamcaptain, 3x scouts
RAVEN - 1x castellan

The 1x RAVEN castellan is the new tournament meta. It dominates every other heavy tank out there. The hellhounds eat up everything with a strong negative modifier.

Minor correction - Brandon Grant’s winning list actually had bulk grub and no knights. The list attributed to him above list only one game (its last one), came in 6th and was run by William Farley

 luke1705 wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Some news from the Boise ITC GT. Brandon Grant won with a list that was something like this:

VOSTROYON Shadowsword
KRAST Crusader / Crusader / Gallant
CADIA mortar battalion

The rest of the top 8 IMPERIUM were all flavors of:

GUARD - battalion and lots of hellhounds
BLANGELS - 2x slamcaptain, 3x scouts
RAVEN - 1x castellan

The 1x RAVEN castellan is the new tournament meta. It dominates every other heavy tank out there. The hellhounds eat up everything with a strong negative modifier.

Minor correction - Brandon Grant’s winning list actually had bulk grub and no knights. The list attributed to him above list only one game (its last one), came in 6th and was run by William Farley

Alright, let me get the app upgrade and check. I am confident that knights were all over the top tables.

EDIT: Rank4 has the solo RAVEN castellan. Rank 5 was majority imperial knights. Two rank 6s were majority imperial knights.

One thing to temper this just a bit is to remember that this codex just dropped and knights are hardly a conventional codex to begin with. It's not unreasonable that we'll see a shell of knight lists dominating brackets for a month or two until people come to grips with them.

And before the inevitable "knights have been around since 8th dropped that doesn't mean anything", yeah, they've been around. However, they've not been nearly this good, and we have a variety of new types now. There's going to be an adjustment period. Don't get me wrong, they're definitely good, I just wouldn't be surprised if the knight wins start to taper off in a while.

jcd386 wrote:

I'm not surprised by this at all. Knights with enough CP to operate are extremely scary, to the point where it seems unclear what kind of army counters them at all. I've heard people say hordes and "play the mission" but it seems like the knights are more likely to just kill you anyway. Nerfs incoming, boys.

Properly made ork horde has so many bodies even 4 crusaders will struggle to clear them all even if they get to charge them every round and obviously if that doesnt' happen and lose on those 12 stomps per knight per turn even more so. Orks of course will avoid giving you free stomps. Heaven forbid if orks actually go first. You could be facing having to kill 90 pts grot units that will form up 60" wide wall front of your knights preventing you from getting past your DZ quickly thus making hard to a) reach objectives b) get those stomps into ork boyz.

And crusader seems like most point efficient anti-horde knight knights have. Castellan meanwhile orks pretty much laugh at. Very inefficient against ork army with their 200-250+ models.

Now albeit orks might have to adjust a bit and for example AVOID close combat. Don't charge, fall back when getting charged. Sure you struggle to kill them. But point is to keep your boyz alive longer by denying stomp attacks(by not charging you save 24-30 attacks...) and just scoring objectives.

 luke1705 wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Some news from the Boise ITC GT. Brandon Grant won with a list that was something like this:

VOSTROYON Shadowsword
KRAST Crusader / Crusader / Gallant
CADIA mortar battalion

The rest of the top 8 IMPERIUM were all flavors of:

GUARD - battalion and lots of hellhounds
BLANGELS - 2x slamcaptain, 3x scouts
RAVEN - 1x castellan

The 1x RAVEN castellan is the new tournament meta. It dominates every other heavy tank out there. The hellhounds eat up everything with a strong negative modifier.

Minor correction - Brandon Grant’s winning list actually had bulk grub and no knights. The list attributed to him above list only one game (its last one), came in 6th and was run by William Farley

I'm assuming House Krast because of Cawl's wrath and the Krast Stratagem of re-roll 1's. It would make a lot of sense. I wonder why Krast for the other list though and what Traits, Relics they used.

MistaGav wrote:
I'm assuming House Krast because of Cawl's wrath and the Krast Stratagem of re-roll 1's. It would make a lot of sense. I wonder why Krast for the other list though and what Traits, Relics they used.

I would assume Raven. Reroll 1's on everything strategem. Number of shots, to hit, to wound, damage...That thing on castellan is pure evil. With that blowing up repulsor and leman russ at once without even melta guns/shoulder guns/missile is not unfeasible.

tneva82 wrote:

jcd386 wrote:

I'm not surprised by this at all. Knights with enough CP to operate are extremely scary, to the point where it seems unclear what kind of army counters them at all. I've heard people say hordes and "play the mission" but it seems like the knights are more likely to just kill you anyway. Nerfs incoming, boys.

Properly made ork horde has so many bodies even 4 crusaders will struggle to clear them all even if they get to charge them every round and obviously if that doesnt' happen and lose on those 12 stomps per knight per turn even more so. Orks of course will avoid giving you free stomps. Heaven forbid if orks actually go first. You could be facing having to kill 90 pts grot units that will form up 60" wide wall front of your knights preventing you from getting past your DZ quickly thus making hard to a) reach objectives b) get those stomps into ork boyz.

And crusader seems like most point efficient anti-horde knight knights have. Castellan meanwhile orks pretty much laugh at. Very inefficient against ork army with their 200-250+ models.

Now albeit orks might have to adjust a bit and for example AVOID close combat. Don't charge, fall back when getting charged. Sure you struggle to kill them. But point is to keep your boyz alive longer by denying stomp attacks(by not charging you save 24-30 attacks...) and just scoring objectives.

The thing is what are the chances you encounter an ork player ?

Well its not much but it can still happen, now what are the chances that ork player has 250 painted models ?

For me it's already literally something I never witnessed in my 15 years of gaming. THEN that specific ork has to have a list that do good against knight and THEN has to go against you in a tournament, which put the likeliness of this happening pretty much near zero, as the few ork players I know dont bring their orks horde (much less than those 250 models mind you) at tournament given how weak ork sadly are, but simply bring other army.

I mean IK HAVE counters, but that specific Ork Horde player is basically one in a million, its not a "reliable" counter that is easily accessible to most popular tournament armies. If that counter is behind a 2 years Build / Paint session and isn't "good" by itself it, statistically, will never happen.

Klone12 wrote:

The thing is what are the chances you encounter an ork player ?

Well its not much but it can still happen, now what are the chances that ork player has 250 painted models ?

For me it's already literally something I never witnessed in my 15 years of gaming. THEN that specific ork has to have a list that do good against knight and THEN has to go against you in a tournament, which put the likeliness of this happening pretty much near zero, as the few ork players I know dont bring their orks horde (much less than those 250 models mind you) at tournament given how weak ork sadly are, but simply bring other army.

I mean IK HAVE counters, but that specific Ork Horde player is basically one in a million, its not a "reliable" counter that is easily accessible to most popular tournament armies. If that counter is behind a 2 years Build / Paint session and isn't "good" by itself it, statistically, will never happen.

Last tournament I went had 3 orks(me included) And if it's ork army you can be fairly sure it's boyz spam as 200+ models is pretty much only thing orks can field that can win.

And plaguebearer spam, cultist spam, even IG trooper spam.

tneva82 wrote:

MistaGav wrote:
I'm assuming House Krast because of Cawl's wrath and the Krast Stratagem of re-roll 1's. It would make a lot of sense. I wonder why Krast for the other list though and what Traits, Relics they used.

I would assume Raven. Reroll 1's on everything strategem. Number of shots, to hit, to wound, damage...That thing on castellan is pure evil. With that blowing up repulsor and leman russ at once without even melta guns/shoulder guns/missile is not unfeasible.

Ohh yes I didn't even see that one. I'm getting my Stratagems mixed up from my Warlord traits and Houses and all sorts. That is a pretty nasty Stratagem!

MistaGav wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

MistaGav wrote:
I'm assuming House Krast because of Cawl's wrath and the Krast Stratagem of re-roll 1's. It would make a lot of sense. I wonder why Krast for the other list though and what Traits, Relics they used.

I would assume Raven. Reroll 1's on everything strategem. Number of shots, to hit, to wound, damage...That thing on castellan is pure evil. With that blowing up repulsor and leman russ at once without even melta guns/shoulder guns/missile is not unfeasible.

Ohh yes I didn't even see that one. I'm getting my Stratagems mixed up from my Warlord traits and Houses and all sorts. That is a pretty nasty Stratagem!

Yeah it seems like tailor made for Castellan sporting Cawl's wrath. It just deletes vehicle or two per round plus whatever meltas and carapace weapons do.

tneva82 wrote:

Klone12 wrote:

The thing is what are the chances you encounter an ork player ?

Well its not much but it can still happen, now what are the chances that ork player has 250 painted models ?

For me it's already literally something I never witnessed in my 15 years of gaming. THEN that specific ork has to have a list that do good against knight and THEN has to go against you in a tournament, which put the likeliness of this happening pretty much near zero, as the few ork players I know dont bring their orks horde (much less than those 250 models mind you) at tournament given how weak ork sadly are, but simply bring other army.

I mean IK HAVE counters, but that specific Ork Horde player is basically one in a million, its not a "reliable" counter that is easily accessible to most popular tournament armies. If that counter is behind a 2 years Build / Paint session and isn't "good" by itself it, statistically, will never happen.

Last tournament I went had 3 orks(me included) And if it's ork army you can be fairly sure it's boyz spam as 200+ models is pretty much only thing orks can field that can win.

And plaguebearer spam, cultist spam, even IG trooper spam.

Yeah those things are possible, and might give knights a hard time. I do wonder how many of those lists are played, though, especially with the prevalence of chess clocks popping up and the general cracking down on slow play. Those armies are just harder to play quickly, though it can be done.

I think certain Tau and eldar lists might also have what it takes to kill knights somewhat consistantly. It just seems like an automatic uphill battle, and I'm not sure that IK being an army you just have to ignore and hope to win in the mission against fits with GWs design intentions.

That boild down to read the tourney pack - no chess clocks here- I think the answer for me is use your supporting detatachments to deal with hoards. 200+ model armies are rare for practical reasons.

I would be more concerned with TH CC units which can stomp a knight

U02dah4 wrote:
That boild down to read the tourney pack - no chess clocks here- I think the answer for me is use your supporting detatachments to deal with hoards. 200+ model armies are rare for practical reasons.

I would be more concerned with TH CC units which can stomp a knight

Yes. Except knights can usually out run terminators. Needs to be a jump pack unit. Or something big n Scarry that can survive a round of shooting and fast enough to make it in.

Who fields terminators anyway? Credible TH threats will be jump pack captains. And those ARE credible threat. Couple of those make world of hurt. BA one will make short work of knight and top of that you can't even kill one before it charges and wrecks/kills a knight.

tneva82 wrote:
Who fields terminators anyway? Credible TH threats will be jump pack captains. And those ARE credible threat. Couple of those make world of hurt. BA one will make short work of knight and top of that you can't even kill one before it charges and wrecks/kills a knight.

Vanguard Veterans are decent enough too. But yeah, an Angel's Wing TH Captain with Death Visions of Sanguinius will rock a Knight.

I just picked up the codex, a Cestellan and a box of Helverins last week. I happen to own an Errant that I ran on and off with my guard. So, yes, I haven't had a chance yet to do a deep dive into the codex and am still catching up on this thread a bit but I would like to know what people think would be a good compliment to what I've accumulated so far. I kinda like the Crusader for its gattling cannon. I also own a shadowsword which is just a beast on his own so there's that as a possibility.

This is what I'm leaning to right now list wise. I picked up the Elysians for the extra 5CP and the ability to deep strike and grab end of game objectives after, hopefully, the lion share of my opponents stuff id dead:

Super heavy detachment
Castellan
Errant
?? (Crusader?)
Helverin
Helverin

Elysian Battalion
Company Commander
Company Commander
Infantry squad w/Plasmagun
Infantry squad w/Plasmagun
Infantry squad w/Plasmagun

 necron99 wrote:
I just picked up the codex, a Cestellan and a box of Helverins last week. I happen to own an Errant that I ran on and off with my guard. So, yes, I haven't had a chance yet to do a deep dive into the codex and am still catching up on this thread a bit but I would like to know what people think would be a good compliment to what I've accumulated so far. I kinda like the Crusader for its gattling cannon. I also own a shadowsword which is just a beast on his own so there's that as a possibility.

This is what I'm leaning to right now list wise. I picked up the Elysians for the extra 5CP and the ability to deep strike and grab end of game objectives after, hopefully, the lion share of my opponents stuff id dead:

Super heavy detachment
Castellan
Errant
?? (Crusader?)
Helverin
Helverin

Elysian Battalion
Company Commander
Company Commander
Infantry squad w/Plasmagun
Infantry squad w/Plasmagun
Infantry squad w/Plasmagun

If you’re only after the gatling cannon, then I’d go with the Warden and save yourself some points to put elsewhere.

If you have nowhere better the spend the points, stick with the Crusaders.

I kinda want the gattling for ranged hoard control. I'd take two gattling's on a warden if I could. I just don't see knights as wanting to be in cc. Titanic feet are nice and I guess once you've taken out all of the hardened targets with your big guns you gotta go deal with the little squishy guys

tneva82 wrote:


Too bad they still can't be given extra warlord traits/relics. Biggest hindrance if you are wanting to field the IG CP battery. Or want to have multiple FW knights with relic/Trait.

How come they cannot? the FAQ specifically outlined that they gain all the same keywords (questoris allegiances, imperial knights, must ect.) as present in the new codex

Knights(with a melee arm) in CC with vehicles is never a bad idea; you just have to find a way to get them there.

A warden is pretty good at that and saves 41, 46, 69, or 74 points(all of which could go into a carapace weapon to help add long range firepower), depending on which crusader gun you are fielding and/or if you take a guantlet over a reaper.

But you do have an errant so if you have the points a crusader is not a bad idea either; I also prefer Thermal cannon on the Crusader because of points cost and complimentary range to the Gatling cannon, points save can pay for a storm spear for longer range AT/heavy inf, or an Iron storm for very long range chaff and added gear to supporting units.

 easysauce wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Too bad they still can't be given extra warlord traits/relics. Biggest hindrance if you are wanting to field the IG CP battery. Or want to have multiple FW knights with relic/Trait.

How come they cannot? the FAQ specifically outlined that they gain all the same keywords (questoris allegiances, imperial knights, must ect.) as present in the new codex

Strategems specifically call questor/dominus class. So no those for armigers either. Now maybe i misremember but did fw knights get either of those?

tneva82 wrote:

 easysauce wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Too bad they still can't be given extra warlord traits/relics. Biggest hindrance if you are wanting to field the IG CP battery. Or want to have multiple FW knights with relic/Trait.

How come they cannot? the FAQ specifically outlined that they gain all the same keywords (questoris allegiances, imperial knights, must ect.) as present in the new codex

Strategems specifically call questor/dominus class. So no those for armigers either. Now maybe i misremember but did fw knights get either of those?

you are talking about two different things now.. before you stated they couldnt take relics or WL traits.

I think it is quite clear already that if a strategem or rule specifically says "dominus class only" it wont work on questoris, or cerastus, or the armigers.

But you stated that warlord traits and relics can not be used by FW knights, when to all indications, this is simply not the case.

(PS yes, all the questor class FW knights did in fact gain questor keyword fyi)