Adeptus Titanicus - A total bust?

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**schoon**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Rapier, described as lighter than a Warhound. Nightgaunt (formerly a sub-class Of Warlord) and Carnivore (no description or historical touchstone)

Add in the Nemesis, and that’s at least four new classes we might expect. Well, five if we include the Warrior class noted but again, not described, in Imperator.

FW has mentioned the Rapier and the Nemesis (though in the latter case they've said it's years away from AT).

**gorgon**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Not if both parties are using the same range

Me, I’m reading Titan Death.

So far, there are three classes mentioned which I don’t recognise in terms of example models.

Rapier, described as lighter than a Warhound. Nightgaunt (formerly a sub-class Of Warlord) and Carnivore (no description or historical touchstone)

Add in the Nemesis, and that’s at least four new classes we might expect. Well, five if we include the Warrior class noted but again, not described, in Imperator.

There's some speculation that the Rapier will be the 'unchaosified' version of the old Slaaneshi scout titans.

**Sherrypie**

ArcaneHorror wrote:
I've seen some people in my store play the game, and the models are often being constructed and painted there (yes I know, personal anecdote). As for myself, it seems interesting and the models look fantastic, but when I've looked inside the rulebook, the game looks like advanced calculus to me. Now, if they did expansions with true Chaos Titans and Knights that could use real Warp powers in addition to the usual firepower, I might be tempted to get into it.

Don't fret, it is quite intuitive if a tad more admin heavy than other current GW lines. If you watch the guys who play at your store for a while, it should be pretty straightforward to get the hang of it. The game has nice crunch in its mechanics without getting too burdensome, unlike, say, Battletech with its endless modifiers and heat blips. Nice abstraction wedded with the right amount of gritty micromanaging here.

**Fajita Fan**

judgedoug wrote:
Man, this thread is some weird joke. I can't believe it's seventeen pages long, full of personal anecdotes and no data, with a handful of people who seem incredibly desirous for Adeptus Titanicus to fail for some bizarro reasons.

Personally, for me - it is January 2019 and I just now have had time to start assembling my Grand Master Edition. Last year's summer release schedule was so jam packed, most of the latter half of 2018 for me was playing Middle-earth and Kill Team.

That didn't stop me from buying AT stuff, though - in addition to the GME, I have purchased the Plasma Warlord, Warhounds, 2 sets of Cerastus Knights, and the Reaver, in addition to a couple packs of command terminals and the titan weapon decks, plus the Civitas Sector box and another accessory sprue. Just got my yellow paints that I need to start making them Fureans. Can't wait for the next Reaver and the new book to come out, and look forward to playing against one of the half dozen or so gents I know also bought the game (several of whom are in the same position as myself).

You ever go up to Fredericksburg? I have a friend who lives there and I heard there are a few people who play AT at Your Hobby Place. I'm in Springfield but I go down to Fredericksburg to play Xwing with him.

**tneva82**

ArcaneHorror wrote:
I've seen some people in my store play the game, and the models are often being constructed and painted there (yes I know, personal anecdote). As for myself, it seems interesting and the models look fantastic, but when I've looked inside the rulebook, the game looks like advanced calculus to me. Now, if they did expansions with true Chaos Titans and Knights that could use real Warp powers in addition to the usual firepower, I might be tempted to get into it.

Can you do 9+6 level of calculations? Yes? Then you will have no trouble with the at rules. It's actually easier than 40k to learn(but harder to master) as it doesn't have exceptions for every unit.

**Nostromodamus**

tneva82 wrote:
ArcaneHorror wrote:
I've seen some people in my store play the game, and the models are often being constructed and painted there (yes I know, personal anecdote). As for myself, it seems interesting and the models look fantastic, but when I've looked inside the rulebook, the game looks like advanced calculus to me. Now, if they did expansions with true Chaos Titans and Knights that could use real Warp powers in addition to the usual firepower, I might be tempted to get into it.

Can you do 9+6 level of calculations? Yes? Then you will have no trouble with the at rules. It's actually easier than 40k to learn(but harder to master) as it doesn't have exceptions for every unit.

Indeed. AT is extremely easy to learn and I love it for that simplicity. Not sure where you live for basic maths to be considered “advanced calculus”.

**Fajita Fan**

Nostromodamus wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
ArcaneHorror wrote:
I've seen some people in my store play the game, and the models are often being constructed and painted there (yes I know, personal anecdote). As for myself, it seems interesting and the models look fantastic, but when I've looked inside the rulebook, the game looks like advanced calculus to me. Now, if they did expansions with true Chaos Titans and Knights that could use real Warp powers in addition to the usual firepower, I might be tempted to get into it.

Can you do 9+6 level of calculations? Yes? Then you will have no trouble with the at rules. It's actually easier than 40k to learn(but harder to master) as it doesn't have exceptions for every unit.

Indeed. AT is extremely easy to learn and I love it for that simplicity. Not sure where you live for basic maths to be considered “advanced calculus”.

It really is a snap, the hardest things to remember for me are the reactor dice modifiers and that blast weapons can't be aimed but hit the target under the hole twice. The reference card that comes with it is really complete though.

**AndrewGPaul**

tneva82 wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Not if both parties are using the same range

Actually yes. Remember los isn't mutual in at. You can have los to target while target can't return.

Range as in range of miniatures, not measuring with a tape measure. If both sides are using the old models, then it'll work fine.

**judgedoug**

Fajita Fan wrote:
You ever go up to Fredericksburg? I have a friend who lives there and I heard there are a few people who play AT at Your Hobby Place. I'm in Springfield but I go down to Fredericksburg to play Xwing with him.

Nah, in Richmond there's a fairly huge community of AT players. Couple dozen, I think. Several of the dudes in my Middle-earth and Bolt Action groups also do AT. I've just been so behind on assembly, etc.

**xttz**

I think the biggest difference to get used to with AT compared to other modern GW games is getting in the habit of checking the command terminals often. Especially in larger scale games like 40k or AoS, it's quite easy to make assumptions on unit stats are from memory. In AT units see more subtle changes such as void shield saves or location armour modifiers changing independently.

Moving terminal cards around in line with your units also helps avoid getting mixed up if you have multiples of the same class of titan.

So long as you're doing that the actual rules are really simple to follow.

**wildger**

I really hope that AT will pick up with Titandeath. One of the potential issue is cost. A lot of players feels that buying a single warlord titan for US $110 is too expensive for a single model since you can get a starter set for a lower price in 40K. Many still do not realize that a standard game for AT is going to be around 1250 to 1750 points. A full standard axiom maniple with a set of knights and rulebook set only cost you $325. The cost is lower is you are using warhounds and knights with one reaver. This is way cheaper than 40K.

**tneva82**

And yet knights in 40k sell like ice cream in sahara

**Nurglitch**

Knights in 40k remind me very strongly of the original AT Titans, the old beetle-backs, back when they were armed with autocannons and lascannons and whatnot.

On a not-unrelated note, does anyone know any third parties that are selling Lucius-pattern armour plating?

**SamusDrake**

tneva82 wrote:
And yet knights in 40k sell like ice cream in sahara

Without a doubt someone out there is buying 40k Knights! It must be Duncan...

**HoundsofDemos**

For me personally the game has little appeal do to the scale being different than everything else GW makes. I get why they did that but it means the models have no cross over value and I only get so many games a month. Not being of any use in 40k and being very expensive is killer.

**Yodhrin**

Nurglitch wrote:
Knights in 40k remind me very strongly of the original AT Titans, the old beetle-backs, back when they were armed with autocannons and lascannons and whatnot.

On a not-unrelated note, does anyone know any third parties that are selling Lucius-pattern armour plating?

No need to pay anyone, I know a couple of folk are working on making 3D models of plating sized to fit the new Warlord chassis, it'll end up on Thingiverse eventually no doubt, you'll just need access to a printer.

**Nurglitch**

Yodhrin wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:
Knights in 40k remind me very strongly of the original AT Titans, the old beetle-backs, back when they were armed with autocannons and lascannons and whatnot.

On a not-unrelated note, does anyone know any third parties that are selling Lucius-pattern armour plating?

No need to pay anyone, I know a couple of folk are working on making 3D models of plating sized to fit the new Warlord chassis, it'll end up on Thingiverse eventually no doubt, you'll just need access to a printer.

Cool, thanks for the head's up.

**Toofast**

HoundsofDemos wrote:
For me personally the game has little appeal do to the scale being different than everything else GW makes. I get why they did that but it means the models have no cross over value and I only get so many games a month. Not being of any use in 40k and being very expensive is killer.

That's what has kept anyone in my area from buying it. If I want to get a game, I will have to provide a maniple for my opponent and run demo games. If the Warlord was the same size as an IK, people could proxy their IK in for AT games, or buy a warlord and use it in 40k games. I'm sure GW did this intentionally, but it has definitely kept people from playing it. The GW manager in my area also said that a lot of people had been interested initially due to the potential to use the models in 40k, but once they realized the sizes of the titans, they lost interest. In other specialist games like Necromunda, you can at least use the models as proxies in kill team or 40k, or use them for D&D. The AT models can really only be used in AT which limits the amount of people that actually have a use for them. I like the models enough I might build a second maniple and try to get a small group together but it's not going to be easy or cheap. If I want to play anything else I just show up with my models and I can find a game.

**tneva82**

Hardly intentional. Size of warlord in fluff has been set for looooong time. Epic is 6mm. Therefore size of warlord is pretty obvious...

What? They should have changed scale of game? THAT would have gone happy. People already were pissed off when there was misconception AT was 8mm game thus making titans out of scale for epic miniatures(6mm). Imagine if that HAD been truth...

**SamusDrake**

Toofast wrote:

That's what has kept anyone in my area from buying it. If I want to get a game, I will have to provide a maniple for my opponent and run demo games. If the Warlord was the same size as an IK, people could proxy their IK in for AT games, or buy a warlord and use it in 40k games. I'm sure GW did this intentionally, but it has definitely kept people from playing it. The GW manager in my area also said that a lot of people had been interested initially due to the potential to use the models in 40k, but once they realized the sizes of the titans, they lost interest. In other specialist games like Necromunda, you can at least use the models as proxies in kill team or 40k, or use them for D&D. The AT models can really only be used in AT which limits the amount of people that actually have a use for them. I like the models enough I might build a second maniple and try to get a small group together but it's not going to be easy or cheap. If I want to play anything else I just show up with my models and I can find a game.

If you are just demonstrating the game then you can use open play. You don't have to stick rigidly to the 3-titan maniple minimum, unless playing a more serious game where someone might be practicing for a tournament.

**Toofast**

tneva82 wrote:
Hardly intentional. Size of warlord in fluff has been set for looooong time. Epic is 6mm. Therefore size of warlord is pretty obvious...

What? They should have changed scale of game? THAT would have gone happy. People already were pissed off when there was misconception AT was 8mm game thus making titans out of scale for epic miniatures(6mm). Imagine if that HAD been truth...

Isn't the new AT stuff much bigger than the older stuff even though they're both "6mm"?

**Mr_Rose**

Toofast wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Hardly intentional. Size of warlord in fluff has been set for looooong time. Epic is 6mm. Therefore size of warlord is pretty obvious...
What? They should have changed scale of game? THAT would have gone happy. People already were pissed off when there was misconception AT was 8mm game thus making titans out of scale for epic miniatures(6mm). Imagine if that HAD been truth...

Isn't the new AT stuff much bigger than the older stuff even though they're both "6mm"?

The new Titans are much bigger than the old ones because the old ones were out of scale with the infantry and vehicles. Or the infantry and vehicles were out of scale with the Titans. Depending on your PoV vis a vis relative release dates.
Either way, one of them was the wrong size, so they chose one value, pinned the system scale to that, and are setting everything up to be in scale with each other going forward. And also, completely coincidentally, backwards one generation or so to the Epic vehicles (especially aircraft) Forge World sold previously.

**tneva82**

Toofast wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Hardly intentional. Size of warlord in fluff has been set for looooong time. Epic is 6mm. Therefore size of warlord is pretty obvious...

What? They should have changed scale of game? THAT would have gone happy. People already were pissed off when there was misconception AT was 8mm game thus making titans out of scale for epic miniatures(6mm). Imagine if that HAD been truth...

Isn't the new AT stuff much bigger than the older stuff even though they're both "6mm"?

Yes. Old titans were seriously underscaled but if you measure new warlord it's pretty much spot on 32m or so in 6mm scale.

It's now accurately 6mm rather than around 2mm scale old one was

**Johanxp**

So.... new sceneries, new supplement, new miniatures and another batch of Grand Master edition boxed set.
Really a total bust!

**tneva82**

With more plastic kits being planned. Yeah real bust. Let's design new plastic kits that needs to sell a lot to break even for busted game!

**SamusDrake**

Hind sight is a wonderful thing.

The release of Titanicus wasn't exactly inspiring confidence with a £175 price tag just to get started, and even worse if you bought the pieces separately...

And lets face it, it took 6 months to be able to say "yeah, right, sure its a bust". During that time there have been doubts over the lack of units to field, the futility of the Questoris and of course the uproar over weapon sprues.

However, todays news gives us great confidence regarding the future of the game. Doom of Molech, more Knights'n'Titans incoming, new weapons and buildings. GW still needs to look at the entry point of this game, but otherwise it seems to be going well.

**tneva82**

IT might have seen hard sell but it was selling obviously well since warlord was one of their best selling kits of 2018...Nevermind reavers selling out which annoyed me unable to get them right away.

Signs that it was selling hot cakes were out there already in 2018.

**SamusDrake**

tneva82 wrote:
IT might have seen hard sell but it was selling obviously well since warlord was one of their best selling kits of 2018...Nevermind reavers selling out which annoyed me unable to get them right away.

Signs that it was selling hot cakes were out there already in 2018.

At that point it was unclear as to whether GW had underproduced or it was genuinely selling. And was it a case of Titan-lovers buying into the models or the general GW audience into the game itself? Of all the items that did not seem to sell out was the rule set.

But being fair I do remember some models selling out on Wayland. When ordering a box of warhounds, shortly after release, they were going even as I put my order in and sold out by that evening. So glad I didn't dally! The Warlord was always in stock, though, and very surprised he outsold the Questoris Knights...considering their adorable size!

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Hindsight nothing,

Monsiuer Cliquebaít, the OP, posted this really shortly after the release.

**Overread**

Here's the thing even if GW underproduced; selling out of a new release is a major thing. It means that GW's estimations were wrong and if we assume that when they launch something they make an economical number of investments in stock that they think should last a healthy period of time; then it strongly suggests that the game is doing better than planned and thus is even more suitable for long term support.

The only time this would change is if the product were intended to be a one-release event. If AT was a single release with no plans to support it any further then things would be different. However it was, at launch, already a product GW wanted to take into at least the short term of several years if not the medium and long term; so selling out very fast and retaining a high sales rate compared to stock levels is a very strong sign of a healthy product that can last a decent whilte in the market