What part of the Lore do you dislike?

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**Asherian Command**

I really don't like the tau's 'perfect strategies' how immedately when the book focuses on the tau characters every imperial characters intelligence goes into the negative and become the biggest morons in existence.

Also doesn't help that tau still somehow managed to survive a tyranid invasion with little suffering.

**epronovost**

Asherian Command wrote:
I really don't like the tau's 'perfect strategies' how immedately when the book focuses on the tau characters every imperial characters intelligence goes into the negative and become the biggest morons in existence.

Also doesn't help that tau still somehow managed to survive a tyranid invasion with little suffering.

That's not a tau problem so much that it's a "everybody declared as a military genius" problem. When we focus on Imperials, its the xenos and Chaos commanders that look foolish and stupid. Writters are usually a lot dumber than the characters they are writting and they of course aren't military geniuses themselves or even have basic knowledge of military strategy.

**Asherian Command**

epronovost wrote:
Asherian Command wrote:
I really don't like the tau's 'perfect strategies' how immedately when the book focuses on the tau characters every imperial characters intelligence goes into the negative and become the biggest morons in existence.

Also doesn't help that tau still somehow managed to survive a tyranid invasion with little suffering.

That's not a tau problem so much that it's a "everybody declared as a military genius" problem. When we focus on Imperials, its the xenos and Chaos commanders that look foolish and stupid. Writters are usually a lot dumber than the characters they are writting and they of course aren't military geniuses themselves or even have basic knowledge of military strategy.

Which is so strange, you just pick up a book or watch any movie about the military or hell 'waterloo' and you'll see the tactics at hand. You can have both intelligent characters approach it from different angles based on cultural standards. Its not as hard to write as some people think of a military strategy.

**HoundsofDemos**

Not one coherent part of the fluff but GW's general inability to get numbers right in any kind of realistic manner. Between it's terrible comprehensive of army sizes, nonsensical weapon and vehicle measurements and just poor sense of scale, I really wish GW would hire someone at least on a consulting basis to get some of that stuff right.

**Asherian Command**

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Not one coherent part of the fluff but GW's general inability to get numbers right in any kind of realistic manner. Between it's terrible comprehensive of army sizes, nonsensical weapon and vehicle measurements and just poor sense of scale, I really wish GW would hire someone at least on a consulting basis to get some of that stuff right.

If anything there should be someone there who just does the numbers.

Trillions of guardsmen per a regiment, trillions of space marines. A million chapter across a billion of worlds...

Septillions of humans in the milky way... Or you know. Untold amounts and just rough estimation like "We don't even have any idea, we have a billion scribes whose job it is to just run the numbers."

**bouncingboredom**

Andykp wrote:I still don’t the problem with the dna coding thing. ORKS being engineered is a fundamental part of their fluff and makes much more sense than them all drinking from some warp soup rubbish and all feeding of magic ORK knowledge in the warp. Current research suggests that acquired knowledge and traits are passed on genetically by the sperm and eggs being altered after creation. So it isn’t a stretch for a bioengineered species to pass on knowledge genetically. It happen in real life. Why not with ORKS.

I guarantee you now nobody is born knowing how to build a nuclear reactor. I just find it dumb and lazy.

**w1zard**

bouncingboredom wrote:
I guarantee you now nobody is born knowing how to build a nuclear reactor. I just find it dumb and lazy.

Not just build a nuclear reactor, but do it entirely on instinct, without even really knowing what it does or how it works. I actually love it.

**HoundsofDemos**

w1zard wrote:
bouncingboredom wrote:
I guarantee you now nobody is born knowing how to build a nuclear reactor. I just find it dumb and lazy.

Not just build a nuclear reactor, but do it entirely on instinct, without even really knowing what it does or how it works. I actually love it.

Orks didn't evolve naturally, the Old Ones designed them to be a collective WMD. They are the ultimate fighting species, the perfect warrior race. Unless you kill all of them, they will be back, and in a year or two they have worm hole cannons and fighter jets. I love that about orks because as that one eldar quote goes, in the crappiest universe they won, they have everything they need and they are having a hell of a good time.

**Crimson**

w1zard wrote:
bouncingboredom wrote:
I guarantee you now nobody is born knowing how to build a nuclear reactor. I just find it dumb and lazy.

Not just build a nuclear reactor, but do it entirely on instinct, without even really knowing what it does or how it works. I actually love it.

Yep, that's amazing. And not even that implausible. Beavers know instinctively how to build a dam, and they evolved naturally instead of being carefully bio-engineered by ancient god-aliens.

**Pacific**

Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
bouncingboredom wrote:

- Orks as fungus? Jesus.
- For that matter, Orks having their knowledge coded into their DNA. Why not just have them learn stuff through trial and (considerable) error, reverse engineering, hand me down knowledge etc. It feels like something that didn't really need explaining away with some stupid lore, much like Ork reproduction or why orks get more rowdy in numbers. Even the "red ones go faster" thing didn't need explaining. It could have just been a joke about superstitions and confirmation bias.
- Sticking with Orks, and how they talk, early days of 40K/WHFB Orks talked basically like me (inconsistent Essex/Cockney type accent). They were brutal, but also cunning. Not exactly scholarly, but not massive thickos either. "Now oll da orks tawlk like dis wiv da stoopid ova xaggera-ra-ated axe ent". It's infuri-, infurry-, inferui- ... zoggin' annoyin'!!
- For that matter, how is it that across the entire expanse of the known galaxy there's basically only 6 homogenous Ork tribes?

-I have always though the Fungus thing to be one of the more interesting things about Orks helping them feel a little more sci-fi for an otherwise worn-out fantasy cliche. I also figured that they aren't exactly like fungi we know being alien, but fungus being the closest thing we would understand them to be.
-I think the coded DNA thing is the quickest, easiest way to explain how Orks can actually compete technologically with the other factions of 40k. Well, that and their group psychic ability which fills in the gaps where we know it shouldn't work. Given they are essentially a race of living (degenerate) super weapons, it is fairly conceivable in the loose interpretation of science that 40k has that the Old Ones encoded the Korks with such knowledge. Far better than trying to come up with ork learning and knowledge storing methods/facilities.

Despite what you are writing making perfect sense, I defy you to look at the old Ork books from first edition (Waarghh Orks & 'Ere we go especially), compare them to the latest Ork codex, and tell me that nothing has been lost.

**Andykp**

bouncingboredom wrote:
Andykp wrote:I still don’t the problem with the dna coding thing. ORKS being engineered is a fundamental part of their fluff and makes much more sense than them all drinking from some warp soup rubbish and all feeding of magic ORK knowledge in the warp. Current research suggests that acquired knowledge and traits are passed on genetically by the sperm and eggs being altered after creation. So it isn’t a stretch for a bioengineered species to pass on knowledge genetically. It happen in real life. Why not with ORKS.
I guarantee you now nobody is born knowing how to build a nuclear reactor. I just find it dumb and lazy.

They are not people though, they are bioengineered aliens. That’s the point, they are alien- as in different. If not they would just be green angry people. Dull. It takes more imagination to come with ORKS as they are rather than them just being another humanoid sentient race. The problem is that since the story has been condensed and dumbed down to a few paragraphs. The mysteries of the brain boys and the ORKS purpose is classic 40k style. A lost and tragic race of weapons from a bygone age now without purpose or direction, just being a bloody nuisance all over instead.

**queen_annes_revenge**

Id prefer if they were just another brutal humanoid race who spoke in dodgy cockney accents. I think GW go too far trying to make interesting backstory and end up making it stupid.

**Andykp**

queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Id prefer if they were just another brutal humanoid race who spoke in dodgy cockney accents. I think GW go too far trying to make interesting backstory and end up making it stupid.

But it’s been their backstory since day one.

**voskom**

I really don't dislike any of the fluff. Since it's all told from a human perspective, or humans pretending to be able to think like aliens, it's easy to cast as Imperial Propaganda akin to North Korea's, designed to show the outside universe as a malevolent force bent on its complete destruction, which must be fought at all times. Any or all of it may be lies, complete fabrications, or hilarious misunderstandings all designed to gin up economic support from a deluded citizenry (heh).

**darkcloak**

Part of the lore I hate...

Hmmm, Fulgrim. The novel. Hadda force myself to finish that book.

Like why do the EC rebel?

Because we're faaaaaabulous!

Literally. It's just cringe worthy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Which isn't to say I dislike the EC or Fulgrim or even how their story unfolds. It's just... Such a bad novel...

So bad...

**pm713**

voskom wrote:
I really don't dislike any of the fluff. Since it's all told from a human perspective, or humans pretending to be able to think like aliens, it's easy to cast as Imperial Propaganda akin to North Korea's, designed to show the outside universe as a malevolent force bent on its complete destruction, which must be fought at all times. Any or all of it may be lies, complete fabrications, or hilarious misunderstandings all designed to gin up economic support from a deluded citizenry (heh).

That's not really accurate though. Things specific to xenos and chaos are sometimes from their perspectives.

**LunaWolvesLoyalist**

Primaris. Lore abortions.

**Thargrim**

Primaris, and returning of loyalist primarchs. The imperium is supposed to be stagnating, not improving their tech with grav tanks and sleek primaris marines and heresy. It's just no longer the same universe I grew up with. And I feel most of this new lore is just there to justify selling a whole new range of models...not because it makes any logical sense.

**Mattlov**

Ferrus Manus. Nothing about him or his philosophies, just the sheer fething gak laziness to name the Primarch of the Iron Hands "Iron Hands."

**Patriarch Phyrx**

Thargrim wrote:
Primaris, and returning of loyalist primarchs. The imperium is supposed to be stagnating, not improving their tech with grav tanks and sleek primaris marines and heresy. It's just no longer the same universe I grew up with. And I feel most of this new lore is just there to justify selling a whole new range of models...not because it makes any logical sense.

Have you read Dark Imperium and Plague War?

It’s perhaps even more 40k now than it was before the Primaris Marines and Primarch....

**queen_annes_revenge**

Thargrim wrote:
Primaris, and returning of loyalist primarchs. The imperium is supposed to be stagnating, not improving their tech with grav tanks and sleek primaris marines and heresy. It's just no longer the same universe I grew up with. And I feel most of this new lore is just there to justify selling a whole new range of models...not because it makes any logical sense.

whilst I see your point, your last statement is kind of obvious, of course GW want to sell more models..thats their whole business.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

darkcloak wrote:
Part of the lore I hate...

Hmmm, Fulgrim. The novel. Hadda force myself to finish that book.

Like why do the EC rebel?

Because we're faaaaaabulous!

Literally. It's just cringe worthy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Which isn't to say I dislike the EC or Fulgrim or even how their story unfolds. It's just... Such a bad novel...

So bad...

wasnt Fulgrim corrupted by the slaanesh sword? which left his susceptible to Horus sweet talking?

**pm713**

Yes but they can sell more models for existing units by updating the ranges once in a while so things like Eldar don't get stuck with atrocities for years on end or by making new units that make a degree of sense rather than what they did with the Wraithknight with the whole "it's bigger so it's better" thing.

**Ginjitzu**

Squats!

Honestly, portraying dwarfs as an alien species when dwarfism is just a human condition is quite frankly offensive. Honestly, I'm glad Squats got squatted and hope they never return.

**pm713**

Ginjitzu wrote:
Squats!

Honestly, portraying dwarfs as an alien species when dwarfism is just a human condition is quite frankly offensive. Honestly, I'm glad Squats got squatted and hope they never return.

I'm curious, do you find fantasy dwarfs offensive as well?

**queen_annes_revenge**

Squats are already back, at least in Necromunda. but I agree, they should just be a human variant, not alien.

**Ginjitzu**

pm713 wrote:
Ginjitzu wrote:
Squats!

Honestly, portraying dwarfs as an alien species when dwarfism is just a human condition is quite frankly offensive. Honestly, I'm glad Squats got squatted and hope they never return.

I'm curious, do you find fantasy dwarfs offensive as well?

When you think about it, yeah. Like, where did this idea that dwarfs are another species come from? Actually, I looked it up and apparently it comes from German folk lore, and I think the condition may actually be named after the lore. But still, imagine if I wrote a fantasy series that had an entire race of people with Down's Syndrome, and gave them stereotypical characteristics.

"The Mongoloids hail from the Eastern Steppe. They are a kind and simple race with no real aptitude for technology or engineering. They sometimes struggle with the concepts of more "advanced" civilizations, but set them to task and they will endeavor to complete it with single minded determination. They are often possessed of strength far beyond what might be guessed from their appearance."

Offensive? Damn fething right!

**SeanDavid1991**

Ginjitzu wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Ginjitzu wrote:
Squats!

Honestly, portraying dwarfs as an alien species when dwarfism is just a human condition is quite frankly offensive. Honestly, I'm glad Squats got squatted and hope they never return.

I'm curious, do you find fantasy dwarfs offensive as well?

When you think about it, yeah. Like, where did this idea that dwarfs are another species come from? Actually, I looked it up and apparently it comes from German folk lore, and I think the condition may actually be named after the lore. But still, imagine if I wrote a fantasy series that had an entire race of people with Down's Syndrome, and gave them stereotypical characteristics.

"The Mongoloids hail from the Eastern Steppe. They are a kind and simple race with no real aptitude for technology or engineering. They sometimes struggle with the concepts of more "advanced" civilizations, but set them to task and they will endeavor to complete it with single minded determination. They are often possessed of strength far beyond what might be guessed from their appearance."

Offensive? Damn fething right!

Hello,

If you have any issues with abnormal bodily happenings or reports of anyone with such a statutre please supply the following.

https://regimental-standard.com/2018/01/24/are-you-a-mutant/

**pm713**

Ginjitzu wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Ginjitzu wrote:
Squats!

Honestly, portraying dwarfs as an alien species when dwarfism is just a human condition is quite frankly offensive. Honestly, I'm glad Squats got squatted and hope they never return.

I'm curious, do you find fantasy dwarfs offensive as well?

When you think about it, yeah. Like, where did this idea that dwarfs are another species come from? Actually, I looked it up and apparently it comes from German folk lore, and I think the condition may actually be named after the lore. But still, imagine if I wrote a fantasy series that had an entire race of people with Down's Syndrome, and gave them stereotypical characteristics.

"The Mongoloids hail from the Eastern Steppe. They are a kind and simple race with no real aptitude for technology or engineering. They sometimes struggle with the concepts of more "advanced" civilizations, but set them to task and they will endeavor to complete it with single minded determination. They are often possessed of strength far beyond what might be guessed from their appearance."

Offensive? Damn fething right!

Dwarfs are more than just short people though. They generally have radically different cultures, biological makeup and predate human civilisation. It's like complaining elves are just tall humans.

**Sgt_Smudge**

Ginjitzu wrote:
When you think about it, yeah. Like, where did this idea that dwarfs are another species come from? Actually, I looked it up and apparently it comes from German folk lore, and I think the condition may actually be named after the lore. But still, imagine if I wrote a fantasy series that had an entire race of people with Down's Syndrome, and gave them stereotypical characteristics.

"The Mongoloids hail from the Eastern Steppe. They are a kind and simple race with no real aptitude for technology or engineering. They sometimes struggle with the concepts of more "advanced" civilizations, but set them to task and they will endeavor to complete it with single minded determination. They are often possessed of strength far beyond what might be guessed from their appearance."

Offensive? Damn fething right!

If the condition is named after the folklore, then that means the folklore came first? I don't really understand how something can be offensive if it's literally the etymological foundation of the condition?

Also, the oldest sources of Norse myth actually make no mention of Dwarves as short - hell, four of them hold up the sky!

**Ginjitzu**

pm713 wrote:It's like complaining elves are just tall humans.

It's not, because elves aren't actually real, whereas dwarfs are.

Sgt_Smudge wrote:If the condition is named after the folklore, then that means the folklore came first? I don't really understand how something can be offensive if it's literally the etymological foundation of the condition?

Also, the oldest sources of Norse myth actually make no mention of Dwarves as short - hell, four of them hold up the sky!

That's a good point about the Norse Dwarves. It's the same in the Elder Scrolls series; Dwemer or Dwarves are portrayed as being just as tall as any other race, so I think they do it right. As I said, I only suspect that the condition was named after the folklore, which is pretty offensive in of itself when you think about it, right? I don't know. Maybe dwarfs in fantasy are fine, since they probably came first, and it's the name of the condition that's the real issue? Come to think of it, is that why some dwarfs don't like that term and prefer the phrase, "short person" instead?