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Hey Dakka!

I am putting together a new list for CSM. I have seen a few dedicated list that are out there and I wanted to try my hand at customizing my own flavor. I decided to go with a non-deamon/renegade CSM style, because Chaos doesnt always "*poof* I have spikes now!" but it can be a slow corrupting process. I also chose the Warpsmith as my Main HQ because I'm going for a more Mech/Machine build to fit in with the story I have put together for this army. So please check my list and provide feedback.

The Forge Master has found new evidence that the religious dogma of the Adeptus Mechanicus does not truly understand that Machines are just that...Machines. He realized that there is no need for a initiation Prayer when all you have to do is press the *On* button; And so he has left the [AM] and has made his own advances in the weaponry and armour of his Battle Company. But little does did he know that Tzeentch has tricked him into letting down his guard and removing the Sanctifying rites of Cleansing during his *upgrades*.

HQ:

Warpsmith
MoTz
Aura of DG
BB of Skralathax

170



Troops:

3x CSM squads of 5

1 with MoTz and Icon of Flame
100

1 with MoK, 4 CCWs, Chain Axe
101

1 with MoK, *Only* CCWs, Chain Axe
93



Elite:

2x Hellbrute
Power scourge and Plasma cannon

240


Heavy Support:

2x Preds
2x LasCannon Sponsons
2x Warpflame gargoyles
2x Deamonic Possession
2x Havoc Launchers

294



The Deployment would be have the tanks seperate to cover fire on as much as possible. The Waprsmith will be behind and in between the 2 Hellbrutes to block LoS and to repair asap while they continuously move forward. The CSM Tz and K (with bolters) will move on any objectives, or tarpit any deepstrikers. The last CSM squad will be only to tarpit assaulters going for the Warpsmith because he will be hidden (hopefully) by the hellbrutes, the CSM Mok will be in Close combat to allow either shooting right after from the hellbrutes and Warpsmith, or to set up the charge by said units.


I plan on using both CSM and Vanilla Space Marine models to convert and put them together to show the Mid-phase corruption of a Space Marine Company. All Models will be painted with white/gold/red to how the previous Chapter colors looked, while also having the colors on various sections of the models changed to Black/Silver/Red.


Thanks Again Dakka!

Hello, I had a quick look at this one as I'm putting together a similar sized CSM force for a battle in a few days. I also have a mix of CSM and SM models all tied in with a similar paint job to reflect traitors marines rather then full blown CSM. I'm hampered a little with having a small selection of CSM models (and far too many terminators).

Thinking about your list:
Once you have deployed you have no real surprised for your opponent and nothing particularly fast to re-deply with. Bearing in mind the pts of the Warpsmith this is into the Huron character territory which could allow all of your troop units to infiltrate or effectively deploy last.
I'm not sure how affetive the warpsmith will be, particularly as he has four machines to try an keep running, two of which can glance themselves. Hiding him with the helbrutes will be ineffective as any line of site to him and he's down to his 4+ inv save, for example a couple of missile launcher hits are likely to take him down. (Can he repair something and fire the burning brand in the same turn?)

I think the predators are far too expensive. Similarly the marks on the small units are over the top, particularly the MoT; ifyou want an emergency 6+ save go to ground. You have got three troop choices in there which is good, I've only managed two, one of which is a bigger unit.

I do like the two helbrutes, but if you have got the models a couple of oblits would get you the plasma cannon (every other turn) and possibly stand up better to enemy fire. That would put your warpsmith firmly back with the predators, which could propperly block LOS to him.

You're certainly onto something with the force, just need to watch for flyers.

I havent put much thought into suprising foes. I figured if I could blast away with hard targets, it would leave troops open enough to survive a few rounds to contest or claim objectives.

I also didnt realize Huron gave the infiltrate special rule. I never really gave it a second look.

The idea was that the warpsmith would keep up with the hellbrutes repairing away and shooting if there is no repairing to be done, but your right about only 2 hellbrutes not covering him enough to keep him safe. I will look into this more and hopefully have a better usage with the hellbrutes.

Thank you so much for your feedback! I get focused easily on one build or style and I like to get outside opinions for tactics.

At this points level 4 vechicles is alot. Now that may play into your favor, however I don't feel that it's needed. Heck if you took one BaleDrake at 1k you've already got the upper hand. Here are my few thoughts, keep in mind that I don't know what models you have so... :

-If you're going to use the warpfalme gargs then take heavy bolters. You want to POUR shots into a unit in order to take advantage of that. If you paid the points for warpflame then you've already designated that tank as anti-infantry, so make it anti-infantry. IMHO you should just take 3 Oblits (in 3 seperate squads) and they are less points and have greater versitility. You get more bang for your buck there and save (if you give them MON) 66 points that you can relagate into beefing up your troops.

-Way too many points on the Warpsmith. Your better off with even just a named character or even a Lvl 3 unmarked sorc. Keeping him unmarked lets you take 3 rolls on the biomancy table which can produce some huge force multipliers for you army, esp at 1k. He comes with a force weapon which you get to choose, depending on how you model it, between an axe, a sword, or whatever. Heck, just a lord w/ MON that unlocks Plague Marines would be, IMHO, a better choice. Heck, take Huron, I love him. Infiltrate, which also lets you outflank, is worh half of his points. In addition he gets random psychic powers that can boost his already good CC abilities or give you other force multipliers. In this case you'd save 10 points.

- Drop the Helbrutes and take a Heldrake with Baleflamer (aka BaleDrake) just with that you'll win alot of games at this points level against marine armies. S6 AP3 template that is turret mounts with torrent is redic, oh yeah and it's also a flyer AND it gets D3+2 S7 AP3 attacks on any unit it flys over in the movement phase. That machine kills alot, just saying. Just with that you save another 70 points.

- For the troops, take only 2. One unit of CSM kitted out the way you want, with 2 special weapons at least. If you're taking Huron at this point You'll want to figure that this unit of CSM is going to be infiltrating, so kit them out in that manner. Secondly either take a small suad of CSM or a 10 man unit of cultists just to keep the back feild. Everytime they get shot go to ground to increase their chances of surviving, no one cares what they do. If someone is shooting at them it only means one of two things, either they don't know what their doing and you're going to win, or they have nothing else to shoot at which usually means you've already lost. Their cheap and you should treat them that way.

Hopefully any of this has been helpful. All I would really say, as heartfelt advice, is to never stop play testing. Cause I honestly feel that everyone has their own army and play style, and just because one thing works for one person does not mean it will work for anyone else in the world. SO if the original list works for you then don't let anyone here stop you from being so damn good with it. GL>

This has been very helpful!

I definitely glad someone pointed out my preds would be a waste with the wrong upgrades. I just thought of loading them up with everything haha.

And saving 66 points is a lot. Too much to be wasting.

I do have a question on infiltrating CSM.

- For the troops, take only 2. One unit of CSM kitted out the way you want, with 2 special weapons at least. If you're taking Huron at this point You'll want to figure that this unit of CSM is going to be infiltrating, so kit them out in that manner.

What would be a idea build for these guys? I honestly dont know how well the different builds would be tailored to.

Good point made about the play testing and using what works for you.

Regarding tayloring an unit to infiltrate, if you are going to infiltrate with the hopes of getting around to target weak vehicle armour / shoot things up it probably going to be a missile launcher / plasmagun / combi plasma OR melta-guns and combi melta (assuming you have to wander to get into range). If you are infiltrating to assault then the melta approach + a power weapon and CC weapon + pistols on the troops is not a bad one against elite armies. This could be further buffer by a mark - slanesh to attack first - Khorne for the extra attacks - Nurgle to tame power weapons - Tzentch because you have spare points(?). If you are infiltrating to fight hordes fill up with flamers and combi-flamers.

Infiltrating I feel is really a tricky art to master, and especially hard to build a list around from the get go. Play test it first to see if you even like it, then you'll know what you really want to get out of the unit(s) that you're going to be infiltrating. The problem with the Warlord trait is that it's D3, so you're garunteed at least one, on avereage 2.

Also a few other things to note about infiltrating with any army. First off it unlocks the ability to outflank, so it's not just limiting to deployment. Having a unit come in right next to a castled up backfeild can really help wreck some havoc.

Also remember that only Infantry units can utilize this trait. So no spawn or bikes, however that does mean all troop choices as well as Termies, Oblits, Mutilators, Havocs, etc. This may open up your mind to new ideas of what to take in your list.

Remember that YOU DON"T HAVE TO INFILTRATE. Just because you get the ability doesn't mean you have to use it. infact there may be various times when you need to just start everything on the borad and keep things tights. While you may be writing a list around this idea, you also have the option of not using it. Depending on the opponent you might be handicapping yourself by infiltrating, once again only play testing will help you realize these situations.

As I said earlier, you're going to have to play test it a bit to figure out how to equip the units you want to infiltrate. I'd also note that you should have more than one unit you'd like to infiltrate, depending on the situation and army. The best tool I've ever had in 40k is options. Lots of them.

Lastly, so I don't trail on for too long, remember that you can't assault the turn you infiltrate. However if you go second some people I know play that then you can assault. Secondly, if you want a IC to inflitrate with a unit you have to nominate both as infiltrating since they are two seperate units prior to deployment. Anyways have fun.

Use it to deploy havocs last.