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Hello all, I tried my first game of dreadball tonight and we seemed to come up against a fairly fundamental problem...

How do you make the enemy team drop the ball?

The only point I could see in the book fore getting the other guy to actually drop the ball was: Stealing the ball.

And well, that's it.

Well, almost... On page 31, the introductioney / fluffy text for Scattering The Ball says:

Much of the time the ball will be safely controlled by a player. However, this is not always the case, and whether it misses a strike or is knocked from a players grasp by a Slam it scatters in the same way

Yet, I can find no reference to the player dropping the ball in a slam, only in a steal, which isn't referenced.

On that subject, I've not really found any real suggestions about if more stuff goes on with being knocked down, aside from the 'stand up' bit. - I know it's obvious but, I can't, technically find the bit that forbids a player doing normal stuff, like running when he's knocked down... I mean, it's ludicrous of course but never having played Blood Bowl or the like, I just want to find this sort of stuff in the darned book.

I mean, it's a good thing I have some knowledge of the game and blood bowl before hand, so I can work out how it's supposed to be played however, I'm finding it really hellish to find instructions written down on how to do it properly.

For example, the Foul: Sucker Punch - why tell me doing that is actually a special kind of slam in that section? Shouldn't it have told me that I can't run round and punch someone in the back in the Slam part, then tell me later on. "You can do this as a foul."

My thought process as a new player is. "Ok, I want to slam a dude, I look at the Slam section and follow the instructions there." Since it never has that exception printed in that bit, I'm never going to realise that it's a Foul: and I'm doing a potentially risky move...

Anyhow, that's a 2am stream of unconsciousness after a very confusing game of dreadball.

In saying all that, if you actually know what you're doing the game seems like great fun.

Dropping the ball isn't referenced directly in slam because one of the slam results is being knocked over and falling whilst carrying the ball always causes it to scatter. That's listed as one of the ways to lose the ball under ending a rush on pg 32.

As for sucker punch not being listed as illegal under the slam action, the rulebook separates legal and foul actions into separate sections. There is an implicit assumption that people will read the rulebook through before trying to play a game and so will have seen where all this stuff is. I've yet to find any game which is playable if you don't do that.

There is a lot of stuff that has been FAQ'd now (such as Stand Up being the only legal action for a fallen player) and it's worth going onto the Mantic forums and getting one of the quick reference sheets that people have made as it saves having to look a lot of stuff up in the rulebook during the first few games.

Interestingly I've found that people who've never played bloodbowl before find dreadball easier to pick up as they don't have to unlearn the things that work differently.

Cheers for that, I've got a couple more questions about Fouls.

Is a Foul: Stomp just a slam on an opponent that's knocked down? Or can you stomp any time of a model that's in your threat hexes.

Additionally, is a Foul: Stall just a run or a sprint etc, that you end up in the opponents yellow hex?

In which case, wouldn't it be smart to save that as the last action you do in a turn, resulting in there only being a single 'ref check' needed until your next turn?

Also, just checking about Event cards, do events remain in play until another event is used, or do special moves or other cards cancel it as well?

Oh, another confusing thing I've found... Orx are always guards, with their downside being 5+ for skill checks but, as guards, don't they never use skill checks? Same as, goblins are 5+ on strength, but every situation that requires a strength check, a goblin could always 'dodge' instead. Doesn't this then mean that, mathematically, the Marauders are always the better team?

 Compel wrote:
Cheers for that, I've got a couple more questions about Fouls.

Is a Foul: Stomp just a slam on an opponent that's knocked down? Or can you stomp any time of a model that's in your threat hexes.

Additionally, is a Foul: Stall just a run or a sprint etc, that you end up in the opponents yellow hex?

In which case, wouldn't it be smart to save that as the last action you do in a turn, resulting in there only being a single 'ref check' needed until your next turn?

Also, just checking about Event cards, do events remain in play until another event is used, or do special moves or other cards cancel it as well?

Oh, another confusing thing I've found... Orx are always guards, with their downside being 5+ for skill checks but, as guards, don't they never use skill checks? Same as, goblins are 5+ on strength, but every situation that requires a strength check, a goblin could always 'dodge' instead. Doesn't this then mean that, mathematically, the Marauders are always the better team?

You can only stomp a guy on the ground-it's a foul as it's supposed to be unsporting. Can't answer your other question, as it hasn't come up and I don't have my book in front of me.

And I'm not sure if Orx are mathematically the better team, but they sure are the most FUN team!!

 Compel wrote:
Cheers for that, I've got a couple more questions about Fouls.

Is a Foul: Stomp just a slam on an opponent that's knocked down? Or can you stomp any time of a model that's in your threat hexes.

Stomp can only be done against a fallen model. It's worth knowing that Stomp is mentioned as being a type of slam only so that you know the dice modifiers that affect slam also affect stomp (so guards get +1 dice, Grizzled works against it etc). You cannot make a run as part of a Stomp foul (the stomper must start their action adjacent to the fallen player).

 Compel wrote:

Additionally, is a Foul: Stall just a run or a sprint etc, that you end up in the opponents yellow hex?

In which case, wouldn't it be smart to save that as the last action you do in a turn, resulting in there only being a single 'ref check' needed until your next turn?

A Stall foul is any action you perform whilst you have a player blocking that yellow hex that doesn't involve you moving off that hex so you no longer block it. Note that it doesn't matter why you ended up blocking that hex (e.g. your opponent could slam you back onto it but you'd be the one committing the foul) or even if the blocking player is actually fallen down, it is still a foul if you then declare any action that doesn't clear you off that hex and your opponent can call foul at the end of that action. And every action that the stall foul persists.

So yes, it makes sense to do it last if you are intending to stall but its also worth noting that if you then run interference in your opponents rush you have declared an action that didn't clear the stall foul and they can call foul again at the end of your RI action.

 Compel wrote:

Also, just checking about Event cards, do events remain in play until another event is used, or do special moves or other cards cancel it as well?

All events remain in play until another event replaces them with the single exception of the Ball Shatters event which is instantaneous and doesn't cancel any pre-existing event in play. Also, know that you cannot interrupt an action by playing an event card from your hand, the event takes effect once the current action and associated effects have been completed. I fell foul of this during a tournament game when one of my rats got stomped in front of an inattentive ref. I had a Vigilant Ref card in hand but because the Stomp action had already begun when I played the card it didn't take effect until the Stomp roll, my dodge roll, my armour saves, the declaration of Foul and the ref check had all completed. So he squished my rat and got away with it and the ref then became vigilant too late to help me out.

This one's particularly important as it means you cannot shatter the ball by playing the event card from your hand if your opponent is running and throwing a strike as a single action. They get to resolve the strike before the ball shatters. This is why it's also important that actions are declared before anyone starts moving so you know if a striker is going to run&throw, or run then have to throw from stationary as a second action (when you can shatter the ball between the run and the throw actions).

 Compel wrote:

Oh, another confusing thing I've found... Orx are always guards, with their downside being 5+ for skill checks but, as guards, don't they never use skill checks? Same as, goblins are 5+ on strength, but every situation that requires a strength check, a goblin could always 'dodge' instead. Doesn't this then mean that, mathematically, the Marauders are always the better team?

It's true that Orx don't use their nerf stat of skill (and perversely that FF strikers can't use their boosted stat of strength 3+) and that Goblins can always choose to dodge instead of slamming back but remember that the gobbos are meant to be Jacks so not being able to slam/slamback effectively is a serious drawback to them. The lack of any strikers in the marauder team is a big handicap to them as it forces you to burn actions to get into striking positions due to the Jack's limitations on being able to move&throw and the dice they lose on throw attempts for not being strikers. And buying cards to gain the extra actions needed to get a Jack into a high point scoring position is risky as you can't use any Striker only cards you draw. More than any other team the Marauders rely on a passing game to get decent scores.

Of course, many Marauder player just ignore the ball completely and concentrate on Orx turning the opponent's strikers into jam. Not a winning strategy, but fun.

Does anyone have a link to one of the introductory reference sheets?

Funnily enough, I was looking at that just this very second (literally, I'm printing it right now))

Demo Playsheet

 larva_uk wrote:

All events remain in play until another event replaces them with the single exception of the Ball Shatters event which is instantaneous and doesn't cancel any pre-existing event in play. Also, know that you cannot interrupt an action by playing an event card from your hand, the event takes effect once the current action and associated effects have been completed. I fell foul of this during a tournament game when one of my rats got stomped in front of an inattentive ref. I had a Vigilant Ref card in hand but because the Stomp action had already begun when I played the card it didn't take effect until the Stomp roll, my dodge roll, my armour saves, the declaration of Foul and the ref check had all completed. So he squished my rat and got away with it and the ref then became vigilant too late to help me out.

This one's particularly important as it means you cannot shatter the ball by playing the event card from your hand if your opponent is running and throwing a strike as a single action. They get to resolve the strike before the ball shatters. This is why it's also important that actions are declared before anyone starts moving so you know if a striker is going to run&throw, or run then have to throw from stationary as a second action (when you can shatter the ball between the run and the throw actions).

So how does this work? Does the opponent have to play the card before you declare your next action or can they do it after you declare 'oh, im going to throw to ball' but before you actually move the mini?

And what about for actions? Specifically running interference? I assume you can interrupt opponents with running interference?

 larva_uk wrote:

Of course, many Marauder player just ignore the ball completely and concentrate on Orx turning the opponent's strikers into jam. Not a winning strategy, but fun.

Like hell it's not a winning strategy! I've done it, and it was quite effective. When I finally start a league, I'm gonna be taking Orx and turning my opponents into paste. They can't gain experience if they're dead...killed 2 dwarves in a single game with Marauders. Mush em and squoosh em.

Sining wrote:

 larva_uk wrote:

All events remain in play until another event replaces them with the single exception of the Ball Shatters event which is instantaneous and doesn't cancel any pre-existing event in play. Also, know that you cannot interrupt an action by playing an event card from your hand, the event takes effect once the current action and associated effects have been completed. I fell foul of this during a tournament game when one of my rats got stomped in front of an inattentive ref. I had a Vigilant Ref card in hand but because the Stomp action had already begun when I played the card it didn't take effect until the Stomp roll, my dodge roll, my armour saves, the declaration of Foul and the ref check had all completed. So he squished my rat and got away with it and the ref then became vigilant too late to help me out.

This one's particularly important as it means you cannot shatter the ball by playing the event card from your hand if your opponent is running and throwing a strike as a single action. They get to resolve the strike before the ball shatters. This is why it's also important that actions are declared before anyone starts moving so you know if a striker is going to run&throw, or run then have to throw from stationary as a second action (when you can shatter the ball between the run and the throw actions).

So how does this work? Does the opponent have to play the card before you declare your next action or can they do it after you declare 'oh, im going to throw to ball' but before you actually move the mini?

And what about for actions? Specifically running interference? I assume you can interrupt opponents with running interference?

I've always played it as you can play the event card as long as they haven't moved the mini or picked up the dice (for a stationary action) but I don't know what the official ruling would be or even if there has been one. And yes, Running Interference can interrupt an opponents action (but not a dice sequence i.e. you cannot RI between someone rolling a pass throw and the catcher rolling his catch attempt but you can RI before he rolls the throw dice or after the catcher has made the catch).

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 larva_uk wrote:

Of course, many Marauder player just ignore the ball completely and concentrate on Orx turning the opponent's strikers into jam. Not a winning strategy, but fun.

Like hell it's not a winning strategy! I've done it, and it was quite effective. When I finally start a league, I'm gonna be taking Orx and turning my opponents into paste. They can't gain experience if they're dead...killed 2 dwarves in a single game with Marauders. Mush em and squoosh em.

Agreed. this can Very much be a winning strategy. The one thing that a buddy also implemented in his game plan was chukkin' the ball with a gobo right at an opposing player to end the turn. It puts the ball where you want it, and can be a useful offensive tool. Hitting someone from the back is particularly effective. It makes me think the Judawan might actually stand a chance by getting the opposing players guards off the pitch (unless they are dwarves or mauraders and just have a crap load wating in the wings to hit the pitch).

Bash tactics are really going to come into their own with 3 of the 4 new teams having 0-1 guards on their starting rosters.

The Judawan have a 'pacifist' rule that might prevent them doing that, but I haven't seen the Season 2 rules yet so cant say for sure.