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Made in us
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President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA

Hey everyone, I figured it would be a good idea to collect all the legitimate questions you find in the new Chaos Daemons codex together into one thread. so they can be sent to tournament organizers and/or GW for use in making their FAQs.

So if you see arguments/discussions about rules questions in other threads, then please post the pertinent question (along with any relevant rules information) into this this thread.

But most importantly: PLEASE DO NOT ACTUALLY DISCUSS/ARGUE THE RULES IN THIS THREAD. If you think a particular question has an easy answer that was missed by the person adding it into the thread, then posting about it ONCE is fine (and appreciated), but please do not engage in a back and forth discussion about a rule...start another thread on the topic if you need to do that.


Thanks!


I'll get the ball rolling with some of the questions I've seen posted in his forum so far:


-------


Army Special Rules
• Can Feel No Pain be used against wounds caused by Daemonic Instability?
• Is a Chaos Space Marine unit with the Daemon special rule and the suitable Mark of one of the 4 gods considered "Daemons of the same alignment" for the purpose of attaching Chaos Daemon Independent Characters? e.g, could a Herald of Slaanesh join a unit of Warp Talons with the Mark of Slaanesh?
• If 'Punished by the Gods' manages to kill a character that is riding on a Burning Chariot of Tzeentch or Seeker/Exalted Seeker Chariot of Slaanesh is the Chariot also removed? If not, can another Herald (with the appropriate dedication) now embark onto the rider-less chariot?
• Do you decide which type of unit is arriving via 'Summoned From the Warp' before or after rolling to see how many models are in the unit?
• Can any of the Warp Storm results that inflict hits (Rot, Glorious Rot, etc) cause damage to a zooming Flyer or swooping Monstrous Creature?
• When resolving the Warp Storm table results that attack every unengaged enemy unit, do you roll for enemy units that are embarked on vehicles or in enclosed buildings? If yes, how exactly do you resolve the results that involve placing a blast directly over one model in the affected unit?
• Does the 'Daemonic Possession' Warp Storm result affect enemy psykers that are currently embarked on vehicles or in enclosed buildings? If so, exactly where is the created Herald placed in these cases?
• Does the 'Daemonic Possession' Warp Storm result affect enemy psykers that are also swooping Monstrous Creatures?


Weapons, Wargear & Gifts
• If a model that has a Mutating Warpblade kills an enemy Character or Monstrous Creature with a ranged attack, does the 'Warp Mutation' rule still apply? Or is it only from combat attacks made using the Warpblade (like the Staff of Change)?
• For weapons that trigger an ability when the bearer kills a specific model (such as a Staff of Change or Mutating Warpblade), how do you determine who actually killed the enemy model if several different models are all striking at the same Initiative step when the enemy model is killed?
• If Necron Mindshackle Scarabs force a character a model with a Mutating Warpblade to kill himself, does the Warp Mutation special rule still trigger (as an enemy character has not technically been slain)?
• If Necron Mindshackle Scarabs force a model with Burning Blood to cause unsaved wounds on himself, who, if anyone do the D3 Burning Blood hits get applied onto?
• If a weapon inflicts Instant Death on a 'to wound' roll of 6 (like the Axe of Khorne, for example), does the attacking model still need to have the possibility of wounding the target in order to benefit from this ability? For example, say a S4 model is attacking a T8 opponent, does he still inflict Instant Death on rolls of '6'?
• What happens if the Doomstone lowers St. Celestine's Ld down to '0'? If she resurrects does she immediately die again because she still has a Ld of '0', or does she ignore the effects of the Doomstone when she returns?
• Can an Icon of Chaos be used to reduce (or eliminate) scatter on the same turn the unit arrives from reserve? In other words, if unit A Deep Strikes onto the table and in the same turn unit B Deep Strikes within 6" of unit A (and meets all the necessary criteria) does unit B benefit from unit A's Icon to reduce or eliminate their scatter?
• Do you roll to see if a Portalglyph creates a new unit at the end of the same Movement phase that it is placed?
• Do you declare which type of Daemons are being created by a Portalglyph before or after rolling the D6 to see how many models are in the arriving unit?
• How tall roughly should the Portalglyph have to be modeled?
• Does the Blade of Blood still grant the bearer 'Rampage' even if a different weapon is used to attack in that round of combat?
• If a Tzeentch Herald on a Chariot has the Warp Tether reward, and is killed in close combat when the Chariot is immobilized, what happens? Is the immobilize rule ignored the turn the Chariot arrives from reserve? Or does the Herald have to walk back onto the table off the Chariot? Or are both the Herald and the Chariot just stuck in Reserve for the rest of the game?
• When a model suffers an unsaved wound from a Witstealer Sword/Plague Flail and then suffers an additional unsaved wound from failing its Initiative/Toughness test (respectively), does the model then have to take a further Initiative/Toughness test, and so on? Or does each model only suffer a maximum of one 'bonus' wound this way for each 'standard' wound inflicted?
• If a model already has a 3+ armor save and rolls the 'Unbreakable Hide' Greater Reward, does this count as a duplicate result (meaning it must be re-rolled) or not?


Psychic Powers
• Is the Feel No Pain +1 bonus provided by Warpflame cumulative throughout the course of a game? For example, can a unit that starts the game with Feel No Pain (5+) have it improved up to (3+) after passing its Toughness test against Warpflame wounds in two separate shooting phases? If so, can a unit have its Feel No Pain improved to a (1+) and does this mean it automatically passes its Feel No Pain rolls?
• If a unit joined by Mad Dok Grotsnik (who has Dok's Tools that grants the unit Feel No Pain 5+) passes a toughness test for Warpflame, does their FNP improve to 4+? If Grotsnik later leaves the unit, does their FNP revert back to being a 6+, or does the unit lose FNP all together and Grotsnik keep the FNP 4+ to pass onto the next unit he joins?
• Does the +1 Strength bonus from the Exalted Locus of Conjuration apply to ancillary hits caused by their psychic powers, such as the bonus Soul Blaze hits or hits caused by a vehicle they manage to explode?
• What happens if a multi-wound model fails its Ld test for Pavane of Slaanesh or its Toughness test for Rancid Visitations, but is not slain (only suffers one wound or that wound is ignored due to Feel No Pain, etc)? Do you keep making further tests against the same model?
• What happens when a Cacophonic Choir 2D6-Ld roll results in a negative number?


HQ
• Are the Masque and the Blue Scribes really not supposed to be considered Heralds (for the purpose of taking up to 4 Heralds as a single HQ choice)?
• Is Fateweaver considered to be 1 or 2 psykers for things like the Culexus Assassin? If a special rule affects psykers does this affect Fateweaver twice (such as having to pass two Ld tests against a Crucible of Malediction that is activated within range, for example)?
• Does Fateweaver's Staff of Tomorrow allow him to re-roll a D6 that an opponent originally rolled?
• Can Fateweaver's Staff of Tomorrow be used to re-roll either the random game length roll or the Night Fighting rolls on turns 5+? If so, does it matter which player originally makes the roll (i.e. if the opponent happened to roll the random game length die, can it still be re-rolled)?
• When the Masque performs the Dance of Caging, should you roll a single D3 and apply that to all moves the target unit tries to make, or roll a separate D3 each time the unit tries to move?
• Should the Masque's Dance of Caging movement limitation apply to a Bike/Jetbike unit's Turbo-boost movement and/or the Thrust Move for a Jet Pak unit?


Troops
• When a unit of Pink Horrors is resolving a psychic shooting attack, does every model in the unit with the 'Brotherhood of Sorcerers' special rule count as firing a weapon? Or does the firing player pick one such model in the unit to count as 'firing' that psychic shooting attack (thereby allowing the possibility for an Iridescent Horror in the unit with a ranged attack via a Lessser/Greater Reward to use it at the same time the unit uses its psychic shooting attack)?


Elites
• Is the -1 Ld penalty for a Fiend's 'Disruptive Song' cumulative? If so, is this calculated per Fiend model or per unit? For example, if a psyker is within 12" of 4 Fiend models (all part of the same unit) would he have a -4 Ld penalty? Or if the psyker was within 12" of two Fiend units, would he have a -2 Ld penalty (regardless of how many Fiend models from each unit were within 12")?


Fast Attack
• Does a Screamer's Lamprey Bite replace all bonus attacks the model has as (such as the +1 attack for charging, for example), or just its base attacks?
• Are cover saves allowed from a Screamer's Slashing Attack and if so, is the determination of whether or not a model is in cover calculated from the final position of the Screamers similar to a shooting attack?


Heavy Support
• Does the Burning Chariot of Tzeentch really need to remain stationary to fire the Blue or Pink Fire of Tzeentch as non-snap shots (as they are a Heavy weapon and the Exalted Flamer is an embarked Infantry model)?


Misc
• (basic rulebook question) What happens in close combat if a model has an Initiative of 0 (as can happen due to a Fiend's 'Soporific Musk', for example)? Do they not make an Initiative Step Pile-in and not attack?
• (basic rulebook question) When a model has a characteristic lowered to 0 via modifiers, does it now automatically fail a characteristic test (on that characteristic), or does this rule only apply to models that naturally have a '0' or '-' characteristic (not including any modifiers)?
• (basic rulebook question) When a unit containing one or more psykers with randomly generated psychic powers is created mid-game (such as Pink Horrors via the 'Summoned From the Warp' special rule or from a Portalglyph) do you generate powers for the unit at that point during the game, or does the unit just not have any psychic powers?
• (basic rulebook question) When a unit containing one or more psykers is created mid-turn (such as Pink Horrors via the 'Summoned From the Warp' special rule or from a Portalglyph) do they immediately generate their warp charge, or do they have to wait for the start of the next turn to do so?






This message was edited 28 times. Last update was at 2013/03/12 04:06:29


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What happens when a model's Initiative would be modified to '0' or less (e.g, via the Fiends' Soporific Musk)?

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 Janthkin wrote:
What happens when a model's Initiative would be modified to '0' or less (e.g, via the Fiends' Soporific Musk)?


I'm assuming that is a question for close combat specifically? Because Characteristic tests (at least) say that they fail if the model has a '0' value. And the basic characteristic rules don't allow characteristics below 0, so I don't think that is a question.

But being in combat with an Initiative of 0 is definitely a good one, I think.




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Fixture of Dakka






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 yakface wrote:
 Janthkin wrote:
What happens when a model's Initiative would be modified to '0' or less (e.g, via the Fiends' Soporific Musk)?


I'm assuming that is a question for close combat specifically? Because Characteristic tests (at least) say that they fail if the model has a '0' value. And the basic characteristic rules don't allow characteristics below 0, so I don't think that is a question.

But being in combat with an Initiative of 0 is definitely a good one, I think.
See also the Witstealer sword, which forces Init tests to avoid bonus wounds.

Another fun artifact: the combat rules only allow for fighting between I10 and I1 (p.22); if you can get reduced to I0, I don't think you get to fight.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/03/05 01:18:27


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 Janthkin wrote:
See also the Witstealer sword, which forces Init tests to avoid bonus wounds.

Another fun artifact: the combat rules only allow for fighting between I10 and I1 (p.22); if you can get reduced to I0, I don't think you get to fight.


Agreed about combat for sure. I added that to the first post collection.

I think the characteristic test question is covered on pg 7 of the rulebook though (it says 0 characteristics auto-fail characteristic tests).


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yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
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When the Masque performs the Dance of Caging, should you roll a single D3 and apply that to all moves the target unit tries to make, or roll a separate D3 each time the unit tries to move?

Is it intended that Bikes/Jetbikes can turbo-boost at full speed while affected by the Masque's Dance of Caging?

Is a Chaos Space Marine unit with the Daemon special rule and the suitable Mark of one of the 4 gods considered "Daemons of the same alignment" for the purpose of attaching Chaos Daemon Independent Characters? e.g, could a Herald of Slaanesh join a unit of Warp Talons with the Mark of Slaanesh?

If a character with a Mutating Warpblade is affected by a Necron model's Mind Shackle Scarabs and slays itself can it transform into a Chaos Spawn?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/05 01:33:15


Interceptor Drones can disembark at any point during the Sun Shark's move (even though models cannot normally disembark from Zooming Flyers).


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 Drunkspleen wrote:

If a character with a Mutating Warpblade is affected by a Necron model's Mind Shackle Scarabs and slays itself can it transform into a Chaos Spawn?


Great questions overall!

Can I ask why this one is even debatable (can you give me more info on why anyone would think it wouldn't work)?


I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
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yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
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Dimmamar (or Denver)

Clarification underlined, just in case:

 yakface wrote:
• Does the Burning Chariot of Tzeentch really need to remain stationary to fire the Blue or Pink Fire of Tzeentch as non-snap shots (since the weapons are carried by an Infantry model, and they are a Heavy weapon)?

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 yakface wrote:
 Drunkspleen wrote:

If a character with a Mutating Warpblade is affected by a Necron model's Mind Shackle Scarabs and slays itself can it transform into a Chaos Spawn?


Great questions overall!

Can I ask why this one is even debatable (can you give me more info on why anyone would think it wouldn't work)?



The issue at hand is the weapon says "If the bearer slays an enemy Character..." I feel the way it's written does give a clear way to resolve it given he is not actually an enemy model, however I also feel it's possible that the intention is for us to treat friendly units as enemies when striking with MSS or utilizing associated special rules.

I can't think of any other weapon attached special rules that specify that they only apply to enemies in this way, and as such I think it's the first time the situation has been encountered, although I could be wrong.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/05 02:26:54


Interceptor Drones can disembark at any point during the Sun Shark's move (even though models cannot normally disembark from Zooming Flyers).


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Made in us
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 Drunkspleen wrote:

The issue at hand is the weapon says "If the bearer slays an enemy Character..." I feel the way it's written does give a clear way to resolve it given he is not actually an enemy model, however I also feel it's possible that the intention is for us to treat friendly units as enemies when striking with MSS or utilizing associated special rules.

I can't think of any other weapon attached special rules that specify that they only apply to enemies in this way, and as such I think it's the first time the situation has been encountered, although I could be wrong.


Yep, that makes sense to me now. It also doesn't apply to Staff of Change either (as I thought it would) as that one doesn't mention 'enemy' in its rule.



I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
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Sioux Falls, SD

The one that some people have been contesting - that Banners that allow a unit deepstriking within 6" of it to not have to scatter...it does not specifically state if the banner can come in the same turn it is used (DS a unit with the Banner, roll scatter, place - and then place all other similar god units within six that came in this turn from reserves)...this has lead to some interesting arguments.

As for the FnP from the ability - it states that it increases FnP by +1 if the unit already has the rule - it does not designate otherwise. I never thought about it becomming 1+


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What happens if you roll for a 3+ save as a greater gift on a model that already has a 3+ save?

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Are Deamons Heralds limited to 1 per HQ when taken has allies by CSM?

Or can be taken up to 4 Per Primary Detachment( because it doesn't say that it is a Deamon Primary detachment).

   
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If a bloodthirster is carrying the blade of blood does he get rampage even if he attacks with another weapon? blade of blood says: "The bearer of the blade gains rampager(+D3 attacks)" it doesn't actually specify you need to attack with it.

Can Plague flies nominate their hammer of wrath attack to be their instakill attack with the venom stinger upgrade? Also do hammer of wrath attacks benefit from poisoned weapons?

What is the vertical profile of the Portaglyph? The same as a 3" blast template?

   
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 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Are Deamons Heralds limited to 1 per HQ when taken has allies by CSM?

Or can be taken up to 4 Per Primary Detachment( because it doesn't say that it is a Deamon Primary detachment).


So you're literally asking if you can take Heralds as part of your primary detachment when your primary detachment is chosen from a codex that is not the Daemons codex?

No offense intended, but that is pretty much a complete nonsense question.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/05 03:41:06


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yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
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(along the same lines of my earlier Mutating Warpblade question, "Burning Blood: Whenever the Daemon suffers an unsaved Wound in close combat, the enemy unit that caused the Wound...")
If a model is forced to attack a friendly unit with the Burning Blood Daemonic Reward and inflicts a wound does the attacking model suffer the retaliatory hits?

Can Cleaving Strike attacks benefit from strength bonuses on weapons, or do you just use twice the Daemon's Strength characteristic to resolve them without further modifiers?

A number of rules have the potential to spawn new Pink Horror units. Can such units generate a psychic power when they are created despite the fact generating psychic powers is normally done prior to deployment?

What happens to a unit of Daemons created through a Portalglyph if they cannot disembark due to impassable terrain and/or enemy models surrounding the marker?

edit: Removing the Icon question since it's already covered

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/05 03:32:20


Interceptor Drones can disembark at any point during the Sun Shark's move (even though models cannot normally disembark from Zooming Flyers).


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 yakface wrote:
 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Are Deamons Heralds limited to 1 per HQ when taken has allies by CSM?

Or can be taken up to 4 Per Primary Detachment( because it doesn't say that it is a Deamon Primary detachment).


So you're literally asking if you can take Heralds as part of your primary detachment when your primary detachment is chosen from codex that is not the Daemons codex?

No offense intended, but that is pretty much a complete nonsense question.



That is not what he is asking - this is actually in YMDC - I can't find the list. Yes - this needs an FAQ to be ABSOLUTELY postive-

What he is wanting to know is: How many Heralds can you take in the allied HQ slot when you take Chaos Deamons as allies.

General understanding is 1 per slot as allies, 4 as a single choice, but you can only take 4 heralds max (stil need offical FAQ)

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Can horrors or any demon use both codex and BRB powers at the same time. For instant a mastery level 3 herald switch out one power for prescience and keep the codex ones as well?
   
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 Centurian99 wrote:
What happens if you roll for a 3+ save as a greater gift on a model that already has a 3+ save?


To be more specific: What happens if you roll "unbreakable hide" on a model that already has a 3+ save, through Warp Forged Armor.

P66 - "Each reward . . . can only be taken once per model (even if the reward is included in the model's army list entry)."
P66 - "Unbreakable Hide: The Daemon has an armour save of 3+."
P63 - "Warp-Forged Armour - This grants an armour save of 3+."





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chewielight wrote:
Can horrors or any demon use both codex and BRB powers at the same time. For instant a mastery level 3 herald switch out one power for prescience and keep the codex ones as well?


Yes, C:CD psykers may take up to half (rounded up) from the codex. The rest come from BRB as described (prescience for Tzeentch Herald, etc.)

   
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chewielight wrote:
Can horrors or any demon use both codex and BRB powers at the same time. For instant a mastery level 3 herald switch out one power for prescience and keep the codex ones as well?


They must be able to, in the Daemons codex it clearly says that only "up to half" of a models powers can come from the god specific disciplines.

also, the core rules tell you "Note that second and subsequent psychic powers do not have to be generated from the same psychic discipline as the Psyker's first power."

Interceptor Drones can disembark at any point during the Sun Shark's move (even though models cannot normally disembark from Zooming Flyers).


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 Amaraxis wrote:

That is not what he is asking - this is actually in YMDC - I can't find the list. Yes - this needs an FAQ to be ABSOLUTELY postive-

What he is wanting to know is: How many Heralds can you take in the allied HQ slot when you take Chaos Deamons as allies.

General understanding is 1 per slot as allies, 4 as a single choice, but you can only take 4 heralds max (stil need offical FAQ)


I don't want to turn this into a discussion, so I won't be answering any reply you give on the subject, but that *IS* what he is saying.

The codex is explicit that the 4 Heralds per HQ choice is for your Primary Detachment only. So if Daemons are taken as an allied detachment there is no logical way that an allied HQ slot can contain more than a single Herald.

Therefore, the only possible argument (the one he is making) is that since the Daemon codex doesn't specify in that rule that the 4-for-1 rule applies only to Primary Detachments taken from Chaos Daemons, then by the RAW you're allowed to take 4-for-1 Heralds as part of your Primary detachment...so taking Imperial Guard as your primary detachment, for example, and then using one of those two HQ choices to take up to 4 Heralds...so the Heralds are literally part of your Primary IG Detachment.

It is frankly an absurd question that ignores quite a few of the basic structural mechanisms of constructing an army. There is literally no way that a tournament organizer would ever even consider this answering this question any other way than the way the rules plainly state, so it is pointless to add as a question to a FAQ.


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yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
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Longtime Dakkanaut





You know I have never really thought about this before because Daemons weren't psykers before and the only other Army that had chariots were Necrons.

If a Herald on a Chariot casts a Nova or Beam shooting attack is the distanced measured from the base of the chariot like other area of effect rules, i.e. banners and invul bubbles?

Normally shooting attacks are measured from the weapon but in this case the pkykers is the weapon but on a chariot.
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut





United Kingdom

From a game I played against them the other day.

The roll on the Warp Storm chart that causes the (don't know the real name) thing that is a lot like the stormlords lightning thing(?), how does this interact with flyers and FMC's?

Note. Someone more involved in the inner workings of the rules probably has a simple answer for this one, also if anyone wishes to edit my question with the actual names of the rules, and word it better once the rules names are in place, feel free to do so, so as that if it does require FAQing, it can just be copy and pasted.

   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut




40k-noob wrote:
You know I have never really thought about this before because Daemons weren't psykers before and the only other Army that had chariots were Necrons.

If a Herald on a Chariot casts a Nova or Beam shooting attack is the distanced measured from the base of the chariot like other area of effect rules, i.e. banners and invul bubbles?

Normally shooting attacks are measured from the weapon but in this case the pkykers is the weapon but on a chariot.


Passenger weapons are measured from the firepoint, which for an open topped vehicle is anywhere on the hull. So you'd measure from somewhere on the hull. Fun times now is defining where the hull is.
   
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Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

Hull is clearly defined in the rulebook.

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[MOD]
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

 Mannahnin wrote:
Hull is clearly defined in the rulebook.
Yeah, but chariots are rough. Is the creature pulling the chariot part of the hull? If not, it's not valid to shoot at it, either.

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut




Are the Screamers pulling the chariot hull? I can't actually check what the definition of hull is at the moment, but when it's put like that it starts looking like a stretch.
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut





United Kingdom

Also,

Does an Aegis Defense Line grant a cover save to the SoulGrinder

   
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Blood Angel Chapter Master with Wings





Chicago, IL

Eldercaveman wrote:
Also,

Does an Aegis Defense Line grant a cover save to the SoulGrinder

How long is a piece of string?

This, like your question is impossible to answer correctly without seeing the situation.

If the SoulGrinder is 25% or more obscured by the ADL then it gets a cover save, if it is not 25% or more obscured by the ADL then it does not get a cover save.

Check if any of the firing models can not see 75.01% of it, if they can not then it will get a cover save, just like any other model.

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