Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2018/02/17 17:10:23
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Kharne the Befriender wrote: Maybe if they gave Gauss the same rule that the new Tzaangors have it would be better? Y'know, the auto wound on hit rolls of 6+?
It wouldn't change the base stat line of the gun, but it would allow it to be more effective against larger targets and, more importantly, vehicles.
That's simply my opinion though.
That's not a bad option, just to set everyone's expectation on the math, under old gauss 1 in 18 shots would get a glance, so for most vehicles it took 54 flayer shots to kill the average 3 HP vehicle. Since they very intentionally made vehicles tougher in this edition, let's set a target at 81 flayer shots to kill a LRBT.
Assuming they don't change the -1 to ap,
Tzangor method
(1/2 * 1/6 * 1/2) + (1/6 * 1/2) = 1/8
So 8 shots to a wound, 12 wounds so 96 shots to kill a lrbt. Not too shabby, pretty close to on target for our admittedly arbitrary goal.
the six to wound is damage value +1
(2/3 * 1/6 * 1/2) * 2 = 1/9
so 9 shots to a wound, 12 wounds so 108 shots to kill an LRBT, a little higher than we would like.
AP -4 on 6's to hit
(1/2 * 1/6 * 1/2) + (1/6 * 1/6) = 5/72
so 14 shots to a wound, 12 wounds so 168 shots to kill a lrbt, better than now but not by much.
6s to hit cause a mortal wound
(1/2 * 1/6 * 1/2) + (1/6) = 5/24
So 4.8 shots to the wound, 12 wounds so 57 shots to kill an LRBT, probably a little to effective, as we'd drop vehicles like we did in 7th ed. Has an added bonus of being good against invul saves, which is probably a deal breaker.
6s to wound cause a mortal wound
(2/3 * 1/6) = 1/9
so 9 shots to a wound, 12 wounds so 108 shots to kill an LRBT. Has an added bonus of being good against invul saves, which is probably a deal breaker.
So to get a little nudge on the tzangor solution to get it where we need it to be, how about 6's to hit cause an auto wound in addition to it's normal effects.
(2/3 * 1/6 * 1/2) + (1/6 * 1/2) = 5/36
so a little over 7 shots to a wound. 12 wounds on a LRBT so 84 shots to kill an LRBT. With a stated goal of 81 I think we are in the butter zone. We won't punk vehicles like we did in 7th ed, but we won't be completely reliant on our heavier weapons either.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2018/02/18 05:25:44
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
sieGermans wrote: I mean, I know we don’t have any other stuff to discuss at the moment, but let’s chill with the pitchforks against a guy who brought up a fun casual tactic from a prior edition.
Nobody here cares about what you do in a casual setting. This is the Tactics section.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2018/02/18 21:13:45
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
My only concern with the tzangor method is if it also out performs Tesla at horde or light infantry removal. Don't have time to do the math right now, but the two are fairly close as it is.
11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
2018/02/19 00:13:25
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I got a question regarding the rules for reinforcement and the C'tan shard of the Deceiver's Grand Illusion ability:
When you use Grand Illusion, the ability states that you remove D3 + the C'tan from the battlefield and then place them down again, more than 12" away from an enemy unit. This is done before the first turn begins (but more importantly, before the movement phase.)
But, the rules for Reinforcement say that a unit that arrives from reinforcement cannot move in that movement phase. Which makes sense if it happens at the end of the movement phase.
However, does this mean that units that 're-deploy' through the Grand Illusion ability cannot move anymore, despite it being at the start of your movement phase? (assuming you got first turn)
And, if this is true, than I assume this also counts as them having moved for the sake of Heavy weapons?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/19 00:20:46
2018/02/19 00:23:17
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
You can move after using GI, the ability just says you can't charge, because... feth Necrons I guess. I'd be less bitter if the alpha legion did not get the same ability, with the options to use it for up to half their army, and could charge in the first turn.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2018/02/19 00:27:58
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Grimgold wrote: You can move after using GI, the ability just says you can't charge, because... feth Necrons I guess. I'd be less bitter if the alpha legion did not get the same ability, with the options to use it for up to half their army, and could charge in the first turn.
I understand that they cannot charge. But after the reading the rules for Reinforcement, it wonder if they can even move. Grand Illusion says that the unit is removed from the table and then deployed again. Since the unit isn't deployed in a normal way, does it count as reinforcement (and thus it can't move?)
Here's the rules for Reinforcment and Grand Illusion for quick reference:
Reinforcements
Typically, this happens at the end of the Movement phase, but it can also happen during other phases.
Units that are set up in this manner cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive – their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield – but they can otherwise act normally (shoot, charge, etc.) for the
rest of their turn.
Grand Illusion
At the beginning of the first battle round, but before the first turn begins, you can remove the C'tan Shard of the Deceiver and/or up to D3 other friendly NECRON units from the battlefield, then set them up again more than 12" from any enemy models. If you do so, these units cannot charge in your first turn.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/02/19 00:33:51
2018/02/19 00:53:22
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
The Deceiver and Alpha Legion deployments are slightly different, but they're the same in the way that they happen before the first turn begins; units that come in by reinforcements can't move or advance the turn they arrive, but turn 1 is after their arrival time so they can move as normal (with the exception of the specific banning on charging, which will hopefully be removed for parity's sake in the codex...).
2018/02/20 14:19:41
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I did some math regarding advancing MWBD Tesla Immortals, to see if getting them all in range is worth more than not having every model fire, but keeping the Tesla on a 5+:
Advancing to get all models in range
20 shots on 3+, 6+ Tesla= +- 20 hits
moving, 5 models aren't in range
10 shots on 2+, 5+ Tesla= +- 18 hits
Conclusion: if 5 or more models are out of range, it might be better to advance, despite it leading to a worse Tesla roll.
Feel free to correct me if my maths are off!
2018/02/20 16:05:18
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Warhammer Community has teased the big releases of March and in 40k it's Codex: T'au (White Dwarf says March 17). So it looks like Necrons will most likely come out later than March. I'm not even going to speculate on dates anymore.
2018/02/27 13:25:48
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / Nothing more to discuss until leaks
All we can do is wait until they are ready to announce our stuff. However "waiting" is the issue.
I'm currently keeping myself busy by striping old models and stuff I got 2nd hand so I can re-paint my armies for Sautekh, Nihilakh and the other Dynasties mentioned in our Index. I have about 14,000pt of Necrons (so far) and will split 4000pts for each Nihilakh and Sautekh Dynasties while the remaining 6000pts will be shared across the other Dynasties that we have and can use.
I keep checking this thread everyday in the hopes that someone found some information somewhere or some leaks I don't know about :(. Waiting is annoying!
Will there be a new thread for the new codex?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/02 18:00:28
- Power corrupts, Absolute power.... is a whole lot of fun...-
2018/03/02 18:16:16
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / Nothing more to discuss until leaks
Doctoralex wrote: They also mentioned on facebook that they haven't announced everything that is coming in march yet.
I'd be so annoyed if we got bumped again,
To be fair I think the only thing they ever officially announced regarding the necron codex was when they said that all the old codexes would be finished by the end of the year. Everything else (like the fact that we didn't get any points adjustment in chapter approved) was just wild speculation.
To those that say there is no stupid questions I say, "Is this a stupid question?"
2018/03/02 18:18:48
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / Nothing more to discuss until leaks
Doctoralex wrote: They also mentioned on facebook that they haven't announced everything that is coming in march yet.
I'd be so annoyed if we got bumped again,
To be fair I think the only thing they ever officially announced regarding the necron codex was when they said that all the old codexes would be finished by the end of the year. Everything else (like the fact that we didn't get any points adjustment in chapter approved) was just wild speculation.
At the LVO they told us the next three codices. Necrons, Tau, and dark eldar.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/02 18:21:07
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2018/03/02 20:13:05
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / Nothing more to discuss until leaks
Doctoralex wrote: They also mentioned on facebook that they haven't announced everything that is coming in march yet.
I'd be so annoyed if we got bumped again,
To be fair I think the only thing they ever officially announced regarding the necron codex was when they said that all the old codexes would be finished by the end of the year. Everything else (like the fact that we didn't get any points adjustment in chapter approved) was just wild speculation.
At the LVO they told us the next three codices. Necrons, Tau, and dark eldar.
My mistake, you are correct, but they didn't exactly give us an exact order. We might have assumed that Necrons would be the first because they the in the worst shape, but its still possible that Dark Eldar are next after Tau, and provided that they don't release an Ork or Sisters codex prior to the Necron codex, we really haven't been bumped (at least not officially).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/02 20:13:47
To those that say there is no stupid questions I say, "Is this a stupid question?"
2018/03/02 20:28:51
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / Nothing more to discuss until leaks
*checks hoping to hear news or leaks before going back to work*
It's March! Necron news??!?!?! nope
Next week will be previews for the Tau codex. Week after that might be Necrons, or Drukhari, or neither. I think the absolute latest our codex will be released is April.
2018/03/03 01:37:10
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / Nothing more to discuss until leaks
Pre order for tau is the 10th, so preorders for whichever codex will be next will be the 24th. We should know which codex that is this sunday at the latest. I expect it to be necrons, but hope is the first step on the path to disappointment.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2018/03/03 02:46:53
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / Nothing more to discuss until leaks
Grimgold wrote: Pre order for tau is the 10th, so preorders for whichever codex will be next will be the 24th. We should know which codex that is this sunday at the latest. I expect it to be necrons, but hope is the first step on the path to disappointment.
No. This Sunday will be the announcement of the preorders for the 10th. Then on the 11th we find out the preorders for the 17th. We won't find out what goes on preorder for the 24th until the 18th (two weeks from this Sunday).
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2018/03/03 04:50:45
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / Nothing more to discuss until leaks
So when it is released, how quickly can one get a hold of one? I live in sweden so I'm not sure my gw store will get them in stock on release day. Will they be available online?
2018/03/03 06:24:12
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / Nothing more to discuss until leaks
epaemil wrote: So when it is released, how quickly can one get a hold of one? I live in sweden so I'm not sure my gw store will get them in stock on release day. Will they be available online?
I am quite sure, there will be an eBook/tablet version, like for everyone else. You can see it on the GW homepage and will be linked to warhammer digital.
24.000 Tyranids painted, still rising in numbers
4.000 Genestealer Cult