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Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

 Matt Swain wrote:


Before anyone says "But its just for the duration of the crisis!!!" I'll point out it's been 19 years since 911 and we still have the patriot act, FISA, gitmo, etc. Once the system gets a new power it never lets go of it.



I am glad you pointed out that these actual erosions of our rights are still in force and on the books. Yet, more people went out and protest wearing a mask as totalitarianism then have protested actual surveillance state policies.

i am sure there is an appropriate meme or gif to apply here.... but all I got for it today is this.....



Do you like Free Wargames?
http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in gb
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader





London, England

 Matt Swain wrote:
One thing I see is a few stores just a few, for now, declaring a no cash policy.

Ok, I'm sure it's "policy", I'm sure they have "reasons" for it, and that's all fine. I wont shop at them.

I use a card often, by choice. If they try to make it mandatory, forget it.In a cashless society you can't buy a stick of gum without leaving a record and i just don't want 'the system' to have that kind of big brother omniscience.

Before anyone says "But its just for the duration of the crisis!!!" I'll point out it's been 19 years since 911 and we still have the patriot act, FISA, gitmo, etc. Once the system gets a new power it never lets go of it.


Not taking cash is to reduce contact between you and the member of staff, no inverted commas needed. It's a policy with good reason for it. No government is going to need to make cashless payment mandatory, it'll be the stores who will slowly begin to phase out cash payments for their convenience. There will come a time, probably in our lifetimes when you'll have to go out of your way to find somewhere that takes cash. At the moment though, it is just part of the distancing, keeping people from touching too many things that others have touched.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

Shops were already pushing cashless transcations as were the banks. All those branches closing; all those cash machines getting overused because there's fewer and fewer around. All the safety measures. Heck online trading alone accounts for a huge shift.


I agree we will reach a time where cash is generally only used as a "novelty" at markets, bring and buy etc.... Even many of them I can see adapting in time. When everyone has a phone with tehir paypal wired to it they can effortlessly (even today) simply pay someone via an email address at a stall provided they've reception for the net.

   
Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






In the U.K. at least, there are also pretty solid protections to be had from using card over cash.

If someone bonks me on the head, and lifts £50 out my wallet? It’s gone.

If someone bonks me on the head, lifts my debit card and then spends using Contactless? I get my money back - provided I can reasonably demonstrate I was bonked on the head (Police Reports are useful here, and you can bet I’d be getting the Police involved if such a thing happened)

I could harp on for hours and hours about this, as it’s my literal bread and butter!

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives?Why not join us?

 
   
Made in gb
Castellan of Dol Guldur





Bodt

 Easy E wrote:
 Matt Swain wrote:


Before anyone says "But its just for the duration of the crisis!!!" I'll point out it's been 19 years since 911 and we still have the patriot act, FISA, gitmo, etc. Once the system gets a new power it never lets go of it.



I am glad you pointed out that these actual erosions of our rights are still in force and on the books. Yet, more people went out and protest wearing a mask as totalitarianism then have protested actual surveillance state policies.

i am sure there is an appropriate meme or gif to apply here.... but all I got for it today is this.....




Go back about 100 pages, everyone laughed at my concerns of over policing and creeping authoritarianism.

Heresy World Eaters/Night Lords Genestealer cults.

Instagram: nagrakali_love_songs 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in southern England.

Ironically, at the start of the crisis I withdrew £250 in cash.It's still in my wallet unspent. It doesn't help that most British banknotes are plastic, which is one of the best surfaces for the virus to survive on. Up to three days, some of the science says.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Kilkrazy wrote:
For instance, the death rate caused by lung disease due to traffic pollution must have declined. That's potential guidance for planning future transportation.


Well, that death type specifically probably not. Lung disease caused by traffic pollution is kind of a long term thing. Letting up the pollution for a couple months would have a minuscule effect on the death rate. If someone with pollution based lung disease was going to die last month, their condition would probably have been extremely critical for at least the last year. Not to mention having a lung disease puts you in the Coronavirus risk category anyway.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In the U.K. at least, there are also pretty solid protections to be had from using card over cash.



I remember my early internet purchases were all done on a credit card because it was the only way to get "proper internet protection." Fastforward to today and most debit cards have similar levels of online protection. Plus there's paypal who offer their own protections. If anything the system, UK side at least, favours the customer quite considerably. The greater threats are really people who buy from obviously dodgy websites or when a website gets bank detail stolen from them. Though, of course, banks are well setup to protect against such measures.

Government doesn't need to outlaw money; convenience and safety and the market will push money out of general use and into cash-in-hand market sectors only.

Of course this also means that banks become even more heavily reliant on government bailouts should they falter. Perhaps even moving toward a government that might have to consider being able to freeze a specific banks UK held accounts and then having the government honour the money if the bank falls under. Since with digital money if your bank starts to die or dies you can't really have savings held in a mattress.



The hardest hit will be charities who rely heavily on those spare change boxes. Though I'm sure they will find new ways to adapt to the market (even things like Humble Bundle come to mind as means that charities can tap into all the more to help generate income for themselves.

   
Made in gb
[MOD]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury



Little surprised anyone uses cash TBH, I go months without using generally.

Don't be surprised if things like public transport stay entirely cashless -- think most of London already is IIRC.





Be warned that text messages like this one are already in circulation as the track & trace service launches. They are not genuine and anyone going to that website link will be asked to submit personal information that will then be used by fraudsters.






The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
Arendt wrote about megalomaniacal leaders eager to believe that all failures can be denied or erased, and “mad enough to discard all limited and local interests—economic, national, human, military—in favor of a purely fictitious reality
 
   
Made in gb
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






My area is quite backwards with regards to cashless, things. It can hinder you a lot tbh.
   
Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
 Matt Swain wrote:


Before anyone says "But its just for the duration of the crisis!!!" I'll point out it's been 19 years since 911 and we still have the patriot act, FISA, gitmo, etc. Once the system gets a new power it never lets go of it.



I am glad you pointed out that these actual erosions of our rights are still in force and on the books. Yet, more people went out and protest wearing a mask as totalitarianism then have protested actual surveillance state policies.

i am sure there is an appropriate meme or gif to apply here.... but all I got for it today is this.....



Go back about 100 pages, everyone laughed at my concerns of over policing and creeping authoritarianism.



I think you missed my point.

The big civil liberty erosions happened circa 2001 and no one is doing anything about it now to roll them back. But now they are suddenly concerned about civil liberties!

I am not sure I can appropriately convey what I am getting at.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/29 15:57:46


Do you like Free Wargames?
http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in southern England.

In London you can use any contactless card to ping in and out of busses and tubes.

You can still use an Oyster card and charge it at a machine which accepts cash.

I expect you can pay cash if you actually go to the ticket booth, and want to buy a paper ticket.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/29 16:04:15


I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
Castellan of Dol Guldur





Bodt

My old man only uses cash. It's something I try to do but it's difficult now.

Heresy World Eaters/Night Lords Genestealer cults.

Instagram: nagrakali_love_songs 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in southern England.

 Grey Templar wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
For instance, the death rate caused by lung disease due to traffic pollution must have declined. That's potential guidance for planning future transportation.


Well, that death type specifically probably not. Lung disease caused by traffic pollution is kind of a long term thing. Letting up the pollution for a couple months would have a minuscule effect on the death rate. If someone with pollution based lung disease was going to die last month, their condition would probably have been extremely critical for at least the last year. Not to mention having a lung disease puts you in the Coronavirus risk category anyway.


Yes, you're right. It was a bad example to pick. Something like the decline in road traffic deaths would have been a better one.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
Bryan Ansell





Birmingham, UK

I mean...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52849560

A pilot flew from Surrey to Anglesey on the Spring Bank Holiday "to go to the beach", a report has revealed.

The man flew from Fairoaks Airport to RAF Valley, a military base near the Welsh coast, on 25 May.

It was closed for maintenance work and security staff believed he had made an emergency landing.

However, he told them "he had flown from London to go to the beach", according to details in a Defence Aviation Safety Occurrence Report.

When told about lockdown and coronavirus restrictions in Wales, he is reported to have told them "it was okay, because he had [the virus] two months ago".


The report lists events involving planes and said the aircraft called the control tower at 12:50 then landed on runway 19 and parked adjacent to the beach.

"The fire section noted the aircraft and responded, thinking the aircraft was in distress. The pilot informed the crew manager he had flown from London to go to the beach."

He told them he found the airfield on Google Earth and decided to land there as Wikipedia said it served civilian traffic. He left shortly after landing.

An RAF spokesman said: "The RAF can confirm that on 25 May a civilian PC-12 aircraft landed on a closed runway at RAF Valley without permission.

"Whilst irregular, it was assessed that there was no threat to station personnel or the wider public. The incident has been reported to the Civil Aviation Authority."

The Ministry of Defence said while civilian aircraft are allowed at its sites, 24 hours notice is required to make sure this does not impact on military activity.

But because it was closed, there was no "immediate danger" to RAF aircraft.


Proof you don't need to be bright to be able to fly a plane. Or the pilot is probably an entitled jerk who has no understanding of the real world.
   
Made in ao
Wolf Guard Bodyguard in Terminator Armor




 reds8n wrote:


Little surprised anyone uses cash TBH, I go months without using generally.



A topic worthy of its own thread, certainly?
As I rarely go without cash.
Not only do I think it's much more convenient for small transactions, I also travel a lot, and don't always have instant connection to the internet when I arrive somewhere and simply need cash in order to pay for anything. Never mind when I'm working offshore and want get something from the bond store onboard.

It also helps my wife and I to budget much more effectively, as with electronic payment it's much too easy to spend more than you intend to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kilkrazy wrote:


Yes, you're right. It was a bad example to pick. Something like the decline in road traffic deaths would have been a better one.


Funny you should say that. I read an article the other day that said that road accident deaths had not gone down during the corona lockdown in the Netherlands despite there being significantly less traffic on the roads.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/29 19:21:54


 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 Easy E wrote:
 Matt Swain wrote:


Before anyone says "But its just for the duration of the crisis!!!" I'll point out it's been 19 years since 911 and we still have the patriot act, FISA, gitmo, etc. Once the system gets a new power it never lets go of it.



I am glad you pointed out that these actual erosions of our rights are still in force and on the books. Yet, more people went out and protest wearing a mask as totalitarianism then have protested actual surveillance state policies.

i am sure there is an appropriate meme or gif to apply here.... but all I got for it today is this.....


I can see why someone would draw that comparison, but examining it further quickly makes it apparent that those instances and what we are dealing with now are completely different.

Consider; Games Workshop rules not so much games but as toolboxes for players to craft an experience from, and open/narrative/matched play just examples of how things can be put together. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Bran Dawri wrote:
 reds8n wrote:


Little surprised anyone uses cash TBH, I go months without using generally.



A topic worthy of its own thread, certainly?
As I rarely go without cash.
Not only do I think it's much more convenient for small transactions, I also travel a lot, and don't always have instant connection to the internet when I arrive somewhere and simply need cash in order to pay for anything. Never mind when I'm working offshore and want get something from the bond store onboard.

It also helps my wife and I to budget much more effectively, as with electronic payment it's much too easy to spend more than you intend to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kilkrazy wrote:


Yes, you're right. It was a bad example to pick. Something like the decline in road traffic deaths would have been a better one.


Funny you should say that. I read an article the other day that said that road accident deaths had not gone down during the corona lockdown in the Netherlands despite there being significantly less traffic on the roads.


Cops in several UK regions reporting the same today. Essentially saying that people finding themselves on quiet roads have been driving like clowns and many have crashed.
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in southern England.

That in itself is a worthwhile insight.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Matt Swain wrote:
Before anyone says "But its just for the duration of the crisis!!!" I'll point out it's been 19 years since 911 and we still have the patriot act, FISA, gitmo, etc. Once the system gets a new power it never lets go of it.


I'm not disagreeing with the basic premise of what you are saying, but the nitpicker in me simply could not resist pointing out FISA way predates 9/11 - it was passed in 1978.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




nfe wrote:
Bran Dawri wrote:
 reds8n wrote:


Little surprised anyone uses cash TBH, I go months without using generally.



A topic worthy of its own thread, certainly?
As I rarely go without cash.
Not only do I think it's much more convenient for small transactions, I also travel a lot, and don't always have instant connection to the internet when I arrive somewhere and simply need cash in order to pay for anything. Never mind when I'm working offshore and want get something from the bond store onboard.

It also helps my wife and I to budget much more effectively, as with electronic payment it's much too easy to spend more than you intend to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kilkrazy wrote:


Yes, you're right. It was a bad example to pick. Something like the decline in road traffic deaths would have been a better one.


Funny you should say that. I read an article the other day that said that road accident deaths had not gone down during the corona lockdown in the Netherlands despite there being significantly less traffic on the roads.


Cops in several UK regions reporting the same today. Essentially saying that people finding themselves on quiet roads have been driving like clowns and many have crashed.

This is true. I went northern CA the other week to go do some training in a SNF (I'm talking from Silicon Valley area to like half an hour above Sac for those in CA) and there were plenty of people getting pulled over for speeding. Off one exit I saw a guy going like 95MPH and almost ran into a car. There was hardly anyone going that direction though.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Heroic Senior Officer





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

I did 50 miles around the county on Thursday, and had 2 people pull out on me.
Driving skills have atrophied for a lot of people (and lots weren't that great to start with)

4000 pts - 3500 pts - 3500 pts - Harlies: 1000 pts - 1000 ptsDS:70+S+G++MB+IPw40k86/f+D++A++/cWD64R+T(T)DM+
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"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw (probably)
Clubs around Coventry, UK 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/30/boris-johnsons-test-and-tracing-system-britain-lockdown

[ ] surprised.

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
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Made in nz
[MOD]
Villanous Scum






It was announced today that NZ is down to a single case of Corona and there have been zero infections in the past week. Seems that lockdown was pretty damn efficient here thanks to how early and thoroughly it was enforced, some emergency measures are still in place for at least another month just to make sure.

On cashless payments, that has been a thing here for years with tap and go (including phones and watches) being accept pretty much everywhere, including street vendors.

On parle toujours mal quand on n'a rien à dire.
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Backfire wrote:
Nobody kills his dad and participates in genocide just for cosplay.
 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52845015

It is probably better to keep things closed until we have a vaccine rather than opening back up for a few days then having to close again immediately due to a new outbreak.

 Ouze wrote:

How did you forget that time you got elected King of the Liberals? You swore on a copy of the Communist Manifesto that you would defend every belief held by any member of the left, foreign or domestic, or may you be cursed to forever more drink only non-fair-trade coffee, forevermore


*0 Dakka Suspensions and still going strong! Probably because I believe in science!* 
   
Made in gb
Castellan of Dol Guldur





Bodt

Which brings us to the question, what if there isn't a vaccine... Again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean, it could be the case that these countries who suqashed it all early have merely postponed their spikes and are just getting what we've had now they've reopened.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/30 10:46:56


Heresy World Eaters/Night Lords Genestealer cults.

Instagram: nagrakali_love_songs 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Which brings us to the question, what if there isn't a vaccine... Again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean, it could be the case that these countries who suqashed it all early have merely postponed their spikes and are just getting what we've had now they've reopened.


Or, hear me out, they implement a system of as few contacts with infected and people of infected countries as possible and we as a species further squash it in regions that are easily insulated due to geography, like other island nations.

Of course that would take alot of time and effort, especially when we get the island nations out of the way first but at this stage , if there were indeed no vaccine then i don't see any other way.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
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 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

Given more time and organisation (and a kick up the backside for some governments) and we could, in theory, wipe it out through a global track and trace program. The big hurdle isn't just organising it and ensuring enough resources; its preventing some countries from simply thrusting their head in the sand and ignoring the issue or not caring. Plus there's a lot of nations that are just not stable nor structured to really enact a proper track and trace of their population.

Even developed nations have issues and they've got generally stable government and effective infrastructure and education.


Thing is, as we are seeing from countries with effective lockdowns relaxing them; all it takes is one single person to spark off a whole new wave. Unless you've got a fast and effective tracing system then little hot-spots like that can be a nightmare to contain. Much as we might dislike it the whole "app that tracks your movements" is likely the only effective way to manage it for populations of the size we deal with today.


If you don't have that then there have to be other ways to monitor individuals entering things like public transport and public places. It's one thing to know someone at work had it and you've got to isolate - the issue is that 30min commute in the morning by train; or that 5 mins you pop into a shop to grab a bottle of water that you honestly won't even remember you did later that day let alone 7 days later when the infected person might be detected and the tracing starts to take effect.

   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Which brings us to the question, what if there isn't a vaccine... Again.



Then we should continue to isolate and quarantine... again.

Nothing has changed about that answer.

 Ouze wrote:

How did you forget that time you got elected King of the Liberals? You swore on a copy of the Communist Manifesto that you would defend every belief held by any member of the left, foreign or domestic, or may you be cursed to forever more drink only non-fair-trade coffee, forevermore


*0 Dakka Suspensions and still going strong! Probably because I believe in science!* 
   
Made in gb
Castellan of Dol Guldur





Bodt

so, nothing feasible then. cool. You just going to stay cooped up in your house until you die of old age?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/30 14:40:19


Heresy World Eaters/Night Lords Genestealer cults.

Instagram: nagrakali_love_songs 
   
 
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