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Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury



As somebody who reads a lot of history, there are eerie similarities here between the EU and the Khmer Rouge,


.. which side was it again that disparaged "experts" and laid the blame at the feet of a "metropolitan elite ", whilst relying on massively erroneous propaganda, cults of personality around various failed/would/untrustworthy MPs and a staunch appeal to how things were in some mythical days of yore ?

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

Herzlos wrote:
His Turkey point is that you're yet again bashing the EU for doing something that was driven by the UK.


 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

All I'm saying is that a bit realpolitik and common sense could have prevailed.


Sums up Brexit as a whole, pretty aptly.

Bids submitted before 2019 could have stood as a one-off exception.


Yeah, they could. But why?

Can you imagine how bizarre it'd be for a UK city with win the EU city of culture, whilst not being in the EU? Or the accusations if none of the UK countries gets it.

This is really a non-issue. I bet that before this came up you didn't even know there was a European city of culture, and are just latching onto this for the EU bashing.



I bet that before this came up you didn't even know there was a European city of culture, and are just latching onto this for the EU bashing.


I was around when Glasgow won it back in the day

And, I drive down to Dundee from time to time, so I'm familiar with their work in the local media to promote it.

I feel sorry for the young Dundee people that put in a lot of hard work.

Probably best If I keep my Brexit support under wraps next time I'm down there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 reds8n wrote:


As somebody who reads a lot of history, there are eerie similarities here between the EU and the Khmer Rouge,


.. which side was it again that disparaged "experts" and laid the blame at the feet of a "metropolitan elite ", whilst relying on massively erroneous propaganda, cults of personality around various failed/would/untrustworthy MPs and a staunch appeal to how things were in some mythical days of yore ?


Even the metropolitan elite admit there is a metropolitan elite.

Although I concede, and have done before, that just because I supported Brexit, doesn't mean I agree with every key Brexiteer and every aspect of the campaign.

There was a lot of bullgak on both sides. Everybody on dakka would agree on that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/24 14:13:37


"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block





 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
As somebody who reads a lot of history, there are eerie similarities here between the EU and the Khmer Rouge, especially with regard to 'year zero.'


I'm just going to quote this again so everyone can see it and marvel.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Could we refrain from petty name calling such as "tubby Little Englanders", please?

People on the Remain side of this thread don't like being characterized as "traitors". So it'd be nice if you practice what you preach.
   
Made in es
Inspiring Icon Bearer




Herzlos wrote:
His Turkey point is that you're yet again bashing the EU for doing something that was driven by the UK.


Thank you.
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 monarda wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
As somebody who reads a lot of history, there are eerie similarities here between the EU and the Khmer Rouge, especially with regard to 'year zero.'


I'm just going to quote this again so everyone can see it and marvel.


Indeed. It is completely insulting to the millions of Cambodians who were slaughtered by the Khmer Rouge to even consider comparing the two.

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 monarda wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
As somebody who reads a lot of history, there are eerie similarities here between the EU and the Khmer Rouge, especially with regard to 'year zero.'


I'm just going to quote this again so everyone can see it and marvel.


Indeed. It is completely insulting to the millions of Cambodians who were slaughtered by the Khmer Rouge to even consider comparing the two.


Yeah even I'm scratching my head at that one...
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

 monarda wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
As somebody who reads a lot of history, there are eerie similarities here between the EU and the Khmer Rouge, especially with regard to 'year zero.'


I'm just going to quote this again so everyone can see it and marvel.


I was referring to the cultural aspect, the relegation of a past that is deemed 'unwelcome', rather than the genocidal tendencies of the Khmer Rouge, but I suspect you already know that.

To make myself very very clear, IMO, the EU prefers to focus on events AFTER the Treaty of Rome and ignore inconvenient events BEFORE the Treaty of Rome, in a similar manner that the Khmer Rouge employed when they tried to IGNORE Cambodia's past until the moment they seized power.

By your logic, and your reaction, because Britain has a military, and because Nazi Germany had a military, therefore, if I compared the British military to the Nazi military, say structure and organization, I'm essentially saying that Britain and Nazi Germany are the same...

Is that the logic at work here?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 monarda wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
As somebody who reads a lot of history, there are eerie similarities here between the EU and the Khmer Rouge, especially with regard to 'year zero.'


I'm just going to quote this again so everyone can see it and marvel.


Indeed. It is completely insulting to the millions of Cambodians who were slaughtered by the Khmer Rouge to even consider comparing the two.


Somebody else has missed the point. Again.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/24 14:34:19


"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

It's more likely that you point was terribly made.

again.





So it'd be nice if you practice what you preach.


Great, so we're agreed the Khmer Rogue comparisons are totally ridiculous.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/24 14:54:31


The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in gb
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

Maybe I'm being ignorant here, but do you have any examples of the EU trying to ignore events before 1957? What sort of events?

Is this another angle to the entirely discredited "EU is stealing our cultural identity" speil?
Or the "We survived fine before the EU, so we don't need it 60 years later"?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/24 14:58:34


 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 reds8n wrote:
It's more likely that you point was terribly made.

again.





So it'd be nice if you practice what you preach.


Great, so we're agreed the Khmer Rogue comparisons are totally ridiculous.



Nice evasion. (But yes, they are).

Do you acknowledge that Remainers in this thread get more leeway when it comes to Rule #1 than Leavers?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/24 15:01:59


 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Perhaps it seems like that due to cognitive bias -- the effect that we notice things we are looking for more than things we are not.

One thing to remember is that moderation happens "behind the veil", so in general you will never know if another user has been moderated or how.

You do make a good point that everyone should be polite.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

Yeah, wise words from Kilkrazy about everybody being polite.

Robust and reasoned debate is a good thing, but I think we all tend to get carried away from time to time.

I think part of the problem is the fact that we live in a 24hr news cycle, where things get reported instantly, and therefore, we somehow expect things to be sorted instantly.

Obviously, I believe that Brexit will be a success, but we really need to wait at least 10 years before we can make an accurate conclusion one way or another.

"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

I'm only supporting Shadow Captain Edithrae in that.

To return to the topic, one of the difficulties with the situation is how to define success.

A lot of people voted for Brexit in order to be able to put more restrictions on EU citizens, and to remove the influence of the ECJ. That of course is very easily satified by resigning frm the EU and forming a completely 3rd party relationship such as Canada or Japan have.

This is what returning soverignty to the Westminster Parliament would be.

To me, though, such objectives are means to an end, rather than an end in themselves. I don't think soverignty is worth much if it results in us all shivering around the last can of beans warmed by a fire of EU environmental regulations. (Deliberately exaggerated example given.)

I hope we would all agree that there needs to be a very successful economic outcome to compensate for the damage of the last 10 years. In my view there also needs to be a lot of redistribution of wealth, so that the benefits of globalisation and free trade are available to the whole population, not just the top 10% or 1%.

My worry is that all the indicators are that leaving the EU is going to be somewhat or very damaging to the economy for several years. I have other concerns too, which I won't go into now.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
Drakhun





I do think that we have to all pull together to make Brexit a success.


I know it sucks remainers, but throwing toys out of the pram isn't going to prevent said pram from going over a cliff into the dark abyss below.

People probably know that I voted to leave because I have issues with the EU, I have no problems with our cousins from across the channel, I just want the EU to be better than the God awful mess that it is. And I think that leaving was the only way to give it the kick it needed to improve. It's a corrupt cantankerous cancer that needs killing off. Despite its good intentions, it has been poorly led all the while screaming more integration!

DS:90-S+G+++M++B-IPw40k03+D+A++/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
Warmachine MKIII record 39W/0D/6L
 
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




Southampton, UK

 welshhoppo wrote:
I do think that we have to all pull together to make Brexit a success.



This gets said a lot, but what does it actually mean? How does the average man on the street have any meaningful impact on whether Brexit is a success or not?

I'm still going to go to work every day (hoping it's not going to impact my job any - working for an Indian IT company supporting an American cosmetics company, it probably won't much), pay my mortgage, buy groceries etc. I'd say I'd buy British, but, well, what the hell do we still make? I'd happily buy another Lotus if I could afford one, but right now that doesn't seem likely (and anyway while they're built here, they're owned elsewhere)... :(

I think all most of us can do is hope (against the increasing weight of evidence against it) that the politicians do a good job with the negotiations, and hope the cost of the stuff we buy doesn't go up too much or the companies we work for decide to move elsewhere.
   
Made in gb
Nasty Nob





UK

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
....Obviously, I believe that Brexit will be a success, but we really need to wait at least 10 years before we can make an accurate conclusion one way or another.


Similarly, I believe that Britain will be a success despite Brexit. There's nothing like a "bit" of economic friction to really focus people's minds and give them some motivation.

"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


To make myself very very clear, IMO, the EU prefers to focus on events AFTER the Treaty of Rome and ignore inconvenient events BEFORE the Treaty of Rome


So in a nut shell what you are saying is that the EU is looking to the future rather than the past. Whilst the UK is admiring the past whilst ignoring the future? I think I could agree on this...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 welshhoppo wrote:

I know it sucks remainers, but throwing toys out of the pram isn't going to prevent said pram from going over a cliff into the dark abyss below.


Nah, I think I'd prefer to get out the pram with the toys and find one that is being pushed in the opposite direction away from the cliff. Something I'm working very hard at doing. I think I would be healthier without the 2000ft fall off a cliff edge.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/24 18:56:42


"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V

I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!

"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-liam-fox-accuses-british-11580012


Tory Liam Fox has accused British companies of hampering his ability to cut Brexit trade deals because they don’t want to trade overseas.









“We’re still way behind where our economy needs to be. So, we need to think about how we can make our economy export ready, and more investment ready as well, and how we get more of our companies to think about exporting overseas.

“I can agree as many trade agreements as I like, but if British business doesn’t want to export, then that doesn’t do us any good.”


That should, of course, read as disgraced minister Liam Fox.

So now we're leaving the Eu so we can forge trade deals over several years which we apparently do not even want.



http://uk.businessinsider.com/karan-bilimoria-attacks-liam-fox-for-brexit-export-comments-2017-11


LONDON — One of Britain's best-known entrepreneurs has told Business Insider that Liam Fox is "utterly unfit" to be in office, after the International Trade Secretary accused British business of not putting in enough effort into exporting their products overseas.

Lord Bilimoria, best known as the co-founder of Cobra beer, was responding to Fox's claim that British businesses are making his job harder because they don't want to export their goods.

"I can agree as many trade agreements as I like, but if British business doesn’t want to export, then that doesn't do us any good," Fox told House Magazine this week.

Fox has previously claimed that many business people are "too fat and too lazy" and spend too much time playing golf, rather than doing their jobs.

Bilimoria told BI on Friday that Fox's comments amounted to an "insult" to British business people across the board and show he is "completely unsuited" for the office.

"He is completely unsuited and shown himself to be quite frankly utterly unfit for this office. It's an insult to business," the life peer said.

"When he made the remarks he did last year I along with several other leaders were furious. Who on Earth was he to call us lazy? He doesn't have a clue how hard it is to start a business from scratch, to grow it, to raise finance and to export. It is not easy.

"For him to say that was utterly shocking."

Bilimoria was keen to stress that he "really appreciates" the work done by the Trade Department as a whole and praised UK commissioners for their "helpful" and "fabulous" work helping British business on the world stage.

The problem, Bilimoria claimed, is Fox's leadership of the department.

"What Fox said shows that he completely doesn't understand business and international trade," he explained.

"The first thing is that across the board in business nobody has any respect for Liam Fox. Nobody takes him seriously. That's a fact. We do not expect anything from him, but we don't want him to insult us in this way either.

"At Cobra I've got exporting experience covering a quarter of a century and he's somebody who has never run a business in his life trying to say I'm not working hard enough. He's saying we are not working hard enough because he can't sign trade deals."

Bilimoria, who has previously said that he voted for Remain in the EU referendum, added: "50% of our trade is with the EU. Our biggest export markets are within the EU. On top of that, almost 20% of our trade is with 50 countries which have free trade agreements with the EU, including Japan.

"So, is Liam Fox trying to tell business and exporters like me that I want to sacrifice 70% of our trade worldwide to try and go after the 30%? They are in absolute dreamland — and business understands this."

"When Fox makes comments like this it doesn't surprise me, but it's why we can't take him seriously. We don't like being insulted by someone who hasn't a clue about business."

Prime Minister Theresa May today slapped down Fox for his remarks, with her spokesperson saying: "The UK has a good record for exports."




..went down well then.

https://twitter.com/DanielHewittITV/status/934026188355526656


NEW: I’m told the Prime Minister has written to Mayor Andy Burnham to say govt will only pay “reasonable” costs spent by Manchester in response to May’s terror attack, NOT the full £17m.

Andy Burnham says the letter from the Prime Minister in response to the terror attack costs gives an “inclusive answer” to the money Manchester has requested but “gets no where near the sum we feel we need to cover our costs”.



.. well the cameras aren't there anymore and no one really votes tory in Manchester do they eh ?





Another triumph for the FO under Bojo !

state of this eh ?

Still I'm sure Labour will release a press bit that'll..





oh.

.... can we perhaps turn the country off and on again ?

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in ch
Legendary Dogfighter





RNAS Rockall

Crispy78 wrote:


This gets said a lot, but what does it actually mean? How does the average man on the street have any meaningful impact on whether Brexit is a success or not?


1. Use less government services whenever possible
2. Make do and mend foreign products, scrap and recycle British ones
3. Keep children to a maximum of 1 for the time being. sell any spares to foreign countries to eat into their economy/education budget instead, then re-import them when they're actually worth something.
4. use all your entertainment budget on GW products (or equivalent) - instead of American Recreational Electronics
5. live on Huel
6. Attract foreign tourists by discussing Neat Things in the UK online. For example, we have a disproportionate number of working steam engines, and the most recently constructed one at 9(?) years. One EU person I know is coming across due to my own personal efforts in this area
7. Find new oil wells
8. Don't take holidays in EU countries. Or indeed at all - money spent abroad is, effectively, money that leaves the economy.
9. Take up whisky/gin drinking instead of foreign import liquor
10. Stop smoking foreign tobacco products, but take up heavy smoking so you don't live too much longer than necessary - the NHS cost will be outweighed by pension savings in the long run, and inefficiency at work will lead to more people being employed to do the same job instead of one working and t'other on the dole.
11. Replace all your home electronics with Raspberry Pis








Some people find the idea that other people can be happy offensive, and will prefer causing harm to self improvement.  
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Well, I've got the gin and whisky drinking bit down pat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To get back to the topic, we cannot cooperate to strive for success unless we know what it is.

I know for some Brexiteers it means being outside the EU, the EEA and the EFTA, while for some Leavers it means being inside the EU, the EEA or the EFTA. There's no point discussing that side of things, as we can never agree.

But what about general goals of political economy and the UK's international standing?

I presume we would all prefer the UK to have a healthy growing economy. How do we want achieve that?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/24 20:13:21


I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
Drakhun





Crispy78 wrote:
 welshhoppo wrote:
I do think that we have to all pull together to make Brexit a success.



This gets said a lot, but what does it actually mean? How does the average man on the street have any meaningful impact on whether Brexit is a success or not?

I'm still going to go to work every day (hoping it's not going to impact my job any - working for an Indian IT company supporting an American cosmetics company, it probably won't much), pay my mortgage, buy groceries etc. I'd say I'd buy British, but, well, what the hell do we still make? I'd happily buy another Lotus if I could afford one, but right now that doesn't seem likely (and anyway while they're built here, they're owned elsewhere)... :(

I think all most of us can do is hope (against the increasing weight of evidence against it) that the politicians do a good job with the negotiations, and hope the cost of the stuff we buy doesn't go up too much or the companies we work for decide to move elsewhere.



Basically, I think we need to get rid of the massive Politcal apathy that has built up over the years. People complain that the Tories only had 30ish percent of the vote and the Brexit referendum was only 37% of the total voting population, well guess what, they are that low because nobody gives a monkeys left nut about politics.

One of the main benefits of Brexit, one that we can all agree on, is that there is no EU scapegoat hanging around parliament anymore, because they've beaten that poor goat for decades now, both the Torys and Labour have done it when it suits them.

So hopefully post Brexit, we can have a new age of politics without the EU causing issues, and without people blaming the EU for their mistakes. If we can get the younger generation interested in politics, then it can be for the good of us all.

DS:90-S+G+++M++B-IPw40k03+D+A++/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
Warmachine MKIII record 39W/0D/6L
 
   
Made in gb
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

I can't even tell if that list is a parody or not.

I too want to know how I can make brexit a success? How do I prevent my kids being screwed over by brexit, without moving back to the EU.

Regarding the scapegoating; I can guarantee we'll still be blaming the EU for decades to come.

I'm not sure brexit has improved political interest. I think it's generating even more apathy due to all the vitriol and the fact our politicians aren't even pretending to be competent any more.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/24 20:19:36


 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

The political apathy has already been dispelled. The youth are mobilising and registering in large numbers. The Tory Party is the party of the old people. Labour is recruiting fast. I've just joined, and I've never belonged to any party before.

We need proportional representation ASAP. We should have another referendum with an open ended question and a proper royal commission to work out options to be referendumized later on.

We should break England into a number of regional parliaments, overthrow Westminster and introduce a federal system.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
Drakhun





People who don't normally get involved with politics are getting involved with Brexit.


But politics will be stale until Brexit is over, labour won't do anything until it's over. They'll just hibernate and then pounce post Brexit to lay the smack down on them and Corbyn will rise like a 21st century Jesus to bring Britain to a new age!

DS:90-S+G+++M++B-IPw40k03+D+A++/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
Warmachine MKIII record 39W/0D/6L
 
   
Made in ch
Legendary Dogfighter





RNAS Rockall

Herzlos wrote:
I can't even tell if that list is a parody or not.


That was sort of the idea; and it's something we should all be doing and asking; "How does the way I live affect the nation's economy?" and the one that could probably be applied to the nation as a unit : "How much of what I do is chosen because it's the path of least resistance?"

The split in the vote, i'd suggest, is because so many people found themselves with those questions, and genuinely never thought about it. In turn, the vacuum in established position could then be exploited.

Some people find the idea that other people can be happy offensive, and will prefer causing harm to self improvement.  
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury





Straight talking from experts we can all believe in eh ?



http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/11/24/david-davis-refused-to-meet-brits-in-europe-countless-times


British in Europe, which represents UK citizens on the continent, says it has issued "countless" requests to meet with the secretary of state, none of which have been accepted. They've met with Brandon Lewis, immigration minister, Robin Walker, parliamentary under secretary at the Brexit department, and David Jones, junior minister. But they've never been able to meet the man supposedly fighting for their interests in talks with Barnier. This is despite the fact that Brexit-supporting columnists regularly brag about their long phone calls with Davis.

The organisation wrote to Theresa May on the evening of her Florence speech asking to meet her and Davis. No luck. They contacted the Department for Exiting the European Union (DExEU) several times. No luck, on any occasion. They tried to go through ambassadors and use side channels in Berlin and Luxembourg. No luck.

Michel Barnier is another story. Although he supposedly represents a threat to their interests, has met them twice: once on March 28th and again last Tuesday. They expect to meet him again early next year. But they have not been allowed to meet Davis.



what are these people actually doing ? ?

Is that RAF plane not good enough after all ?


The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in gb
Drakhun





Gah, Cider is already expensive enough as it is. It should also be taxed less seeing as the cider industry uses 50% of our Apple crops.


I mean, why eat apples when you can drink them!

DS:90-S+G+++M++B-IPw40k03+D+A++/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
Warmachine MKIII record 39W/0D/6L
 
   
Made in gb
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

 malamis wrote:
Herzlos wrote:
I can't even tell if that list is a parody or not.


That was sort of the idea; and it's something we should all be doing and asking; "How does the way I live affect the nation's economy?" and the one that could probably be applied to the nation as a unit : "How much of what I do is chosen because it's the path of least resistance?"


They also need to contrast it with "what's best for my own families interest?". The economy needs me to spend locally, but for me to weather the storm I need to try and save as much money as possible. So do I screw myself to try and prop up the economy or do I leave the economy to it and build a contingency?

Not that I have any money anyway, and how do I make sure I spend money with companies that pay their tax?
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







So far the primary Dakka solution to that is reminding our American friends that Forge World exists.
   
 
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