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My friends and I have been relentlessly playing the defiance beta, reading world lore, and watching everything we can on defiance.

We are miniature fanatics (40k, dba,impetus, post apoc skirmish, barsoom etc.) And we have decided to make defiance into a table top game. 100% fan made mind you. No endorsement, just a fan made game for us and our extended friends to play with their spare miniatures.

Is this legal? I know some people have made gears of war miniatures rules, and avp minis rules without problems, but this is America, and people have gotten sued for far less......
I mean we wont make a cent off the rules, or the minis.

We cannot decide on a scale, or what type of game it should be (skirmish, war, apoc. Etc.)
Any ideas?

So far we have draft rules for combat, and 3 factions : hellbugs, raiders, mutants.
essentially every mini (or group) has a Stat line : body, endurance, mind, strength. Body is how many hits it can take, and how far it can move, endurance is how hard it is to hit on a modified d6 roll, strength is how much cc damage it can do, and mind is how well the model can shoot,drive, perform specific actions etc. On a modified d6.

So post your ideas here, let me know what you think.
thanks

You can do it as long as you don't attempt to sell it.

Pretty much what Empchild said.

You're fine as long as you aren't selling it.

From what i've seen that interests me with it, I'd stick to small skirmish up to platoon strength level forces, it doesn't seem to need or support a much stronger level on the tabletop, not to mention the effort with converting up that many more figures

I'd be happy to have a look at any work you've done, and provide some playtetsting, impartial (hopefully) advice on things, you have a blog or anything for this? either here or elsewhere?

How about you use one of the rules sets called Defiance and be in the grey? I think their are three or four of them.

If you get outside of the scope of the big miniature game producers you will find that it is actually pretty common to find games and scenarios which are written to mirror video games, movies and other forms of media. Since most things follow a handful of existing tropes that define what they do - there is little that can be done to stop that side of things.

It becomes more complicated if you are thinking of also producing miniatures as those would tend to be based on copyrightable artwork and then - even for non-commercial businesses...things can get ugly. Fan projects are normally embraced though by media companies - and they rarely get in the way of them.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:


It becomes more complicated if you are thinking of also producing miniatures as those would tend to be based on copyrightable artwork and then - even for non-commercial businesses...things can get ugly. Fan projects are normally embraced though by media companies - and they rarely get in the way of them.

I wouldn't say ugly as I dealt with MGM a few years back as I was purchasing the Lisc. rights to produce a Star Gate board game. Generally you speak to the legal team and they will dictate some terms. You sign some paperwork and then agree to a royalty right. Now their is an actual benefit though as often the companies will post you up on their stores and generate free advertising but the standard for games and such is between 10-16% net. Honestly it's more of a hassle but can be profitable if done right.

 Empchild wrote:

 Sean_OBrien wrote:


It becomes more complicated if you are thinking of also producing miniatures as those would tend to be based on copyrightable artwork and then - even for non-commercial businesses...things can get ugly. Fan projects are normally embraced though by media companies - and they rarely get in the way of them.

I wouldn't say ugly as I dealt with MGM a few years back as I was purchasing the Lisc. rights to produce a Star Gate board game. Generally you speak to the legal team and they will dictate some terms. You sign some paperwork and then agree to a royalty right. Now their is an actual benefit though as often the companies will post you up on their stores and generate free advertising but the standard for games and such is between 10-16% net. Honestly it's more of a hassle but can be profitable if done right.

I was more referring to his initial "100% fan made mind you. No endorsement" position. Yes, licensing isn't difficult at all - and most of the time, license deals can actually be arranged that are reasonable...even for small companies. I've been involved in more than a few in one way or another. The ugly is when you spend a few thousand developing a product line and it gets squashed, the court orders you to turn over all media, products and tooling and you are fined - though that would involve not asking for permission first.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

 Empchild wrote:

 Sean_OBrien wrote:


It becomes more complicated if you are thinking of also producing miniatures as those would tend to be based on copyrightable artwork and then - even for non-commercial businesses...things can get ugly. Fan projects are normally embraced though by media companies - and they rarely get in the way of them.

I wouldn't say ugly as I dealt with MGM a few years back as I was purchasing the Lisc. rights to produce a Star Gate board game. Generally you speak to the legal team and they will dictate some terms. You sign some paperwork and then agree to a royalty right. Now their is an actual benefit though as often the companies will post you up on their stores and generate free advertising but the standard for games and such is between 10-16% net. Honestly it's more of a hassle but can be profitable if done right.

I was more referring to his initial "100% fan made mind you. No endorsement" position. Yes, licensing isn't difficult at all - and most of the time, license deals can actually be arranged that are reasonable...even for small companies. I've been involved in more than a few in one way or another. The ugly is when you spend a few thousand developing a product line and it gets squashed, the court orders you to turn over all media, products and tooling and you are fined - though that would involve not asking for permission first.

AHHHH ya that makes sense. Honestly if you guys are going to do it yourselves then find a sculptor and be upfront. Then find a good caster who is willing to do a limited run, I have heard trollforged in the past was willing to do those but IDK as they have grown heavily in the casting business. I use a casting company out of Indiana for my products but mine are long term business contracts. My resin casting is done by a small company in Virginia but again long term.

We don't have a blog up and running yet, as we are running the basic basics right now.

The hardest part is getting all the weapons down.

Basic hellbug stateliness looks like this, for a skitterling :

Str: 4 body: 4 end : 6 mnd:3

And a mutant rifleman is

Str 5 body 5 end 8 mnd 4

Votan blaster looks like this (its a gun)

Range 20" Str 8 pulse damage

I'm thinking each stat-line will need either a hits slot or a move slot, as body squalling both hits and movement just hasn't worked.