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Just wondering what some of you might like to see in a 2-player (2-gang) starter set?

I have a lot of ideas I'm kicking around. What I wanted to do is have 2 gangs plus the rulebook in 1 box for a discounted price. First idea is the Clancy Gang vs Vigilance Committee for the classic outlaws vs lawmen theme. We would also do expansion box sets too, so for the Skinwalker expansion you'd have the werewolf pack vs the monster hunter gang plus the expansion book.

But, since it's a starter set for the whole game we want to do a bigger box and make it look nice on the store shelves. Size would be around 10" x 10" x 2.75" .. that's pretty big, a lot of empty space in there since it's just a little book and 10 figures. So, I thought what if we came up with some other goodies to add in to fill up the space and also make the set have cooler stuff inside.

We could do some obstacle pieces.. piles of crates, barrels, sacks of grain and other junk.. maybe 2 or 3 different pieces, made of resin. Also would be sold separately, but cheaper to get the big box bundle.

Another idea would be double-sided board tiles.. enough for a 2 foot square board, thinking 9 8" tiles. Would show a birds eye view of part of the town. Tiles could have something like a road section on one side, and a building on the other, you can arrange them however you want. The expansion starter sets would come with new tiles so you can mix everything together, and tiles would also be sold separately. And we could also include some cardstock punch-out obstacle pieces like fence posts, trees, etc. Could also include some generic dice and maybe a teeny tape measure so it's everything you need to play in 1 box.

Both options would drive up the costs of the starter set.. The board tiles would be cost a lot to make, but could be pretty cool in the end. Not sure which way I like better... Just the minis? Minis & obstacles? Minis & game board? What would you rather see?


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Another idea we were just kicking around is a full starter set that comes with 2 gangs, rulebook, dice, mini tape measure and a board. Board would be a 1-piece 6-panel fold up board, 19"x28.5", and double-sided so you could get an additional board and put them next to each other to expand your town.

Would be a birds eye view of the town, showing the building interiors, so it might be tough to have snipers on the rooftops... but you could put a 3D building over the building spaces on the board. I imagine the building interiors would probably look kind of like they did with heroes of Normandie where you can see the whole inside...

could also do the buildings as cardstock templates you place anywhere, but I'm afraid they would slide around too easily and just be annoying.

The obvious answer is: MORE MINIS!!

If this is not possible, my biggest interest is in 3d cardstock and resin setups. Games Workshop had a lot of success with this. The best ones were the cardstock buildings that combined with plastic corners and bulkheads to create modular terrain. That might be a bridge to far for you, but I'd still like to see some little buildings, a few ruins or burned structures, and maybe a little fence or something.

I am not a big fan of the idea of a game mat or 2d building templates. I personally prefer 3d terrain. I've had friends who didn't might gaming mats, so I guess its just a matter of taste.

-Solo Sam

Yeah, I like 3D terrain better too. What I'd really like to be able to do is put together a good core set that's a good value for new and vet players.

Also kind of thinking of going the boxed-game route for the expansion.. so it would be like a stand alone board game, fully compatible with the core game. Just not sure about if you really need to have spaces to seem like a board game? or would people who like board games hate having to measure stuff? was thinking we could include a mini tape measure too

I do like the old WFB cardstock buildings.. and Necromunda. Could probably do something like that for the expansion but I'd want to try and keep costs as low as possible for the core game starter set.. would have to see how it goes

I loved the Necromunda stuff. It was very versatile, with all the towers and catwalks.

Have you considered making a "Limited Edition" model that can only be purchased as part of the starter set? Maybe you could make a unique hero, or a vehicle like a stagecoach.

Since you're thinking of monsters, you could come up with a powerful creature like the Thunderbird... or maybe a Mastadon Skinwalker... something bonus-sized that would play a special role in scenarios.

I really like the idea of an objective piece or two, like a stage coach.

I'm also not a fan of the 2-D terrain. However a matt or even tiles that just have a basic layout of the towns road systems would be neat. Kind of like the Hotz matts.

Yeah that's kind of what I was thinking.. would be like a hotz matt, but a printed board instead of a matt. We were kicking around the idea of having building interiors already printed on the board.. thinking we could do that, but also make some cardstock buildings that you place on top of the spaces on the board. My worry though was glossy card card on top of glossy card would slide around too much and be more annoying than fun.

Would love to see if we could do some plastic buildings as a stretch goal But, I think we'd want the campaign to focus more on getting more minis done.

Sliding buildings would be annoying. I also get annoyed by tiles that seperate during gameplay. I'm constantly shoving tiles back together while playing Zombicide. I even picked up some terraclips clips hoping they'd hold the tiles together but the tiles are to thick for them.

Card/plastic hybrid buildings like the old Mordheim set wouldn't be a bad idea.

Have you thought about working a deal with Battle Flag to include, say, an official BWG building kit in the starter set. That would be pretty cool. Would the laser cut boards fit into the size box you want?

I don't think the laser cut building would work.. they actually are kind of expensive to make, very little profit unless you can make them yourself, and even then it's not a retail-worthy margin.. and instead of spending thousands on a good laser printer thing, I'd rather put that toward getting plastic buildings done.

Would love to be able to do something like 2 starter gangs, 2 foot board, and 2 or 3 plastic buildings with other assorted obstacles, all plastic. Would be real expensive to make all those plastic molds though :/

Can you make a deal with Rendera and add in one of their plastic buildings or some plastic fencing? Or even work with GameCraft for a small laser cut MDF building?

Stuff like barrels, crates and hay bales would be cool too.

Jake

What I meant was to include a building that is already on the market in the starter set. Like, Gangfight buys the BWS1 Blackwater Gulch Special Building Deal wholesale or some sort of arranged discount, and then you include two of those small, laser cut buildings in each starter set box.

It would potentially dive up the price of the starter set, which you may not want to do. I am not a business person, so prices/margins/distribution/supply is not something that I am really putting much thought into.

However, those sets are packed flat, probably fit into the size box you are looking at using, make a good excuse to have the box be that big, are already designed and on the market, provide 3D terrain pieces, and helps to promote Battle Flag's BWG line of building products. I am assuming that you have some sort of extant relationship with Battle Flag since the company produces "official" BWG terrain pieces.

yeah, i love the wood buildings but they're just not profitable enough to sell on a retail level .. maybe if you make your own, but even then it's tight. I looked into doing our own once before and it would have been something like $60 for a small building. But we'll figure something out

I started out just wanting to do a discounted bundle price with everything in 1 box, now it's turning into Wild West Sedition Wars

This sounds like a cool idea, I'd love to see how this comes out!

In terms of contents, I'm all for terrain, and the battle tiles/mat would be a really cool feature. I agree with the ideas for some plastic terrain/objectives, but in terms of filling out more space in the box...you could do some gaming equipment of some kind?

Yeah .. I was thinking we would have some generic dice and maybe a mini tape measure with a logo, like those little keychain tape measures. But then I was thinking, if we're going for a board game hybrid, would it be better to do the board with a 1" square grid on the whole thing, so you just use spaces for moving & shooting, instead of measuring? That's what I was planning originally for the expansion, then we decided to just handle it with a new book and new minis, now it's come full circle and we're back where we started.

Only issue with 1" squares is, all of the bases are 30mm, so they're too big, just slightly.. we'd have to put something in the rules like "just make sure your base is centered over the square if it's a little too big". The gatling gun and some monsters will be on bigger bases.. we could just have them take up 4 squares.

So just not sure, I'm thinking a board game audience won't want to have to measure things. But, on the other hand, it might be annoying to have to count up 30 spaces for range every time you want to shoot your longarm.

Love the idea of a starter set. Personally, I'd stay away from a gridded board for this, maybe just include a 'measuring stick' (not the mostly-correct-GW type, but a card strip marked with inches and captions at certain distances to people can quickly see how far a model can move - thus making things easy for the boardgamers).

Terrain would be good, too. Preferably terrain that can be constructed our of the same card used for the measuring strip. It wouldn't have to look realistic, just representative enough that people know what they're looking at. As a bonus, you could include a card version of the hangman's platform (can't remember the proper name right now) for people who want to play that scenario.

I thought about a measuring stick of some kind, but I was afraid it would be too small to be effective to get it to fit in the box, some guns can shoot really far. The box will be 10x10" .. even at 12x12" it might still be too small. So that's why I was thinking of a mini tape measure. Though we could maybe do something that folds over on itself, but what I really want is something easy that will also last long and not get ripped easily.

Mostly thinking aloud here.. just trying to think of the best way to go since the game is already released in the book & minis format not board game format. Would it be weird to just do the expansion as a boxed game, and the core game later? Like if we were to do a Kickstarter it kind of seems redundant to do a 3rd campaign to re-release what we already have a year after the first campaign.. even if we switched to plastic figures. So I'm thinking we'd leave the core game alone, and just release Curse of the Skinwalker as a stand-alone-but-fully-compatible board game followed by box sets of minis for other monsters. Then the next expansion for zombies and stuff later, same idea. Maybe we could do an "OMG we'll do the core set as a board game too!" stretch goal if we do well enough?

So I'm thinking each boxed game would come with a double sided board, 6 dice, mini tape measure, cards & 10 miniatures, plus 2-3 buildings and extra obstacles. Boards, miniatures and terrain would also be sold separately. Terrain would start out planning to be cardstock, but plasticified with a stretch goal maybe, but the figures would be plastic.

A mini tape measure could also work. The plastic ones tailors use would be perfect.

Starting with card then 'upgrading' to plastic would work well, especially if you can made them customisable. Selling them separately would also be good, and allow existing players to pick up some goods without having to double up on minis.

A tailor's tape would be annoying to use. You can get custom mini tape measures for a relatively low cost. They are essentially promotional swag.

It is becoming difficult to know what BWG is supposed to be, or at the very least what your vision for BWG is.

I suppose on a practical level at this point it is a series of ~30mm funky wild west miniatures. I do not mean anything negative by this. To me the BWG line is distinct from other wild west lines in that the overall aesthetic has a fun, cinematic slant.

Beyond that, is it supposed to be a raucous, quick to play skirmish game, a story-driven campaign game, a board game, a weird west game? There seems to be a lot of ideas spinning around that do not share a consistent vision.

Yeah for the tape measure I was thinking of something like this, with the BWG logo on it


As far as what BWG is supposed to it... it's mean to be a "quick & fun skirmish game" with a hollywood western feel, with a bit of campyness. What I wanted to do was put together a bundled starter set with 2 gangs and the rulebook.. after brainstorming a lot with the fellas at Game Salute now I'm wondering if it should be more like a starter set that comes with everything you need to play, aimed more at new players who might have never played any kind of war/battle/skirmish game before. They're folks who don't have a 40k table and custom made terrain in their basement.

So it's not a board game where you roll dice and move whatever amount of spaces then draw a card. I guess boxed game is a better way to describe it. You get 2 starter gangs, character cards, dice, ruler, board and terrain. You don't have to use the board in the box set to play, you can just use your own wargame table and custom made terrain if you have that. You can skip the board and just use the cardstock buildings.. or you can use laser cut buildings with the printed board.. Really I just want to give players a lot of options.

For the campaign packs.. Its the same idea as the starter box set, new things bundled in 1 box.. some new models, board extensions and a new building or 2, and a book with some fluff, new rules if any, and some story driven scenarios to play. Everything that comes in these box sets would be sold separately too, it's just cheaper to get the box sets if you want everything in it.

Another thought on terrain for a boxed set - Renaissance Games want to make some Wild West terrain in the future. Maybe you could team up for some appropriate terrain that could break down and go into a box.

I was looking at their stuff.. looks good .. but there's so many companies doing wood buildings now, I don't think there's anything special we could add. So thats why I was thinking we could start with a cardstock and then move on to plastic. Maybe we could do plastic corners with door and window inserts kind of like the old Warhammer & mordheim buildings?

Was also thinking, since it will cost a lot to do the artwork and printing for card buildings, maybe we would just plan to always use them for the box sets, but if we can afford to do plastic buildings some day they would be a whole separate product. I'd love to do something modular like the Cities of Death buildings, but that might be too tough to pull off with angled roofs. Could work for flat roofs, but it might be boring if every building looks the same.

So.. question about game boards.. what do ya'll think would work better? a 2'x2' square quad-folding board that unfolds to be all 1 piece? Or heavy duty cardstock tiles that are 12" x 12" , and you just place them on the table next to each other? both doublesided..

I think the former will be easier to set up and hold together better, but the latter would allow for more flexibility.. seems like a lot of mini games with boards use the separate tile method, I think Game Salute wants to do the quad fold board though...

I think the quad fold could be good. One side maybe a town area (main road, areas to put buildings, maybe a side road or two perpendicular to the main road) and the other side maybe more generic desert/wilderness terrain that gamers could then set up rocks, plants/trees/ other scatter type terrain. May be a trail going through it for a 'ambush the stagecoach' scenario.

Both sides could be 'customized' by players by changing the buildings and other features around.

It may not be as flexible as single tiles which could be set up different ways, but the design costs would be a lot less and the chance of error on the printing/alignment are a lot less.

Yeah that's what I was thinking.. one side would be a little more "downtown" and the other side a little more rustic, but we'd still need to design them in a way that if you placed the 2 boards next to each other both sides would still look like they match.

One other thing we may do to try and keep the cost down is instead of including cardstock buildings in the starter set, we might go with flat building interior templates that you can just place anywhere on the board, along with some standees for some trees or fences and that sort of thing. Would make the game less 3D, but for a total newbie standpoint it might be easier to learn. Then we'd sell the physical buildings separately.

Lining up the 'main street' with the trail/street on the other side would not be too hard.

Would you sell the boards separately so folks could get two without having to buy two starter sets (I have a ton of your minis on the way from the latest kick start and a bunch of other Wild West minis already...)

Jake

yep that was the plan, I think we would probably do it like the starter set has everything, then we'd sell the minis separately and the board + building floors separately too. And then we'd probably do some other different boards for expansion/campaign packs.

Looks like if we did the quad fold board it would have to be 11" squares, so it would be a 22" board unfolded... based on the manufacturer's specs.