Switch Theme:

Seer Lists and IW - how to beat.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in jp
Regular Dakkanaut




Hey guys, with the prevalence of the seer lists and the IW lists in non-comp tournies and with their success in various tournies EVERYWHERE - Im looking to gain some thoughts on how to beat these guys.

Thoughts to abre in mind that you will need to create an army that will do well in a tournament environment and smash most armies and then handle either the IW lists and/or the Seer lists !

Your thoughts?

   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




To beat IW you best avoid their shooting and engage in hand to hand.

To beat the council, something that ignores their saves, or stops their rerolls might do it.

Possible solutions:

- Chaos Demonbomb (against IW) with a DP that ignores invul. saves (for the Council).

- Marines in Pods (against IW) with Librarian (not too great against the council, but might help a little.)

   
Made in us
Sister Oh-So Repentia




Here's a thought. Allied Daemon Hunter Inquisitor Lord with a Psychic Hood, Psycannon, and Emperors Tarot.

The theory being that you are more likely to go first (thus the council can't get Fortune off), and you might be able to cancel out their psychic abilities. Cheap and easy to add to most imperial armies.

Use a bare minimum retinue, (2 mystics and a sage?). Chances are, they'll probably kill the two retinue, but leave the Inquisitor unable to be shot at being an independant character.

Going first against IW (or most other armies) would be a bonus too.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Posted By Raider on 03/24/2006 4:48 PM
To beat IW you best avoid their shooting and be slaughtered by their daemon prince.



Fixed your typo.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Lexington, KY

I have to imagine the three whirlwind list with stacking minefields would put the seer council in a world of hurt.

Lay down some minefields and feed it a squad (arranged in a straight line at max coherency range), and make sure to have lots of dice to handle all of your minefield hits every time they have to pile in.

Stop trolling us so Lowinor and I can go back to beating each other's faces in. -pretre 
   
Made in jp
Regular Dakkanaut




My current difficulty is trying to balance out something that can take both lists. You can always theme to beat one army, but these guys are suitably different from one another. The mine trick wont work on IW.
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Skolarii Sector

There is a further advantage to using barontuman's Inquisitor (I have one in my own Daemonhunter list) in that 2 mystics allow them to shoot at summoned daemons and Oblits as they arrive, so it has utility against both armies.

With large Seer councils you need to make an early decision on whether to try to take them down or ignore them. Mobile armies can avoid them and beat up on the rest of the opponents army instead. A tarpit unit would help with this tactic - high save models can tie them up for a long time in combat. Playing objective missions stops the council being too effective. To effectively destroy the council you need anti psychics and/or something to ignore invulnerables. Psycannons, Ctan weapons, the Dreadaxe, etc. Alternatively, a lot of small arms fire can eventually topple them - you just need to focus on that unit exclusively.

Always outnumbered but never outgunned. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I didn't think Iron Warriors had the ability to summon daemons.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




IW shoot, shoot, shoot. If you can't out shoot them, you have to assault them. Most IW lists will have an HQ that helps kick people out of combat so you have to be careful what you try and assault them with.

For the seer council a statured daemon prince with dread axe would be the most logical choice. It helps a great deal against IW and the seer council. Give it a 2+ save, speed, and the collar of khorne and you are practically invulnerable to the seer council.

A Lost and the Damned army can approach IW in shooting. You get most of the toys that they do and can out unit them (I'm thinking of the cheap IW lists I like to run where no heavy is more than 125pts).

My best guess would be a LaTD army with the daemon prince I described above and including obliterators, lascannon tac squads(1-2), mutant hordes with powerfist wielding champions(2 of them), and a few traitor units so you can get hellhounds and a basilisk. A bassie or defiler is a must because you will need your own indirect fire to find the IW's indirect fire.

This might be the best army to take on both armies and still do well against the field.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.

It is hard to say how to beat them when we have no idea what army you play.



 
   
Made in jp
Regular Dakkanaut




I was thinking generally speaking Blackmoor. But, personally I play troop heavy BA.
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




DarthDigglers reasoning sounds convincing. LotD might be a good overall choice. It also provides a good amount of small arms fire, to direct at the councel, when neccessary. And it has guns to deal with multiple Falcons.
I fear (pun intended) LotD would horribly lose to drop pods though.


BAs might be able to do the job. Death Company could bind the council for probably the whole game, without giving up a scoring unit. And BAs have access to the hood.

I guess things get rough against IW though. (Is that your experiance?) You cant outshoot them and to get close you need to invest into mobility. Jump Packs might be best, but thouse strongly suffer from pinning AP3 templates.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




If LATD was so good, they would be the big army, not IWs.

I heartily think that Iron Warriors would likely trump the LATD
   
Made in us
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




Chicago, IL

LatD IS that good, against IW. Against the seer council, you lose your Aspirin champions and bosses, and lose a lot of CC oomph.

My old LatD list, now retired, had Leman russ, Defiler, 2 str 10 lascannons, 3 obliterators, 50 mutants, 8 hounds, 6 furies, 4 autocannons, and a partridge in a pear tree.

never lost to Iron warriors as I out shot them using the 72" range of the battlecannons to get rid of the troops and the lascannons to remove vehicles.

Never faced the uber seer council, but against the normal ones, just moved the mutants out of LOS and used battlecannons and lascannons to remove the other units.

Most people don't play LatD because it's harder to make a horde list. LatD is fairly unforgiving also in that you have lots of cheap units. (13 scoring units at 1850).

As stated above, once you tie up the seer council with a 10 marine squad in HtH, most of their nastiness goes away and you can focus on the rest of the army. 205 points to tie up a 800 point unit is a pretty good bargain to me.

Everytime you use the word fluff, a kitten dies
-Gav Thorpe

The only cheesy army is one that beats me because I am the greatest 40k player - ever. 
   
Made in jp
Regular Dakkanaut




Yeah- ive had a practice run of my 1850 list of BAvs the seer list. Im gonna have Round 2 vs the UK champs list this week sometime. I havent had too much practice with it vs. IW though.

Overall strategies anyone? The first on my list is a Libby. Without a doubt. Lascannons for the oblits, Lords, tanks etc are 2nd on the must have.

Assault cannons are gold- but, Im not playin a list that can field em. Any more thoughts?
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




How did the game vs the seers go?


BA excel as a counterassuult army (almost completely shooty, but with DC and furios charge for free.). This way they can win a lot of matchups. Against IW this does not work though...

Against IW you cant win with static shooting. You either have to go for assault (DC + fast stuff), or you have to opt for mobile firepower like mauleeds marines (requires some terrain though.).


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I think BAs can have a fair crack at it. I don't play them personally, but you could go for a drop pod/vehicle mix. Say 2 decent sized tac squads with vet sergeants w/pfists in pods, obligatory Death company, Librarian with jump pack fear/fury, 3 Baal Preds for mobile rending firepower, and landspeeders. I could be full of crap though because I don't know BA very well. Maybe leave out the Preds and get more land speeders for an all dropping force.


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




NV

Actually Raider, you can outdo IW with static shooty, it's just that you have to do it with LatD as PapaNurgle points out above.



History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. - Dwight D. Eisenhower 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Posted By PapaNurgle on 04/02/2006 11:42 PM
LatD IS that good, against IW. Against the seer council, you lose your Aspirin champions and bosses, and lose a lot of CC oomph.

My old LatD list, now retired, had Leman russ, Defiler, 2 str 10 lascannons, 3 obliterators, 50 mutants, 8 hounds, 6 furies, 4 autocannons, and a partridge in a pear tree.

never lost to Iron warriors as I out shot them using the 72" range of the battlecannons to get rid of the troops and the lascannons to remove vehicles.

Never faced the uber seer council, but against the normal ones, just moved the mutants out of LOS and used battlecannons and lascannons to remove the other units.

Most people don't play LatD because it's harder to make a horde list. LatD is fairly unforgiving also in that you have lots of cheap units. (13 scoring units at 1850).

As stated above, once you tie up the seer council with a 10 marine squad in HtH, most of their nastiness goes away and you can focus on the rest of the army. 205 points to tie up a 800 point unit is a pretty good bargain to me.


Doesn't the IW list have 9 Oblits, a defiler and a bassie and two russ? With some lasplas sprinkled here and there and a lightly tooled prince? Or am I giving them too much?
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: