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Moustache-twirling Princeps




We'll find out soon enough eh.

Christ they really need to get the folk who write the articles to have at least a rudimentary understanding of the rules of the game they're writing about.

No, WD Guy, a Castigator is not a great choice for stripping Void Shields because the sodding Bolt Cannon is STR3 and Voids ignore STR3 and below

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"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
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"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
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schoon wrote:---Before the HH, there were lots of Legios - now there are few. The opposite of Space Marine Chapters

I still don't get this one. If they managed to produce 'lots' of Legios in 200 years, surely they can produce at least as much in the next 10000 even at 50x slower rate, but if anything IoM actually grown...

JWBS wrote:Wow, I have to subscribe to Warhammer tv to watch their Twitch VODs. Genius. I bet whoever made this decision has made them loads of money, great work, whoever you are.

They "paywall" them to deter 4chan trolls and co, it's either allow commenting and chat to everyone, or only to subscribed accounts. Gee, I wonder what is going to be easier to moderate and have actual discussion with saner part of the audience, allowing everyone in or making the usual alt right trolls actually pay anything for their burst of idiocy before they are banned?

You can watch everything for free as it airs, and as much as I'd like VODs to be free, it's on Twitch's policies, not GW.
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Irbis wrote:
schoon wrote:---Before the HH, there were lots of Legios - now there are few. The opposite of Space Marine Chapters

I still don't get this one. If they managed to produce 'lots' of Legios in 200 years, surely they can produce at least as much in the next 10000 even at 50x slower rate, but if anything IoM actually grown...


Well titan legions are older than 200 years having started in age of strife.

Also Imperium has been losing ability to produce them.

“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

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 Irbis wrote:
schoon wrote:---Before the HH, there were lots of Legios - now there are few. The opposite of Space Marine Chapters

I still don't get this one. If they managed to produce 'lots' of Legios in 200 years, surely they can produce at least as much in the next 10000 even at 50x slower rate, but if anything IoM actually grown.


I don't think it's just that production has fallen off terribly (though it likely has compared to the Great Crusade-era just because of the Dark Mechanicus rift) but also the combat attrition on the Legios has increased dramatically. During the Great Crusade the Orks were scattered at Ullanor and took a while to re-form, the Eldar were still reeling from the birth of Slaanesh, the Chaos Gods were quiescent (comparatively) and the major other races were either asleep or not yet evolved. In short, compared to the Age of the Imperium there were actually a lot fewer major war fronts even if they were fighting a great deal more opponents in the Great Crusade. Also, the targets of those GC wars were likely much smaller and thus less able to offer meaningful resistance to the Titans unlike the opponents of M41.

With the schisms in the AM and those increased warfront commitments, I can see where a forge world 1) wouldn't exist anymore or 2) is having to choose which Legios's losses to make good. Either circumstance would likely leave those minor Legios in a position of dying out or merging with another, which is effectively the same.

Not sure that's the official GW explanation, but it fits with the backstory that I've heard about at any rate.
   
Made in gb
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 Irbis wrote:
schoon wrote:---Before the HH, there were lots of Legios - now there are few. The opposite of Space Marine Chapters

I still don't get this one. If they managed to produce 'lots' of Legios in 200 years, surely they can produce at least as much in the next 10000 even at 50x slower rate, but if anything IoM actually grown...

JWBS wrote:Wow, I have to subscribe to Warhammer tv to watch their Twitch VODs. Genius. I bet whoever made this decision has made them loads of money, great work, whoever you are.

They "paywall" them to deter 4chan trolls and co, it's either allow commenting and chat to everyone, or only to subscribed accounts. Gee, I wonder what is going to be easier to moderate and have actual discussion with saner part of the audience, allowing everyone in or making the usual alt right trolls actually pay anything for their burst of idiocy before they are banned?

You can watch everything for free as it airs, and as much as I'd like VODs to be free, it's on Twitch's policies, not GW.


Nah man. I watch some Twitch live streams but I'd say I watch VODs a bit more, and I don't pay for any of them. It's entirely on GW if they want to charge people to watch their vods, and making them free doesn't effect live chat at all (and incidentally there are other ways of making live chat more sane, such as "1hr follower mode" etc, where you can only chat if you've followed the channel for at least an hour. But I'm not talking about that anyway, I'm pointing out that GW seem to hope that people are willing to give them money to watch their random ass vids).
   
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Matlacha, FL

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I wouldn't hold your breath for BFG.


The same rumor mongers that predicted adeptus titanicus, and got everything right, predicted BFG was coming afterward. I'm not sure how they would know so much about AT, release date, exact size of the models, material, etc, but be 100% wrong about BFG.

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Been Around the Block




If anyone is interested I've uploaded a video review (my first ever!) of the Forgeworld Realm of Battle tile for AT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbVwoZHZM9A
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






JWBS wrote:
 Irbis wrote:
schoon wrote:---Before the HH, there were lots of Legios - now there are few. The opposite of Space Marine Chapters

I still don't get this one. If they managed to produce 'lots' of Legios in 200 years, surely they can produce at least as much in the next 10000 even at 50x slower rate, but if anything IoM actually grown...

JWBS wrote:Wow, I have to subscribe to Warhammer tv to watch their Twitch VODs. Genius. I bet whoever made this decision has made them loads of money, great work, whoever you are.

They "paywall" them to deter 4chan trolls and co, it's either allow commenting and chat to everyone, or only to subscribed accounts. Gee, I wonder what is going to be easier to moderate and have actual discussion with saner part of the audience, allowing everyone in or making the usual alt right trolls actually pay anything for their burst of idiocy before they are banned?

You can watch everything for free as it airs, and as much as I'd like VODs to be free, it's on Twitch's policies, not GW.


Nah man. I watch some Twitch live streams but I'd say I watch VODs a bit more, and I don't pay for any of them. It's entirely on GW if they want to charge people to watch their vods, and making them free doesn't effect live chat at all (and incidentally there are other ways of making live chat more sane, such as "1hr follower mode" etc, where you can only chat if you've followed the channel for at least an hour. But I'm not talking about that anyway, I'm pointing out that GW seem to hope that people are willing to give them money to watch their random ass vids).


I don't think there's any "hope" required - the chat stream is usually pretty busy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Toofast wrote:
 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I wouldn't hold your breath for BFG.


The same rumor mongers that predicted adeptus titanicus, and got everything right, predicted BFG was coming afterward. I'm not sure how they would know so much about AT, release date, exact size of the models, material, etc, but be 100% wrong about BFG.


I never said BFG wasn't coming, just that it'll be a long wait. "Afterward" is a vague term. If Spectral Ceramite isn't willing to wait for Eldar or Orks for AT, they'll probably be waiting even longer for them in BFG. They'll be waiting until late next year at the very earliest, and if BFG does come along in 2019, it'll almost certainly be set in the Heresy too - so only Imperial ships available.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/01 18:16:33


 
   
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Wrexham, North Wales

Well, in BFG terms, it'll only be the Chaos ships....
   
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RVA

Is there a new (a.k.a., next) book coming up soon?

   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut





Titan death should come next. Maybe january. No confirmed date though

“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

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tneva82 wrote:
Titan death should come next. Maybe january. No confirmed date though


There's a FW HH weekender on 2nd/3rd Feb, so around then would be a good bet.
   
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Matlacha, FL

Is the titan bundle available from retailers or direct only?

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Devon, UK

Third party. It's just another festive bundle.

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If GW wanted to test the Epic waters, they could do one of those £40 boxed games - like Lost Patrol, Gorechosen etc - and have some knights with cardboard buildings.

If its really popular they can move into Epic with Armigers, dreadnoughts and tanks, or if not then at least the Knights and cardboard buildings would be compatible with AT.

If push comes to shove, then there is definitely a "travel edition" of Imperial Knights Renegade they could do. Maybe swap the Questoris for Cerastus knights and pushing the boat out, add a special weapons sprue for variety.
   
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Matlacha, FL

SamusDrake wrote:
If GW wanted to test the Epic waters, they could do one of those £40 boxed games - like Lost Patrol, Gorechosen etc - and have some knights with cardboard buildings.

If its really popular they can move into Epic with Armigers, dreadnoughts and tanks, or if not then at least the Knights and cardboard buildings would be compatible with AT.

If push comes to shove, then there is definitely a "travel edition" of Imperial Knights Renegade they could do. Maybe swap the Questoris for Cerastus knights and pushing the boat out, add a special weapons sprue for variety.


They have repeatedly said they have no plans to reproduce epic, AT is going to remain a game of titans. They might add xenos titans at some point in the future. It will never be epic and I'm perfectly happy with that. If I want tanks and infantry I just play 40k.

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Longtime Dakkanaut




UK

GW isn't promising anything for Epic and lets not forget Epic would be a much bigger investment than AT because they'd have to make a lot more individual unit moulds to get core armies started off for it. AT is a much smaller investment even if the sculpts and moulds themselves are far larger.

Plus AT scales itself well, even with just one faction it works. They can stop it at any point and it still works whilst they can and likely iwll take it further to corrupted and warped chaos titans and then on to Xenos but that's years away yet (and GW marketing focuses more on months than years)

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Rampton, UK

They say they have no plans but I would not be surprised to see it come back in a few years time, it was always a very popular system and there are still a lot of old fans knocking about and they never said never !


Still there is a lot that can be done with AT and I am happy with that so far.
   
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Regular Dakkanaut




Well, who knows what the future holds with GW but I do know that AT is a step in the right direction. Despite the awkward August launch the game has still managed to find its audience and seems to be selling quite well.

I've noticed they have used the new battle group box set as part of a one-click purchase on the GW site. If bundled into a single box this could be a replacement for the Grand Master edition...
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Toofast wrote:
SamusDrake wrote:
If GW wanted to test the Epic waters, they could do one of those £40 boxed games - like Lost Patrol, Gorechosen etc - and have some knights with cardboard buildings.

If its really popular they can move into Epic with Armigers, dreadnoughts and tanks, or if not then at least the Knights and cardboard buildings would be compatible with AT.

If push comes to shove, then there is definitely a "travel edition" of Imperial Knights Renegade they could do. Maybe swap the Questoris for Cerastus knights and pushing the boat out, add a special weapons sprue for variety.


They have repeatedly said they have no plans to reproduce epic, AT is going to remain a game of titans. They might add xenos titans at some point in the future. It will never be epic and I'm perfectly happy with that. If I want tanks and infantry I just play 40k.


For one gw also said no space hulk rerelease 2 weeks before they announced space hulk rerelease. For 2nd 40k ls totally unsuited for big battles. Totally different kettle for 40k and epic


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Overread wrote:
GW isn't promising anything for Epic and lets not forget Epic would be a much bigger investment than AT because they'd have to make a lot more individual unit moulds to get core armies started off for it. AT is a much smaller investment even if the sculpts and moulds themselves are far larger.

Plus AT scales itself well, even with just one faction it works. They can stop it at any point and it still works whilst they can and likely iwll take it further to corrupted and warped chaos titans and then on to Xenos but that's years away yet (and GW marketing focuses more on months than years)


Dunno. They could get by with 3-4 sprues to start with easily if tkey wantem.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/03 21:30:47


“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

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Yeah.

Not adding infantry and non-Super Heavies to Adeptus Titanicus isn’t the same as ‘not doing Epic ever’.

They’re two different games, each providing a different experience. If Titans do feature in Epic (I can’t imagine they won’t), it’ll be a more streamlined rules set. Think strip out the reactor rules, simplified damage rules etc. Otherwise the infantry and lighter tanks serve no real purpose once you plonk a Titan on the board using the AT rules, because the vast majority won’t be able to dent it, let alone knock down shields.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the sprue requirements?

Look at the original Epic Space Marine sprue.
Spoiler:





Single sprue. 4 Rhinos, every infantry to fill them, and two Landraiders. Pretty basic, and that’s all it really needs to be. Whack in three or four per player, and another with additional infantry (Heavy Weapons, Terminators etc). Enough to get things going.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/03 21:55:33


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Southeastern PA, USA

SamusDrake wrote:
Well, who knows what the future holds with GW but I do know that AT is a step in the right direction. Despite the awkward August launch the game has still managed to find its audience and seems to be selling quite well.

I've noticed they have used the new battle group box set as part of a one-click purchase on the GW site. If bundled into a single box this could be a replacement for the Grand Master edition...


That bundle is a great starter at a good price. Exactly what the game needs.

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There’s also this sprue, which offers a greater variety of troops.

Spoiler:




Two stands of bikes, stand of Terminators, stand of Scouts, Command squad, 8 Heavy Weapons, assorted Sargeants. Loads of variety, single sprue. Which may have been matched with one of Tactical Marines? Memory is hazy there.

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Virginia

I started 40k in 3rd edition and Epic wasn't sold in stores then IIRC. Can we talk for a minute about why Epic faded away? What held Epic and Warmaster back while Fantasy/40k became way more successful?

I'm just asking because GW needs a real business case for rebooting something that seemed very niche in a niche hobby.
   
Made in nl
Moustache-twirling Princeps




We'll find out soon enough eh.

 Fajita Fan wrote:
I started 40k in 3rd edition and Epic wasn't sold in stores then IIRC. Can we talk for a minute about why Epic faded away? What held Epic and Warmaster back while Fantasy/40k became way more successful?

I'm just asking because GW needs a real business case for rebooting something that seemed very niche in a niche hobby.


I'd say two things.

1. GW themselves. Their paranoia at the idea they were "cannibalising" sales for their "main" systems led them to increasingly de-emphasise other games, first switching from just releasing extra games - like Epic - to releasing extra games as Specialist Games with a defined shelf-life before support was dropped and they moved on to another, and eventually by culling virtually all support entirely and not making any new SGs at all.

2. The kind of grogs/vets who stayed with the company through the behaviour from 1, many of whom were content to just keep expanding their 40K/WHF collections(though eventually GW's strategy following point 1 would do for the latter of those as well) and who liked the things GW were offering in terms of being able to use more of their HUEG collections at any given time; Apocalypse, adding flyers, huge swinging cuts in points etc etc.

Because of those, Epic didn't really "fade away", it just changed from an actively supported system to a fan-driven one and was utterly ignored by GW. Thing is, Blood Bowl went the same way, and by all accounts the response to GW bringing that back was so emphatically positive it's the reason we have plastic Titans for AT, so while it's technically true to say Epic is a niche-of-a-niche proposition, I'd say the results from two similar resurrections in BB and AT demonstrate the interest - and money - is there if GW want it.

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"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
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UK

I wouldn't totally discount the epic is cannibalizing 40K sales argument as it was developed during the period when GW was doing market research and looking at their own internal sales data

and not just during Prime Time Kirby when actually knowing facts was seen as heretical

(but the thing is even if some epic players are less inclined to buy more 40K stuff if you carry on expanding Epic you'd have sold them more of that instead so it's not a terribly strong argument as long as you've got the staff and money to invest in running both at the same time)

 
   
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 Fajita Fan wrote:
I started 40k in 3rd edition and Epic wasn't sold in stores then IIRC. Can we talk for a minute about why Epic faded away? What held Epic and Warmaster back while Fantasy/40k became way more successful?

I'm just asking because GW needs a real business case for rebooting something that seemed very niche in a niche hobby.


This is going wayback( about the turn of the millenium? ), but I vaguely remember a version of Epic that was introduced and then suddenly disappeared over night. Only GW could shed light on this but from the customer side of things it seemed like they just couldn't be bothered to support the game properly.

That said, the whole "Space Marine" and Epic 40K thing has been kept alive with NetEpic which is still being updated even today. If you haven't got the scale models then there is always DIY tokens or even plasticard with custom flags to indicate the unit type.

Personally, I feel that if the epic scale thing wasn't something GW was confident about then we wouldn't have Titanicus. Necromunda, Space Hulk, Warhammer Quest - even Blood Bowl - can at least claim its miniatures can be reused in regular 40K / AOS, so why risk 8mm with no other product thats compatible? Also this game is expensive compared to GW's other products and even GW knows that £175 was going to ruffle some feathers.

I don't know what form it will take, or when, but I have the feeling GW has another 8mm game in mind...
   
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I could see them adding infantry/vehicles as ”battlefield assets” using stratagem points.
That would give infantry/vehicles a small supporting role in the game, potentially very specialized for a certain task, without distraction from the main titan on titan gameplay.

   
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 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I wouldn't totally discount the epic is cannibalizing 40K sales argument as it was developed during the period when GW was doing market research and looking at their own internal sales data

and not just during Prime Time Kirby when actually knowing facts was seen as heretical

(but the thing is even if some epic players are less inclined to buy more 40K stuff if you carry on expanding Epic you'd have sold them more of that instead so it's not a terribly strong argument as long as you've got the staff and money to invest in running both at the same time)


They might cannibalize SOME sales but would also bring in money they wouldn't get anyway. The games are very different catering for different needs.

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What happened to Epic?

Space Marine/Titan Legions became Epic 40,000. That pretty much covers it.

Epic 40,000’s rules just weren’t a patch on Space Marine. All this add up your firepower then check the chart nonsense was rubbish. Sure, it works in BFG, but not in Epic.

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