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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

Would love a full auto Tommy gun.

Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 cuda1179 wrote:


Well, there's really not much you CAN'T own, you just need to go through some major paperwork. A Russian Ballistic knife isn't a firearm, but is illegal, but fun looking. Technically legal, but a full-auto MP5. A semi-auto is on my bucket list and is one of two weapons (the other a Styr Aug) to complete my "Guns of Die Hard" collection. A pen gun would be nifty.


Getting any post-WW II Japanese firearm is going to take a lot of work, since Japan doesn't export weapons.

A friend and I worked out that about the only way one could get one would be to work for a US defense contractor and request a sample for a proposed design that would build on commonality of spare parts.

That would probably be the hardest barrier to overcome, even worse than scarcity because scarcity can usually be solved with money. I mean bribery/theft might work, but since it is known Japan doesn't let current weapons out of the country, you'd pretty much have to hide it because every jurisdiction would know it was stolen.

Want a better way to do fantasy/historical miniatures battles?  Look no further.

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My 2nd edition Warhammer 40k resource page. Check out my other stuff at https://www.ahlloyd.com 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Has anyone asked what is the most unusual caliber you own or have shot?

Want a better way to do fantasy/historical miniatures battles?  Look no further.

Do you like Star Wars but find the prequels and sequels disappointing?  Man of Destiny is the book series for you.

My 2nd edition Warhammer 40k resource page. Check out my other stuff at https://www.ahlloyd.com 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Just bought a Hakim, only paid 1k for it too.

The store had a pre94 ban FAL, with original Israeli radioactive scope, flashhider, and bipod, but 4k is a little too much for me right now

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






You have a radioactive Israeli strapped your gun?

Bit weird

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

Not at all quote mined. 
   
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Denison, Iowa

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:


Well, there's really not much you CAN'T own, you just need to go through some major paperwork. A Russian Ballistic knife isn't a firearm, but is illegal, but fun looking. Technically legal, but a full-auto MP5. A semi-auto is on my bucket list and is one of two weapons (the other a Styr Aug) to complete my "Guns of Die Hard" collection. A pen gun would be nifty.


Getting any post-WW II Japanese firearm is going to take a lot of work, since Japan doesn't export weapons.

A friend and I worked out that about the only way one could get one would be to work for a US defense contractor and request a sample for a proposed design that would build on commonality of spare parts.

That would probably be the hardest barrier to overcome, even worse than scarcity because scarcity can usually be solved with money. I mean bribery/theft might work, but since it is known Japan doesn't let current weapons out of the country, you'd pretty much have to hide it because every jurisdiction would know it was stolen.


Do they only restrict receivers, or parts as well? One might be able to 3d print a receiver if you could get the rest of the parts.
   
Made in us
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 cuda1179 wrote:


Do they only restrict receivers, or parts as well? One might be able to 3d print a receiver if you could get the rest of the parts.


Japan does not export weapons. Period. As far as I know, there is no mechanism for it to happen. As soon as Japan was allowed to rearm, it developed its own in-house versions of American weapons and then branched out, but it's completely self-contained.

The only way you could gain access would be through a mil-to-mil channels. Believe SIG designed one of Japan's sidearms, so they would probably have sample weapons in their collection. That's about it.

You'd pretty much have to do the same - set up a facility, and then contact DoD and say you want to submit a design that would merge commonality of parts with Japan in the case of major Asian combat operations.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/11/24 13:22:42


Want a better way to do fantasy/historical miniatures battles?  Look no further.

Do you like Star Wars but find the prequels and sequels disappointing?  Man of Destiny is the book series for you.

My 2nd edition Warhammer 40k resource page. Check out my other stuff at https://www.ahlloyd.com 
   
Made in us
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Denison, Iowa

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:


Do they only restrict receivers, or parts as well? One might be able to 3d print a receiver if you could get the rest of the parts.


Japan does not export weapons. Period. As far as I know, there is no mechanism for it to happen. As soon as Japan was allowed to rearm, it developed its own in-house versions of American weapons and then branched out, but it's completely self-contained.

The only way you could gain access would be through a mil-to-mil channels. Believe SIG designed one of Japan's sidearms, so they would probably have sample weapons in their collection. That's about it.

You'd pretty much have to do the same - set up a facility, and then contact DoD and say you want to submit a design that would merge commonality of parts with Japan in the case of major Asian combat operations.


Dang. So short of being part of a major manufacturer the best hope you have is blueprints and making your own knockoff. Finding one that "fell off the back of a truck" is the next step. All that being said, is there anything from Japan that is good?
   
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Seneca Nation of Indians

Lahti L-39


 CptJake wrote:
Would love a full auto Tommy gun.


Eh.... standing on the strap isn't as fun as it sounds, she wants to move from side to side then, even with the compensator.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






On the Tommy Gun. In media we see them with a front grip.

Being such an early SMG (maybe the earliest?) was that also the original front/riot grip?

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

Not at all quote mined. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 cuda1179 wrote:
Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

Dang. So short of being part of a major manufacturer the best hope you have is blueprints and making your own knockoff. Finding one that "fell off the back of a truck" is the next step. All that being said, is there anything from Japan that is good?


I don't know that they have anything particularly innovative, but the quality is likely absurdly good.

The mystery - who ever gets to shoot contemporary Japanese weapons? - is part of the attraction.

Want a better way to do fantasy/historical miniatures battles?  Look no further.

Do you like Star Wars but find the prequels and sequels disappointing?  Man of Destiny is the book series for you.

My 2nd edition Warhammer 40k resource page. Check out my other stuff at https://www.ahlloyd.com 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






May have asked this before. But…

Assault Rifle magazines.

AK47 types have a bend. M16 type have an angled bottom.

What purpose does this serve, when others have straight magazines?

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

Not at all quote mined. 
   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
May have asked this before. But…

Assault Rifle magazines.

AK47 types have a bend. M16 type have an angled bottom.

What purpose does this serve, when others have straight magazines?


For most rifles, it holds more rounds, due to the shape of the bullet. The rear of the round is larger than the tip of the round, so the curve has it hold more rounds. This is my understanding, but I'm pretty sure I'm correct.

‘What Lorgar’s fanatics have not seen is that these gods are nothing compared to the power and the majesty of the Machine-God. Already, members of our growing cult are using the grace of the Omnissiah – the true Omnissiah, not Terra’s false prophet – to harness the might of the warp. Geller fields, warp missiles, void shields, all these things you are familiar with. But their underlying principles can be turned to so much more. Through novel exploitations of these technologies we will gain mastery first over the energies of the empyrean, then over the lesser entities, until finally the very gods themselves will bend the knee and recognise the supremacy of the Machine-God"
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Made in gb
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That makes sense. More rounds in the same rough space

Was wondering if perhaps it helped with the spring feed as well. Assuming they’re spring fed. Could be pushed by a Squig for all I know.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

Not at all quote mined. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That makes sense. More rounds in the same rough space

Was wondering if perhaps it helped with the spring feed as well. Assuming they’re spring fed. Could be pushed by a Squig for all I know.


The taper varies from cartridge to cartridge, which is why magazine shapes also vary.

Those that have a casing with no taper can have straight magazines, which also tend to feed better.

Of course, the best feed is when gravity helps you out, but top-mounted magazines create other issues.

Want a better way to do fantasy/historical miniatures battles?  Look no further.

Do you like Star Wars but find the prequels and sequels disappointing?  Man of Destiny is the book series for you.

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Made in us
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Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

The shape of the ammunition casing determines the shape of the magazine. Most rifle rounds are tapered, but some more aggressively than others. 5.56 has a very very minor taper, which is why those mags have only slight curves. 7.62x39 has a fairly aggressive taper so they are very curved.

Also, if there is a curve it will be more noticeable the larger the magazine. A 30 round 5.56 mag has a slight but subtle curve. A 40 round 5.56 mag is more noticable.

A 30 round 7.62 mag has a pronounced curve. A 40 rounder has a silly huge curve.

30.06 and .308/7.62NATO have very minimal taper and are typically smaller capacity magazines. Usually 15-20 rounders. Thus most weapons with these calibers have completely straight mags.

Most pistol mags are straight because they have either too few rounds in them to cause a taper or have to be designed that way due to needing to go into a straight pistol grip. Carbines that are chambered in pistol calibers tend not to have this requirement and depend on the ammo. 9mm is a tapered cartridge, .45 is straight. That is why 9mm SMG mags are curved and .45 SMGs have straight mags(usually).

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Another factor in magazine shape is whether the cartridge is rimmed or not. That is, does the cartridge casing have a rim around the base to aid with chambering/extraction.

British .303, Russian 7.62x54R, 8mm Lebel all have rims. Revolver ammo also has a rim so that the cartridge doesn't fall clear through the cylinder.

These will require a curve on the magazine for the rim to fit, and they are often quite severe (the Chauchat's magazine is a half-circle in shape). Rimmed cartridges also can suffer from the thing called "rimlock" which is when the rim of the top cartridge is behind the one below it, preventing it from chambering. Careful loading is therefore essential and some magazines use a guide or are slanted to prevent this from happening. For example, .22 LR magazines typically are straight (unless they are really big), but have a guide at the top to prevent rimlock.

Magazine issues are the single greatest source of malfunction, and in scale, they are expensive to produce, which is why so many armies preferred internal magazines fed by stripper clips and/or had detachable magazines that were only removed for cleaning.

The Steyr M1912 pistol is a curious combination of advanced features (auto-loading, uses rotating rather than tilting barrel) but it is fed by stripper clips through the top. Unloading it is a hoot, since the release button pulls aside the feed lips and the rounds shoot out of the top of the weapon. Probably the most steam punk large-production firearm out there.

Want a better way to do fantasy/historical miniatures battles?  Look no further.

Do you like Star Wars but find the prequels and sequels disappointing?  Man of Destiny is the book series for you.

My 2nd edition Warhammer 40k resource page. Check out my other stuff at https://www.ahlloyd.com 
   
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Seneca Nation of Indians

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On the Tommy Gun. In media we see them with a front grip.


Yeah, even the military issue ones had a variety of foregrips. But she's got a LOT of recoil, which makes her rise on full auto. A friend of my grandfather still had his M1, and he explained that if you were going to fire on full auto for a long period, you unclipped the sling, and stood on it to keep it on target. Some M1s had a bit of a quirk where the cyclic rate would increase the longer you fired it, and top out around 800 per min.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
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CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On the Tommy Gun. In media we see them with a front grip.


Yeah, even the military issue ones had a variety of foregrips. But she's got a LOT of recoil, which makes her rise on full auto. A friend of my grandfather still had his M1, and he explained that if you were going to fire on full auto for a long period, you unclipped the sling, and stood on it to keep it on target. Some M1s had a bit of a quirk where the cyclic rate would increase the longer you fired it, and top out around 800 per min.


They are so heavy, don't seem to fire that quickly, that I really don't expect felt recoil could be too bad. With a sling and fore grip and a drum magazine I would think it would be pretty manageable. Admittedly I've never fired a full auto version before.

Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 BaronIveagh wrote:


Yeah, even the military issue ones had a variety of foregrips. But she's got a LOT of recoil, which makes her rise on full auto. A friend of my grandfather still had his M1, and he explained that if you were going to fire on full auto for a long period, you unclipped the sling, and stood on it to keep it on target. Some M1s had a bit of a quirk where the cyclic rate would increase the longer you fired it, and top out around 800 per min.


Doing a mag dump is different that firing controlled bursts, which is what you want to do unless you have a cart with spare magazines sitting next to you.

Want a better way to do fantasy/historical miniatures battles?  Look no further.

Do you like Star Wars but find the prequels and sequels disappointing?  Man of Destiny is the book series for you.

My 2nd edition Warhammer 40k resource page. Check out my other stuff at https://www.ahlloyd.com 
   
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Denison, Iowa

As long as we are talking magazine shape, there are a few outliers that defied convertional thinking when they were invented. This includes the rotory mag, helical mag, and the weird mags for the p-90. In the case of the rotory mag, it was specifically designed to have rimmed rounds fire reliably without having an insane curve.

Speaking of rotory mags, I've wanted a 357 Ruger 77 for some time.
   
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As a left hander I have always wanted a Calico pistol with their strange mags. But price and horror stories always stop me.
   
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Veldrain wrote:
As a left hander I have always wanted a Calico pistol with their strange mags. But price and horror stories always stop me.


Charter Arms actually makes a left-handed revolver. Cylinder swings out to the opposite side. It's called the Southpaw.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/11/27 12:59:30


Want a better way to do fantasy/historical miniatures battles?  Look no further.

Do you like Star Wars but find the prequels and sequels disappointing?  Man of Destiny is the book series for you.

My 2nd edition Warhammer 40k resource page. Check out my other stuff at https://www.ahlloyd.com 
   
Made in us
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Denison, Iowa

Well, found a Black Friday sale I couldn't resist. Tisas 1911 pistol, $279. I've been interested in 1911s for some time, but couldn't justify the Gucci prices manufacturers want for them these days. Tisas isn't fancy at all, but the weapons are very close to original tolerances, it has a forged receiver and slide, and is known to reliably go bang. I think I might use this as an opportunity to polish a turd and pimp my gun.
   
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 cuda1179 wrote:
Well, found a Black Friday sale I couldn't resist. Tisas 1911 pistol, $279. I've been interested in 1911s for some time, but couldn't justify the Gucci prices manufacturers want for them these days. Tisas isn't fancy at all, but the weapons are very close to original tolerances, it has a forged receiver and slide, and is known to reliably go bang. I think I might use this as an opportunity to polish a turd and pimp my gun.


This is the first time I've even heard of that company.

Learn something new every day, I guess...

Want a better way to do fantasy/historical miniatures battles?  Look no further.

Do you like Star Wars but find the prequels and sequels disappointing?  Man of Destiny is the book series for you.

My 2nd edition Warhammer 40k resource page. Check out my other stuff at https://www.ahlloyd.com 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:On the Tommy Gun. In media we see them with a front grip.

Being such an early SMG (maybe the earliest?) was that also the original front/riot grip?


The model 1928 Thompson, the first manufactured in large numbers, had an integral foregrip attached to the receiver with a relatively thin steel plate. The simplified M1, developed in WW2, replaced it with a simple handguard, partly because it was another relatively complex piece and partly because that connector plate was fairly fragile by the standards of military-issue firearms.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:May have asked this before. But…

Assault Rifle magazines.

AK47 types have a bend. M16 type have an angled bottom.

What purpose does this serve, when others have straight magazines?


Like others said, the ideal curvature depends on the cartridge, but it also depends on the feed geometry of the firearm. Many 9mm submachine guns use straight magazines, but many use curved magazines; it just has to do with the angle at which they're designed to pick up a round and feed it into the chamber.

For the M16 in particular, the sudden, sharp angle is a byproduct of the AR15/M16 magazine well being originally designed for straight magazines- initially 25rd, then 20rd when military trials started to meet a weight limit. So, with a rectangular magazine well preventing an ideal curve from fitting, the decision was made to have the top of the 30rd M16 magazine be straight, then angle noticeably once it clears the magazine well.

This was not ideal for reliability and it took the US military a long, long time to sort out the kinks.

   
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Beast Coast

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
Well, found a Black Friday sale I couldn't resist. Tisas 1911 pistol, $279. I've been interested in 1911s for some time, but couldn't justify the Gucci prices manufacturers want for them these days. Tisas isn't fancy at all, but the weapons are very close to original tolerances, it has a forged receiver and slide, and is known to reliably go bang. I think I might use this as an opportunity to polish a turd and pimp my gun.


This is the first time I've even heard of that company.

Learn something new every day, I guess...


Tisas is a Turkish manufacturer. In addition to 1911 style pistols, they also manufacture a licensed copy of the Beretta 84BB (an older version of the Beretta Cheetah), called the Fatih.

   
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Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Turkey has a bunch of decent budget gun clone offerings. They're not the best, but for the price you can't complain. Better than Hi point at least.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
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Denison, Iowa

 Grey Templar wrote:
Turkey has a bunch of decent budget gun clone offerings. They're not the best, but for the price you can't complain. Better than Hi point at least.


LoL, "better than a Hi- Point" is the exact phrase I used to describe it to my brother.
   
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 Grey Templar wrote:
Turkey has a bunch of decent budget gun clone offerings. They're not the best, but for the price you can't complain. Better than Hi point at least.


I had a Turkish CZ75 clone that felt great in the hand but when you shot it was absolutely terrible. I think the term is "trigger slap" and it's the only time I've experienced anything like it. That experience soured me on Turkish stuff.

Want a better way to do fantasy/historical miniatures battles?  Look no further.

Do you like Star Wars but find the prequels and sequels disappointing?  Man of Destiny is the book series for you.

My 2nd edition Warhammer 40k resource page. Check out my other stuff at https://www.ahlloyd.com 
   
 
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