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 An Actual Englishman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Oh would you look at that. GW clarifies further what it shouldn't have had to in the first place. Man imagine how many more models we'd get out of GW if they didn't have to waste their time doing gak like this.

Tneva and the rest of the no da jump brigade you happy now?

Nope. Because problem still remains. Only OFFICIAL word currently is the beta rules which doesn't say clearly one way or other. Then we have posts from source which notes themselves they are not official. Thus if opponent wants to say "no" for my Da Jump I have no official source.

Unlike you I don't claim to know rule writers meaning better than they. And so far all we have from the rule writers is the beta rules which is very unclear on the matter which can't be used to prove either way.

Unofficial source does not proof make. I need proof if I want to be sure to be able to use Da Jump.

And btw I haven't claimed it's no for sure. What I have been saying it's not clear either way and can be read either way. I WANT it to be yes. I think it was intended to be yes. BUT RULES AS WRITTEN ARE UNCLEAR ON THE MATTER! And so far we have no official source clearing up meaning if I'm in enviroment where RAW is important unofficial house rules don't cut it. Expecting opponents to have to follow FB teams house rules is same as claiming they should follow my or your house rules as well.

OK. Some people aren't worth arguing with. You are one of those people.

You can wait for 'official' confirmation while the rest of us play the game. This community is unreal. Genuinely.

I really feel one of the problems on Dakka is we have a percentage of the community that are not really playing the game, just talking about it.

 Rismonite wrote:


I really feel one of the problems on Dakka is we have a percentage of the community that are not really playing the game, just talking about it.

Couldn't agree more.

Or people act completely differently on here compared to how they would IRL.

How are your guys' experiences with the Gargantuan Squiggoth?

I've seen it pop up in a few lists; I don't like that it doesn't have a "mobile fortress" style rule for itself, as the heavy guns that you have to pay for go to a 6+ if it ever moves (which, why wouldn't it...?). Add in the fact that those same heavy guns are entirely random in number of shots; its just... not fun to use. There's a difference between hoping you get more hits above average (Shoota Boyz), and knowing that you need to roll high on number of shots coupled with 6's to hit.

How about the [baby] Squiggoth?

I've always wanted to run a Snakebites Klan army, so squiggoths are natural fits.

fe40k wrote:
How are your guys' experiences with the Gargantuan Squiggoth?

I've seen it pop up in a few lists; I don't like that it doesn't have a "mobile fortress" style rule for itself, as the heavy guns that you have to pay for go to a 6+ if it ever moves (which, why wouldn't it...?). Add in the fact that those same heavy guns are entirely random in number of shots; its just... not fun to use. There's a difference between hoping you get more hits above average (Shoota Boyz), and knowing that you need to roll high on number of shots coupled with 6's to hit.

How about the [baby] Squiggoth?

I've always wanted to run a Snakebites Klan army, so squiggoths are natural fits.

I haven't gotten my gargantuan built and painted yet, so I can't tell you how that plays...but I've run a normal squiggoth a couple of times, and so far it's wound up getting shot to near-uselessness by the time it reaches the enemy...mind you, this was several months ago, when I was still pretty new with 8th, and I've played a lot more games since then...might have to try it again to see if it was chiefly a user-error problem

...that said, for some reason in that game I decided to stick a squad of flashgitz in the squiggoth...and they performed better than they ever have for me

hmm...I do feel like they'd work far better if you bring about 3 of them or something though...just bringing one, seems to make it a nice big meaty target for the enemy to focus on (which could also be a useful feature actually)...so by the time it hits the enemy line, if it makes it, it'll basically be a nob with an AP-3, D6 damage melee weapon...

I wish I could afford the Gargantuan Squiggoth, the Big Squiggoth looks so small (like a compact trukk), and the garg doesn't throw off aim.

I've used the Big Squiggoth, I will say the issue less people talk about is that it can't be repaired/healed and it is affected by venomous blades/ammo, which sucks against Dark-Eldar.
It also throws off aim, and really needs to sit behind in tall cover to survive the amount of dakka that will head its way.

I think it does complement a close combat unit (Nobz) quite well though, unlike the garg I wouldn't look at it as a melee unit with a shooting platform, so much as a trukk that should drop off and get stuck in with its passengers.
Unless of course your opponent doesn't have nasty melee, then I think you get the squiggoth engaged so it can't be shot at and have some tankbustas nestled inside.

Maybe someone has had a different experience though, I just tend to find, at least when I only bring one, they don't reach round 3 and beyond that often :(

I haven't actually played any squiggoths, but rules-wise they are almost identical to open topped battlewagons, except their melee is more powerful and they transport less. Therefore I would expect to perform them the same, which most likely results in one or two of them dying every turn.

If you bring enough (or mix them with battlewagons and nauts), you might be able to capitalize on their high damage attacks and mortal wounds to even very tough targets in close combat - something battlewagon can't do. In my opinion, this the reason why the gargantuan squiggoth does so well in tournaments, it can just eat something like Mortarion or Magnus alive. I assume a herd of smaller squiggoths does the same.

The howda rule also seems to favor shooty options, since you can shoot even when the transport gets stuck in combat. Maybe tank busta rokkit pistols are worth taking here, since they can shoot into combat, while the rest of the tankbustas shoots at other targets.
Big guns on BS5+ platforms aren't likely to hit anything anyways, so just buy the cheapest one (IIRC the cannon) and hope for lucky hits.

The sad part is that the small squiggoth is 210 points with a kannon, I don't think that's a justified price tag for a slightly more stompy battewagon.

 Jidmah wrote:

The sad part is that the small squiggoth is 210 points with a kannon, I don't think that's a justified price tag for a slightly more stompy battewagon.

The small squiggoth is 160 points without the optional heavy weapon, though. I think it is a decent alternative to a battle-wagon.

yeah, I wouldn't bother with weapons on a normal squiggoth, just try to get it in melee

pismakron wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

The sad part is that the small squiggoth is 210 points with a kannon, I don't think that's a justified price tag for a slightly more stompy battewagon.

The small squiggoth is 160 points without the optional heavy weapon, though. I think it is a decent alternative to a battle-wagon.

Ah, I wasn't aware it was reduced in CA. You still need to pay 5 for the CCW though. Considering the battewagon isn't very good, I would say the same for the squiggoth.

Yo, been playin the G-squig 15 + games now, here are my thoughts,

Needs the KFF or hes gone turn 1 - 2. Give it 2 Big zappa for cheapest loadout, assault wepons on shooting unit inside (i like a full 15 tankbustas with 4-5 bomb squiggs, i try to use the dakka stratagem every time they shoot too. The main goal is to get those 8 atcks into mele. Biggest issue I have had is moveing around tight terrain pieces and getting to units in building, if gargatuan creatures could 'destroy' terrain they lumbered through i would use him more, but still fun to play with as hes the best distraction carnifex in the game! Could be cheaper compared to how powerful other forgeworld stuff is. (brass scorpion!)

 Jidmah wrote:
rules-wise they are almost identical to open topped battlewagons, except their melee is more powerful and they transport less. Therefore I would expect to perform them the same, which most likely results in one or two of them dying every turn.

That's been my experience with the little Squig, Functionally the same if you're not carrying regular boyz, but the Squig is generally perceived as scarier than the other wagons on the board so get shot up first.

Not sure if it was commented already, but it's been mentioned on the DA thread that fly units ignore vertical distance when charging. So, if Stormboyz are up high, you will have a reduced, horizontal distance only, for them to make the charge

Well, you can now deep strike koptas on top of ruins and charge stuff below them.

I'M SO FETHING HAPPY CHINORKS ARE OPEN TOPPES NOW! MY KOPTA BOYZ ARE GONNA GIT DEM UMMIES GUD!!

On a tactical note I really like the idea of giving them Skorchas as well, let them fly up and roast screens and the like since they won't need to worry about BS allowing your Mounted Boyz to focus on other targets. Already planning on 3 squads of Tank Bustas in 3 of mine deepstriking in and lighting somebody up, maybe a squad of Burnas.

Can someone fill me in on the hype for the chinork? Sure having some deepstriking protection for tankbustas and flashgitz is nice but if I'm not mistaken its 161 points with the cheapest loadout? Thats a real hefty price tag just to make your opponent chew through 8 t5 wounds before shooting you. Id rather just suicide da jump a group of tankbustas forward after hiding them out of LOS. Did they get a price cut or something?

91 points for the Chinork if you keep it with Deff Guns and Skorchas. I was already planning an army themed around them before the FAQ and now they just got better.

 Jidmah wrote:
Well, you can now deep strike koptas on top of ruins and charge stuff below them.

I like that idea, but always been super reluctant about deff koptas. You could guarantee a turn 1 charge with Da Jump on storm boyz in a similar fashion, I think it'd be a lot more circumstantial but if you run boyz and storm boyz then it's an option.

 gmaleron wrote:
91 points for the Chinork if you keep it with Deff Guns and Skorchas. I was already planning an army themed around them before the FAQ and now they just got better.

drop the skorcha its not worth 17 pts for something that wont last long. take the big shoota for 6 pts and the chinork is then 80pts and cheaper then a trukk.
The best thing about a chinork is it doesn't have a damage profile and always moves 16in and advances 8in

The hope is I'll model them that way and they will be cheaper.when the Codex is out, was also thinking of rockets

chinork won't be in the codex though, forgeworld :/

https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/30741643_2013246645662631_1042334780829253208_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=a6dd5254855c2bb3959f100ac08a0518&oe=5B694CD0

Idk if it can get any more "official" than this. If you don't consider the Warhammer 40000 facebook page official then YMMV but I'm going to take their word for it.

TL;DR The FAQ didn't change Da Jump.

 ZoBo wrote:
chinork won't be in the codex though, forgeworld :/

Have a Krieg army im good lol

And yeah Da Jump isn t coming from reserves, people are just overthinking it

 Weazel wrote:
https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/30741643_2013246645662631_1042334780829253208_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=a6dd5254855c2bb3959f100ac08a0518&oe=5B694CD0

Idk if it can get any more "official" than this. If you don't consider the Warhammer 40000 facebook page official then YMMV but I'm going to take their word for it.

TL;DR The FAQ didn't change Da Jump.

Yeah, this is official. Because they said that the rules team made the pic.

 Weazel wrote:
https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/30741643_2013246645662631_1042334780829253208_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=a6dd5254855c2bb3959f100ac08a0518&oe=5B694CD0

Idk if it can get any more "official" than this. If you don't consider the Warhammer 40000 facebook page official then YMMV but I'm going to take their word for it.

TL;DR The FAQ didn't change Da Jump.

Eh fb team itself says they are not official and that's a GOOD thing. Even semi professional company knows to keep official ones to one source. Only amateurs put that on multiple places.

You really want to carry with you rulebook, faq for rulebook, codex, faq for codex, index, faq for index, chapter approved or two, maybe faqs to them AND direct links to fb posts and comments to be able to play?

If game goes that way i take new codex every 5 years and no faqs instead. That would be preferable. At least then i know rules. Not everybody even use fb yet it should be required?

tneva82 wrote:
Eh fb team itself says they are not official and that's a GOOD thing. Even semi professional company knows to keep official ones to one source. Only amateurs put that on multiple places.

You really want to carry with you rulebook, faq for rulebook, codex, faq for codex, index, faq for index, chapter approved or two, maybe faqs to them AND direct links to fb posts and comments to be able to play?

If game goes that way i take new codex every 5 years and no faqs instead. That would be preferable. At least then i know rules. Not everybody even use fb yet it should be required?

You don't need everything you've mentioned to play. You can play without Da Jump. This is just for you to use if your opponent decides to be "that guy".

There's also the pic I've included in this post.

Tneva, if you think GW are so awful at writing rules and balancing the game you know where the door is mate. Vote with your feet. Stop giving them money to continue making a game you think is poorly designed.

SPEAKING OF TACTICS AND RULES THAT DON'T NEED TO BE CLARIFIED ANYMORE:

I've been slowly increasing my Weirdboy count and conveniently started painting my third one just as the rule of three came in (beta rules in effect in my scene). Do people bother with 'Ead Banger on their third Weirdboy? Or is the focus on having a second of Da Jump for redundancy?

How many painboys to weirdboys? I've been running two weirdboys and one painboy but will I need more?

Also one thing I've been experimenting with is running 2 mobs of 20 sluggas and 10 shootas, and 2 mobs of just 10 shootas. Honestly haven't had much experience with them but one of the main advantages I've found is that it's surprisingly flexible. If I need a third reasonably sized mob of boyz I can mob up the 2 mobs of shootas for a 20 boy unit, or if I want a big ole mob of boyz I can just start mobbing up shoota boyz onto the large mixed mob.
I started doing this as I was running 2x 30 sluggas and 1x30 shootas but found it very difficult to get even 20 sluggas into melee, let alone 30.

Any thoughts/suggestions/experience on the matter?

'ead banger is almost always inferior to smite. The only reason to cast it is if you somehow ended up with a T3 characters as closest model. Unless you feel like trolling an eldar player or really want to have Celestine's head explode, a redundant source of Warpath is probably better.

tneva82 wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/30741643_2013246645662631_1042334780829253208_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=a6dd5254855c2bb3959f100ac08a0518&oe=5B694CD0

Idk if it can get any more "official" than this. If you don't consider the Warhammer 40000 facebook page official then YMMV but I'm going to take their word for it.

TL;DR The FAQ didn't change Da Jump.

Eh fb team itself says they are not official and that's a GOOD thing. Even semi professional company knows to keep official ones to one source. Only amateurs put that on multiple places.

You really want to carry with you rulebook, faq for rulebook, codex, faq for codex, index, faq for index, chapter approved or two, maybe faqs to them AND direct links to fb posts and comments to be able to play?

If game goes that way i take new codex every 5 years and no faqs instead. That would be preferable. At least then i know rules. Not everybody even use fb yet it should be required?

to be fair these are beta rules aka rules in progress that need to be tested and may likely change. They are technically not official yet regardless if the majority of the player base considers them official. The only other experience we as players have had with GW issuing beta rules is through forgeworld who routinely used posts and email reply’s about beta rules and changes. They don’t officially update the beta rules until the testing period is over and it becomes official. Which won’t happen until September. So a Facebook post is actually in line with thier beta rules testing responses and feedback. The bottom line is the community team stated the clarification is official and directly from the rules team and I’m fairly sure every player, tournament, and thier mom will be playing it that way.

With his clarification I like the rule, however my only feedback is drop pods are utterly pointless now and ridiculously overpriced as well as many units whose previous schtick was mainly tactical reserved based deepstrike. What once was an extremely powerful ability is now just nice option to have on some units for late turn objective grabs and an ok movement option on some slow movements short ranged units.

Just got back from a convention, and picked up an absolute great deal on stormboyz and 18 bikes.

12 of those bikes are built, 3 with powerklaws and 9 as regular shoota/choppa. I have an additional 9 NOS.

I realize bikes aren't great yet (please codex, validate my purchase), but how should I build the NOS ones out? Should I just be waiting until codex drop at this point?

I'm thinking that I can throw the powerklaw bikers into a unit of nob bikers, and leave one in the maxed unit.

After that, maybe flesh out a full nob biker squad, or make some characters (mek, warboss?).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ajax_xaja wrote:
Just got back from a convention, and picked up an absolute great deal on stormboyz and 18 bikes.

12 of those bikes are built, 3 with powerklaws and 9 as regular shoota/choppa. I have an additional 9 NOS.

I realize bikes aren't great yet (please codex, validate my purchase), but how should I build the NOS ones out? Should I just be waiting until codex drop at this point?

I'm thinking that I can throw the powerklaw bikers into a unit of nob bikers, and leave one in the maxed unit of bikes.

After that, maybe flesh out a full nob biker squad with shoota/flamers, or make some characters (mek, warboss?).

gungo wrote:
to be fair these are beta rules aka rules in progress that need to be tested and may likely change. They are technically not official yet regardless if the majority of the player base considers them official. The only other experience we as players have had with GW issuing beta rules is through forgeworld who routinely used posts and email reply’s about beta rules and changes. They don’t officially update the beta rules until the testing period is over and it becomes official. Which won’t happen until September. So a Facebook post is actually in line with thier beta rules testing responses and feedback. The bottom line is the community team stated the clarification is official and directly from the rules team and I’m fairly sure every player, tournament, and thier mom will be playing it that way.

With his clarification I like the rule, however my only feedback is drop pods are utterly pointless now and ridiculously overpriced as well as many units whose previous schtick was mainly tactical reserved based deepstrike. What once was an extremely powerful ability is now just nice option to have on some units for late turn objective grabs and an ok movement option on some slow movements short ranged units.

Yes but even changes for beta rules needs to be in one direction. Otherwise we get into situation where you need 3-5 books, 3+ faq's and then direct links to bunch of FB posts and comments in your phone when not every player(I would even wager majority) don't even USE FB to follow GW. That way madness lie and if that's how GW expects then they prove they don't even PRETEND to act like professional company. Even semi-professionals know better than that!

And funny you mentioned FW. Those emails are yet another self-admitted unofficial comments and "HIWPI" replies...