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6 wraiths (18 attacks) have better DMG output than 10 lychguard (20) , DMG 2 winning over AP-3 and 2 more attacks, even with MWBD and reroll 1s to wound for the lychguard.

18 wounds T5/3++ is in itself more resilient than 20 wounds T5/4++ , or not much different. Does he mean to play them for their RP?

Furthermore lychguard need to get closer to their targets than wraiths, because if they fail they are sitting ducks waggling along 5" a turn, can't advance 15" through things, and charge like wraiths. This makes them vulnerable to chaff/screening or they would need to wait a turn before they jump.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
To be fair..... Necrons cannot win in a straight up fight. They are overcosted and GW admits that (hence the comfirmed points drops in CA). So you might as well go for tricks and gimmicks...

Do you have a source on GW confirming that?

Necronplayer wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
To be fair..... Necrons cannot win in a straight up fight. They are overcosted and GW admits that (hence the comfirmed points drops in CA). So you might as well go for tricks and gimmicks...

Do you have a source on GW confirming that?

He is the source, iirc.
Don't expect anymore information than that, apparently due to non disclosure agreements.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
To be fair..... Necrons cannot win in a straight up fight. They are overcosted and GW admits that (hence the comfirmed points drops in CA). So you might as well go for tricks and gimmicks...

Out of curiosity, where did they confirm the points drops? i'd like to read up on it if possible.

 iGuy91 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
To be fair..... Necrons cannot win in a straight up fight. They are overcosted and GW admits that (hence the comfirmed points drops in CA). So you might as well go for tricks and gimmicks...

Out of curiosity, where did they confirm the points drops? i'd like to read up on it if possible.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/5040/752626.page#10126530

We've been through it before, to the point where he became rather agitated and said he was done posting about it because he didn't like the idea of not being immediately taken at his word.

I wouldn't say it's particularly worth pursuing.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
To be fair..... Necrons cannot win in a straight up fight. They are overcosted and GW admits that (hence the comfirmed points drops in CA). So you might as well go for tricks and gimmicks...

Out of curiosity, where did they confirm the points drops? i'd like to read up on it if possible.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/5040/752626.page#10126530

We've been through it before, to the point where he became rather agitated and said he was done posting about it because he didn't like the idea of not being immediately taken at his word.

I wouldn't say it's particularly worth pursuing.

To be fair, if it is due to a NDA he can't be expected to give us more details or his sources.
We'll just have to wait.

Not trying to stir the pot. Figured there was a source online that had the rumors out he was referencing. No big deal.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
To be fair..... Necrons cannot win in a straight up fight. They are overcosted and GW admits that (hence the comfirmed points drops in CA). So you might as well go for tricks and gimmicks...

Out of curiosity, where did they confirm the points drops? i'd like to read up on it if possible.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/5040/752626.page#10126530

We've been through it before, to the point where he became rather agitated and said he was done posting about it because he didn't like the idea of not being immediately taken at his word.

I wouldn't say it's particularly worth pursuing.

To be fair, if it is due to a NDA he can't be expected to give us more details or his sources.
We'll just have to wait.

The first time, I don't think I ever said he was wrong or that I expected him to be more open; the only thing I pointed out was how he seemed unwilling to accept that such little evidence naturally breeds doubt, and then he started getting worked up.

Even now I'm not contradicting him, simply pointing out that if you're already skeptical there's not much point in looking for clarification, both because it's all he currently has, and his past posts seem to imply at best a contempt for doubt.

Ofc it isn't 100% in your eyes. But all the signs point to that(most resold army in FB, Necron only players abandoning it, all top players have it in bottom 3 factions - GW heard all this at Nova) plus my very trusted source outright confirmed it.

Do you think we'll see big changes to the Tesseract Vault? I think limiting it to a 0-1 option in matched play would be an easy fix without upping the cost of it massively, I think its pretty well costed at the moment.

IDK if straight up point drops would be enough. It would have to be pretty significant across most the board, and that might just make the army too OP.

Personally I'd just like a boost to our Anti-Tank guns, but that is just me.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Ofc it isn't 100% in your eyes. But all the signs point to that(most resold army in FB, Necron only players abandoning it, all top players have it in bottom 3 factions - GW heard all this at Nova) plus my very trusted source outright confirmed it.

I just want to know what else your trusted source got right. Yeah it is likely stuff will get price cuts, but if it by a huge amount obviously we don't want to be disappointed.

 p5freak wrote:
So thats how the guys look like who failed at writing a decent codex.

I had the same thought. They should have pixelated their faces and modulated their voices for their many crimes against the Necrontyr...

 Towenaar wrote:
Do you think we'll see big changes to the Tesseract Vault? I think limiting it to a 0-1 option in matched play would be an easy fix without upping the cost of it massively, I think its pretty well costed at the moment.

I'm almost certain something will change about it... Which is annoying as 1 TV is perfectly fine, 2 is really good and 3 is broken (not OP. It auto-wins or auto-loses every game). The problem is ofc the 3 vault list in team tournaments. Because the best list in team tournaments is a broken list - you pick your matchups so you just sent this list against your opponent's list which is weak to it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Ofc it isn't 100% in your eyes. But all the signs point to that(most resold army in FB, Necron only players abandoning it, all top players have it in bottom 3 factions - GW heard all this at Nova) plus my very trusted source outright confirmed it.

I just want to know what else your trusted source got right. Yeah it is likely stuff will get price cuts, but if it by a huge amount obviously we don't want to be disappointed.

I don't trust my source because of previous correct leaks. I have other reasons - there is no chance in hell my source is lying, let's just put it that way.

 adamsouza wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
So thats how the guys look like who failed at writing a decent codex.

I had the same thought. They should have pixelated their faces and modulated their voices for their many crimes against the Necrontyr...

The whole video I was foolishly expecting them to say something new I hadn't heard or thought of myself before, but obviously that didn't happen. Even the lore they talked about was just rehashes of what's been the Necron story since 5th edition; like, the Thousand Sons codex for example has really wonky rules that severely punish you for trying to make a proper Thousand Sons army, but at least the lore section is incredible and has a lot of cool, new stuff. The Necron codex is just phoned in on every front.

(re. points drops in CA)

On the down side, that's going to be a loooooooong wait between the FAQ and Chapter Approved.

I am really liking the idea of the Resurrection Orb being able to resurrect (by allowing RP rolls) a wiped out unit. Totally fluffy and suitably powerful for a 30p one use item. Would love if that idea made it into CA.

So...our resident Tau player at my FLGS is getting a riptide. How do we deal with it? Yet more destroyers? Keep in mind that we tend to play 1k games, so no murder blobs of 6 destroyers or 10 lychguard in a monolith or something.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...our resident Tau player at my FLGS is getting a riptide. How do we deal with it? Yet more destroyers? Keep in mind that we tend to play 1k games, so no murder blobs of 6 destroyers or 10 lychguard in a monolith or something.

If you get first turn, a DDA should make nice work of it

torblind wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...our resident Tau player at my FLGS is getting a riptide. How do we deal with it? Yet more destroyers? Keep in mind that we tend to play 1k games, so no murder blobs of 6 destroyers or 10 lychguard in a monolith or something.

If you get first turn, a DDA should make nice work of it

And if I don't get first turn, don't have a DDA or he does the smart thing and hides it?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

torblind wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...our resident Tau player at my FLGS is getting a riptide. How do we deal with it? Yet more destroyers? Keep in mind that we tend to play 1k games, so no murder blobs of 6 destroyers or 10 lychguard in a monolith or something.

If you get first turn, a DDA should make nice work of it

And if I don't get first turn, don't have a DDA or he does the smart thing and hides it?

if he hides it he cant shoot with it.

Depends on what kind of terrain you play with of course. Wraiths might make it up there eventually. Nephrek destroyers probably get one good chance to take him down, but it'll be against 3++. Remember it'll be worthwhile to bring him down one bracket too. Suddenly he's hitting on 5s. Or burning through his CPs. The Riptide while strong, isn't the auto-take it used to be.

torblind wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

torblind wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...our resident Tau player at my FLGS is getting a riptide. How do we deal with it? Yet more destroyers? Keep in mind that we tend to play 1k games, so no murder blobs of 6 destroyers or 10 lychguard in a monolith or something.

If you get first turn, a DDA should make nice work of it

And if I don't get first turn, don't have a DDA or he does the smart thing and hides it?

if he hides it he cant shoot with it.

Depends on what kind of terrain you play with of course. Wraiths might make it up there eventually. Nephrek destroyers probably get one good chance to take him down, but it'll be against 3++. Remember it'll be worthwhile to bring him down one bracket too. Suddenly he's hitting on 5s. Or burning through his CPs. The Riptide while strong, isn't the auto-take it used to be.

Can't he move and shoot with it though? Or is that a bad idea with riptides? I'm not too familiar with Tau this edition.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

torblind wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

torblind wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...our resident Tau player at my FLGS is getting a riptide. How do we deal with it? Yet more destroyers? Keep in mind that we tend to play 1k games, so no murder blobs of 6 destroyers or 10 lychguard in a monolith or something.

If you get first turn, a DDA should make nice work of it

And if I don't get first turn, don't have a DDA or he does the smart thing and hides it?

if he hides it he cant shoot with it.

Depends on what kind of terrain you play with of course. Wraiths might make it up there eventually. Nephrek destroyers probably get one good chance to take him down, but it'll be against 3++. Remember it'll be worthwhile to bring him down one bracket too. Suddenly he's hitting on 5s. Or burning through his CPs. The Riptide while strong, isn't the auto-take it used to be.

Can't he move and shoot with it though? Or is that a bad idea with riptides? I'm not too familiar with Tau this edition.

BS 4+. It's main weapon is a heavy weapon, so 5+ if it moves. It doesn't seem that scary on paper, I think I played Tau twice or maybe three times since the drop of 8th though. Just keep removing anti-infantry from your list until it starts hurting and then replace all that with ranged anti-vehicle. I wouldn't want any true melee units against Tau, might as well ignore their advantage at Overwatch and beat them at their own game.

I'd take something like 1 Cloaktek, 2x6 Destroyers, 1 Doomsday Ark, spend what's left on Scarab Swarms, that's a pretty brutal 1k list. Once you get rid of enemy anti-tank all you have to do is take cover with your Destroyers and slowly eradicate them, 3 W T5 2+ Sv regenerating 6 W/turn is impossible to get rid of in the mid game for D1 AP- weapons. I don't think our Troops can compete with Tau troops very effectively and Destroyers with their 18 wounds T5 are way easier to get Reanimation on compared to 10 W Immortals with T4. If your opponents start spamming anti-vehicle just switch to Scarab Swarm/Warrior spam backed by a Ghost Ark every couple of games to keep them on their toes. How about you post your collection so we can help you figure out what you can actually do, I'm geussing since you said "what if I don't have a DDA" and "1k pts" you still don't have a large collection? What do we have to work with?

 vict0988 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

torblind wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

torblind wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...our resident Tau player at my FLGS is getting a riptide. How do we deal with it? Yet more destroyers? Keep in mind that we tend to play 1k games, so no murder blobs of 6 destroyers or 10 lychguard in a monolith or something.

If you get first turn, a DDA should make nice work of it

And if I don't get first turn, don't have a DDA or he does the smart thing and hides it?

if he hides it he cant shoot with it.

Depends on what kind of terrain you play with of course. Wraiths might make it up there eventually. Nephrek destroyers probably get one good chance to take him down, but it'll be against 3++. Remember it'll be worthwhile to bring him down one bracket too. Suddenly he's hitting on 5s. Or burning through his CPs. The Riptide while strong, isn't the auto-take it used to be.

Can't he move and shoot with it though? Or is that a bad idea with riptides? I'm not too familiar with Tau this edition.

BS 4+. It's main weapon is a heavy weapon, so 5+ if it moves. It doesn't seem that scary on paper, I think I played Tau twice or maybe three times since the drop of 8th though. Just keep removing anti-infantry from your list until it starts hurting and then replace all that with ranged anti-vehicle. I wouldn't want any true melee units against Tau, might as well ignore their advantage at Overwatch and beat them at their own game.

I'd take something like 1 Cloaktek, 2x6 Destroyers, 1 Doomsday Ark, spend what's left on Scarab Swarms, that's a pretty brutal 1k list. Once you get rid of enemy anti-tank all you have to do is take cover with your Destroyers and slowly eradicate them, 3 W T5 2+ Sv regenerating 6 W/turn is impossible to get rid of in the mid game for D1 AP- weapons. I don't think our Troops can compete with Tau troops very effectively and Destroyers with their 18 wounds T5 are way easier to get Reanimation on compared to 10 W Immortals with T4. If your opponents start spamming anti-vehicle just switch to Scarab Swarm/Warrior spam backed by a Ghost Ark every couple of games to keep them on their toes. How about you post your collection so we can help you figure out what you can actually do, I'm geussing since you said "what if I don't have a DDA" and "1k pts" you still don't have a large collection? What do we have to work with?

Also the Deceiver is great for bringing units across the board without suffering from the long range of the fire warriors. I played a Mephrit Silver Tide against Tau once with great success, no destroyers and no DDAs but had 6 wraiths. Deceiver brought warriors into rapid fire range for 40 shots S4/AP-2. This ate through the Riptide in 2 turns.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/4230/752626.page#10027345

Just took on spacewolves + guard with:

CCB
Cryptek

3x10 Immortals

Deciever
2x Tesseract Arcs

Was a super close game near the end. I forgot to use stratagems to case a free power a couple of turns.

Time's Arrow was a superstar on t1 and t2, popping characters when applicable.

I kitted out my powers a bit poorly, but still did fine.

In the end I had 1 full immortal squad, and both HQs alive, with a second immortal squad down to a single model. Opponent called it after CCB charged and killed Pask, he was left with two guard squads.

Super fun.

 vict0988 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

torblind wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

torblind wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...our resident Tau player at my FLGS is getting a riptide. How do we deal with it? Yet more destroyers? Keep in mind that we tend to play 1k games, so no murder blobs of 6 destroyers or 10 lychguard in a monolith or something.

If you get first turn, a DDA should make nice work of it

And if I don't get first turn, don't have a DDA or he does the smart thing and hides it?

if he hides it he cant shoot with it.

Depends on what kind of terrain you play with of course. Wraiths might make it up there eventually. Nephrek destroyers probably get one good chance to take him down, but it'll be against 3++. Remember it'll be worthwhile to bring him down one bracket too. Suddenly he's hitting on 5s. Or burning through his CPs. The Riptide while strong, isn't the auto-take it used to be.

Can't he move and shoot with it though? Or is that a bad idea with riptides? I'm not too familiar with Tau this edition.

BS 4+. It's main weapon is a heavy weapon, so 5+ if it moves. It doesn't seem that scary on paper, I think I played Tau twice or maybe three times since the drop of 8th though. Just keep removing anti-infantry from your list until it starts hurting and then replace all that with ranged anti-vehicle. I wouldn't want any true melee units against Tau, might as well ignore their advantage at Overwatch and beat them at their own game.

I'd take something like 1 Cloaktek, 2x6 Destroyers, 1 Doomsday Ark, spend what's left on Scarab Swarms, that's a pretty brutal 1k list. Once you get rid of enemy anti-tank all you have to do is take cover with your Destroyers and slowly eradicate them, 3 W T5 2+ Sv regenerating 6 W/turn is impossible to get rid of in the mid game for D1 AP- weapons. I don't think our Troops can compete with Tau troops very effectively and Destroyers with their 18 wounds T5 are way easier to get Reanimation on compared to 10 W Immortals with T4. If your opponents start spamming anti-vehicle just switch to Scarab Swarm/Warrior spam backed by a Ghost Ark every couple of games to keep them on their toes. How about you post your collection so we can help you figure out what you can actually do, I'm geussing since you said "what if I don't have a DDA" and "1k pts" you still don't have a large collection? What do we have to work with?

Huh, could have sworn that it had assault weapons.
I could field the cloaktek and destroyers, but the DA is still nowhere near finished. I do have one, but I only field finished models. I should really get my backlog cleared -_-
Anyway,
I have
1 Lord
1 Overlord
1 Chronotek
1 cloaktek
1 destroyer lord
1 nightbringer
80 warrriors
10 gauss immortals
5 tesla immortals
9 swarms
6 flayed ones
10 scytheguard (5 of them pariahs, 5 unpainted)
5 shieldguard
4 wraiths (2 of them being painted)
6 destroyers
2 heavy destroyers
10 deathmarks
1 nightscythe
1 monolith
1 annihilation barge
1 ghost ark
1 doomsday ark (still waiting assembly, which will take a while, because the Arks are a bitch to work with and I'd rather get the infantry done.)
1 deceiver

I could totally field more than 1k points. Its just that most players at my FLGS are just starting, so they tend to ask for 1k point games.

I play against Tau a lot, so a couple notes for you:

- Kill shield drones first. Bring all the fire power you want, but if you don't cut those drones down, you'll never kill the riptides until it's too late.

- Riptides can take a bit of wargear that allows the to move and fire heavies without penalty.

- While they are BS4 on paper, it's not difficult for them to get to BS3 with rerolls through various abilities.

- Don't under estimate mass fire warriors backed up by a cadre.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
I play against Tau a lot, so a couple notes for you:

- Kill shield drones first. Bring all the fire power you want, but if you don't cut those drones down, you'll never kill the riptides until it's too late.

- Riptides can take a bit of wargear that allows the to move and fire heavies without penalty.

- While they are BS4 on paper, it's not difficult for them to get to BS3 with rerolls through various abilities.

- Don't under estimate mass fire warriors backed up by a cadre.

Yeah, I played against him yesterday (no riptide, thankfully. Hasn't arrived yet), and whilst he did make a few mistakes (forgot Stealth suits can fly, did savior protocols completely wrong, etc. After the game I had to look that up on forums to see what was going on), he did get the Firewarrior combo right. They can fire a lot of shots at a surprisingly long range.
He had that drone that increases pulse weapon range by 6" + fireblade dude + 10 Firewarriors. He can fire 30 pulse rifle shots at 18". After nearly killing my destroyers (which just arrived and blew up his crisis suits. Had to land close because we were playing Cloak and Shadows), I pretty much went "yeah, nope" and moved them 24" away from the firewarriors so I could regain some losses and take potshots at them.

I think the Target Lock is the wargear that lets them move and fire heavy weapons; one of the basic Battlesuit support upgrades Tau can take, so not exactly a rarity either.

So my apologies if this was covered elsewhere, but the wife just surprised me with a box of Lychguard/Praetorians. I eventually plan on getting at least 1 unit of both because I love a good fluffy army on display, but for now my army is still slowly growing, so I need to get what the better of the two to the table.

So wise members of Dakka, which unit should I build it up as? I'm personally thinking Praetorians with the RoC, for the extra move and shoot. Plus the Fly keyword is good to have.