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I LOVE the Black widow tank. I am still kicking myself for not buying one when they were available. The beauty of it is in the simplicity of the design. You could literally make this thing using only three distinct sprues. On sprue one: Top of the turret and the main gun. Sprue two: Bottom of the turret and side weapons. Sprue three: One leg, and a part of the "waist" area ( this sprue would be repeated 4 times).

Seriously, if Mark added the Stug, the Black Widow, and some resin upgrade packs this would give enough variation for a decent civil war setting for a game.

I could see the an army consisting of:

1. a single Leviathan, or two Black widows
2.two to three Stugs or APC's
3. 2-5 squads of Stormtroopers/Valkir.

Also, what was the name of that mini-leviathan Mark had planned? Was it the Paladin? I wouldn't mind seeing that too.

I would like to see big stuff too, but that doesn't seem viable. Flesh out the universe, make some rules, Like said before a civil war, or 2 houses fighting over rare resources on a small planet.

It would be interesting to have the 2 factions (or houses) have 2 different doctrines, for example one house has lots of money and uses a lot of valkir and Odin and Loki keilerkopf's while the other has more troops (like imp. guard versus space marines) the 15mm leviathans maybe with an upgrade sprue (with different shoulders and hem?) could be used similar to dreadnaughts.

Maybe create a resource that is as important in your setting as the spice was in Dune. "The spice must flow!"

 Jehan-reznor wrote:


Maybe create a resource that is as important in your setting as the spice was in Dune. "The spice must flow!"

Skulls

I use giant skull piles as my objectives in 40k, I mean what else could all these diverse factions all want so much as to go to war?

Skulls



Anyway, looking at the industry as fan and outsider I can only think of one large, successful company that sells minis without a game to drive sales and that's Reaper.

(Yes I know they have CAV and Warlord and y'know in 10+ I have never seen nor heard of anyone anywhere playing either).

But their strength is in diversity, their metal line (and bones lately) has something for everyone, from realistic middle ages, to Tolkienesque fantasy, grim dark over the top stuff.

To which they've added cowboys, astronauts, aliens, steampunk and what ever else is popping up this month. So whatever mini or RPG game you play Reaper probably has you covered.

A plastic-based company can't offer that kind of diversity. They need people to buy in bulk and while I might like a kit enough to buy one on its own merits, I need a game to make me buy 10 kits.

This also means that kits have to offer simplicity and options. If I'm going to build 10 of the same kit I need simpler assemblies than Mark's kits have (the APC scares me) but with personalization options so my APC/Leviathan/whatever is MINE and not a cookie-cutter copy. For someone like me with multiple bitz boxes and a closet full of kits to cannablize it's not a problem but for other modelers...

Personalization is something Dreamforge actually does do well, I love that the female troopers had multiple head options and rifles and then another kit of nothing but alternate heads and arms. They really did plan ahead with the Leviathan making all the weapons switchable. That's the sort of thing that gives them an edge.

From a design and production perspective, what is harder to create, a plastic infantry squad box with approximately 12 guys (three or four sprues worth), or a vehicle of a size that would fit on an equivalent number of sprues?

The infantry, by far.

Render one, re-pose 2 times (4 sprues of 3 each), and iterate heads & weapons. Easy!

The vehicle needs a lot more work, especially if it is an armored skeleton like a Leviathan.

I don't know why everyone keeps asking for resin. Isn't Mark trying to go TO plastic. He could do one sprue for troop alterations and one for leviathans and be done. More costly sure, but time saving once the moods are done.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I LOVE the Black widow tank. I am still kicking myself for not buying one when they were available. The beauty of it is in the simplicity of the design. You could literally make this thing using only three distinct sprues. On sprue one: Top of the turret and the main gun. Sprue two: Bottom of the turret and side weapons. Sprue three: One leg, and a part of the "waist" area ( this sprue would be repeated 4 times).

Seriously, if Mark added the Stug, the Black Widow, and some resin upgrade packs this would give enough variation for a decent civil war setting for a game.

I don't think I've seen the Black Widow tank concept, do you have a pic?

I agree do the Black Widow and Stug in resin that will give a boost in sales and drum up interest for the gaming communities.

 RiTides wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
I LOVE the Black widow tank. I am still kicking myself for not buying one when they were available. The beauty of it is in the simplicity of the design. You could literally make this thing using only three distinct sprues. On sprue one: Top of the turret and the main gun. Sprue two: Bottom of the turret and side weapons. Sprue three: One leg, and a part of the "waist" area ( this sprue would be repeated 4 times).

Seriously, if Mark added the Stug, the Black Widow, and some resin upgrade packs this would give enough variation for a decent civil war setting for a game.

I don't think I've seen the Black Widow tank concept, do you have a pic?

There is a picture of the old, OOP resin version on the previous page. Basically, imagine a very large tank turret mounted to 4 large mechanical spider legs. Basically a walking tank.

Ah got it, didn't realize what that was

Mark looks like he's gone into the bat cave to figure out his next step, but with the amount of feedback posted with just an inkling here, I think it's safe to say Dakka will be here to support whatever that step is

You bet we will. Honestly, this is the first wargame outside 40k that I've actually been excited about.

I know a lot of people groan about larger resin/restic models, but honestly if you want to get something out NOW it is the way to go. I would buy Leviathan upgrade kits, more leviathans to put them on, and Black Widows the moment they are available.

In my opinion, if I need to proxy something I'd rather proxy infantry than vehicles.

 RiTides wrote:
I don't think I've seen the Black Widow tank concept, do you have a pic?

Who has a quick thumb and can google "Dreamforge black widow tank?" *THIS GUY!*



You're welcome. Next time, please use the search feature.

Looks like something that could be pretty easily done in resin rather than plastic. Just 4 of the same legs, a quad-hip joint thingy, top turret and maybe a couple of different cannon barrels?

No no no resin! No no no no no! As Theophony says Mark is trying to move AWAY from resin, and I'd rather wait longer than have to deal with carcinogenic specialist materials. I've got two small children, and it's hard enough to make the home space safe with only plastic.

Aren't there already a ton of resin vehicles on the market? Plastic is what got me to care about Dreamforge in the first place, and well-done plastics are what make me return again and again to find out what is coming out next. Resin would just break that habit.

Well it shouldn't be too bad for plastic either just 4 copies of a leg sprue and the turret could probably fit with a top and bottom half all in 1 sprue unless it's a really huge model

Even a mixed media kit with 4 leg sprues and 6 mini-gun sprues would be a huge cost saver, I think.

There are other alternative than metal or resin and plastic doesn’t need to be HIPS.

Give that DFG is positioned as a boutique manufacturer, it actually needs to be HIPS and/or resin.

All this talk of the Black Widow REALLY makes me want one now. I hope to find an old resin one on ebay.

Failing that, I think I could kit-bash one. Tank turret is easy enough, just need to find the right set of legs, perhaps just craft one and cast it myself.

I just posted the price increase on my blog and need to send an email to the supply chain regarding the increase. http://dreamforge-games.blogspot.com/2016/01/dreamforge-games-price-increase.html

I love all the feedback I am getting, thank you! I assure you I am reading every post.

On the current topic:

Vehicles are a tough nut , you sell about half what you would if you release an infantry kit and the upfront cost for HIPS is pretty high. Most vehicles will come in at 5-6 sprues Just to do your initial minimum run and have them delivered to the US you are looking at needing about $80k investment, where an infantry kit that sells faster into this market can be delivered with a $40-$45K initial investment.

So, are you totally opposed to resin then?

Price increase looks fine - only one that jumps out is the stormtrooper accessory set, holy crap . But the rest are really reasonable, imo!

The price increases look like ordinary inflation. Except the APC kit; that looks like a GW price increase.

The changes seem perfectly reasonable, and nothing has become unafordable

Had me worried about price increases, but all are reasonable, so carry on


Edit: also wasn't there originally another trooper type in metal that didn't transition over?

 Theophony wrote:
Had me worried about price increases, but all are reasonable, so carry on


Edit: also wasn't there originally another trooper type in metal that didn't transition over?

There was the Kriegsmarine from the initial KickStarter, but they're primarily different facemasks and torsos (edit: and backpacks) to my untrained eye:



The price increases don't seem that awful IMO. Only ones that jump out is the APC and the accessory set. In the case of the latter, honestly, as far as one of those can go I'm not sure it's really that bad. You don't need one per box of 20; that thing will stretch for a while. The APC is sadface, but I still think it's decent buy for a very nice Land Raider-sized kit.

What happened with the WGF prices? Last time I bought their WW2 kits, they were $22. Still, they're probably cheaper than the prices Warlord will raise them to.

Darn it.

 Krinsath wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
Had me worried about price increases, but all are reasonable, so carry on


Edit: also wasn't there originally another trooper type in metal that didn't transition over?

There was the Kriegsmarine from the initial KickStarter, but they're primarily different facemasks and torsos (edit: and backpacks) to my untrained eye:

Spoiler:

Image swiped from brueckenkopf-online

The price increases don't seem that awful IMO. Only ones that jump out is the APC and the accessory set. In the case of the latter, honestly, as far as one of those can go I'm not sure it's really that bad. You don't need one per box of 20; that thing will stretch for a while. The APC is sadface, but I still think it's decent buy for a very nice Land Raider-sized kit.

I have the Panzerjeagers, they are feminized Kriegsmarine, except the breast plate and back pack are not there, the smooth armor, made for the female legs and buttocks, the helmet/mask were kept as they were too cool to trash, and the smaller, smoother shoulder guards got put in the box with the ladies.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
The price increases look like ordinary inflation. Except the APC kit; that looks like a GW price increase.

Yeah, that thing was already priced out of what I would pay but eek.. Oh well :(

Sad about the WGF increases.. Their kits are decent and they've got many things that work well as substitutes for other purposes (cannons, horses, etc etc). Such is life I guess :/