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Mordians can be fun. Theyve got some unique mechanics, and are certainly worth playing, especially outside of a tournament setting.
Though you might run into some issues getting reinforcements, as they just went OOP... :(

not to worried made a rather healthy purchase of em a few years on ebay came with various heavy and special weapons regular dudes and sgts and commanders. plus a baneblade and a few other tanks...so yea im ok

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Spoiler:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

420th wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
What are the benefits of a Chimera over a Taurox for transporting a melee unit? Taurox is a bit cheaper isn’t it?

Taurox is cheaper yes, but it can only transport 10 AM models, the Chimera has a capacity of 12. Furthermore the Taurox is faster but not as tough as the Chimera.

So if I wasn’t going to transport over 10 models anyway, it’d be speed versus toughness?

That and equipment on the transport. Chimeras can be turned into a poor man's hellhounds with 2 heavy flamers, be given track guards so their movement doesn't degrade, and as mentioned can carry 12 models. I feel they work best if you need to go up the center and take hits to get to your destination.

Tauroxes are faster, cheaper, have decent armament for what they are, and are good on a flank. They don't draw a lot of attention, have long range weapons, and are good to move up a flank for a cheeky objective grab or something

Appreciate the food for thought. Gives me something to chew on, lol. I believe the Chimera is also about $15 cheaper, so that may influence my choice a bit. Although, the Taurox is quite stylish with a wheel kit.

Get it in the Stormtroopers start collecting boxes. Everything in the box is useful and gets you what are otherwise grossly overpriced models at a reasonable price

Are the start collecting boxes for all armies discounted compared to buying the models separately? Do you still get all the bits?

Yes and yes.

So I've been looking at getting a Malcador recently. Problem is they all look like utter garbage rules-wise with the possible exception of the Infernus. Has anyone used Malcadors recently? are there any that perform at least somewhat competitively? I love the models, but I get the impression that it'll just end up as a display piece :/

 Manalishi wrote:
So I've been looking at getting a Malcador recently. Problem is they all look like utter garbage rules-wise with the possible exception of the Infernus. Has anyone used Malcadors recently? are there any that perform at least somewhat competitively? I love the models, but I get the impression that it'll just end up as a display piece :/

Nope, they're trash. They're a really bad victim of power creep from index to codex, when the LRBT got its shots doubled the poor Malcador tanks were left behind. Even the Infernus costs a ton of points for a marginal improvement over a basic Hellhound.

Hello
Currently I am trying to add some "umpf" to my list in infantry department.
I really like Scions as a commando deep strike unit but I am kinda not sold on plasma spam. On BS3+ plasma is just so expensive. 3 plasma guns costs more than 5 scions squad with hot shots. Therefore what do You think about running scions with hot shot lasguns only? Still kinda "cheapish", -2 AP, possibility to double the fire rate with command for all models in unit.

Also what do You think about volley gun as a cheaper alternative to plasma gun and to keep scions in distance?

Scion Plasma is expensive but it's also very good, 5 man unit with 2 bs3+ plasma guns with deepstrike for only 74pt's is a steal, throw in a tempestor to grant them reroll 1's overcharge them and have field day deleting much more expensive light armour.

Scions big issue typically is that they tend to die after dropping in, you drop in, get a round of shooting off then the scions get deleted in the following turn, so you want to make sure they hit as hard as they can on the first round, plasma gives you a wide range of targets you can make your points back against whereas hotshots are much more limiting due to the strength 3. Something else to note is that hotshots have 18" range, so they don't get to rapid fire on the drop as you have to be at or within 9" to rapid fire and you have to deepstrike them 9" away from enemy models.

As for volley guns, i enjoy them simply because they put out so many shots but i wouldn't expect them to accomplish miracles, being a heavy weapon they're -1 to hit on the turn they drop in which can really hurt them. they do chew stuff up though when they hit, S4 -2AP with 4 shots does some real damage when you find a good target for them.

Valkyries can help with range issues.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Valkyries can help with range issues.

I'm not huge fan of the idea of scions in valkyries. You're already paying a premium for the deep strike ability, if you need something for valks, a command squad or veteran squad is cheaper. Even a SWS will save you on points and all pack a similar punch.

A platoon commander and SWS w/3x plasma is cheaper than a Scion squad with 2x plas and even cheaper than a scion command squad with plasma. Plus with the SWS you get the reroll to 1s. Granted, you are bs4+ vs bs3+.

Or you could take full advantage of and squeeze 2 SWS's in a valk.

Gnollu wrote:
Hello
Currently I am trying to add some "umpf" to my list in infantry department.
I really like Scions as a commando deep strike unit but I am kinda not sold on plasma spam. On BS3+ plasma is just so expensive. 3 plasma guns costs more than 5 scions squad with hot shots. Therefore what do You think about running scions with hot shot lasguns only? Still kinda "cheapish", -2 AP, possibility to double the fire rate with command for all models in unit.

Also what do You think about volley gun as a cheaper alternative to plasma gun and to keep scions in distance?

The problem is that they Deep Strike more than 9", and their rapid fire range is 9" or less, so the rate of fire of just regular old hot shots is not so hot. Strength 3 means that you won't be scoring wounds as easily as well - so at this point they'd be best as an objective grabber or a distraction/bully unit rather than a damage dealer. They also lose most of their mobility once they drop, so rather than engaging, your opponent could just waltz out of effective range of them and just fire the occasional pot shot in their direction.

I for one enjoy volley guns, but as noted elsewhere, they do have the drawback of being heavy. The pro is that they are longer ranged than plasma or hot shots, so you have more options for positioning them to your liking, and if they can survive their first turn, they can get some more work done in the future.

Long story short:
Hot Shot - Bully/Distraction or Objective Grabber
Plasma - Is King, but don't expect them to survive to the next turn
Volley - versatile and useful, but it is no plasma.

The Stormtrooper-specific order is pretty great on Volley guns. You can tear anything T7 or less a new one with some Volley guns re-rolling all to-wound rolls.

I also like the order for Melta-guns. I don't think Melta-guns are completely out-shone by Plasma guns, as they have a higher ceiling than Plasma guns. It's certainly worth including a couple in your army in case you need to tag a high-wound model.

 Saber wrote:
I also like the order for Melta-guns. I don't think Melta-guns are completely out-shone by Plasma guns, as they have a higher ceiling than Plasma guns. It's certainly worth including a couple in your army in case you need to tag a high-wound model.

Uh no. Especially for scions as you don't get that melta bonus before dying. And even with that there's very small niche where melta actually even scores more wounds than plasma _and is more expensive to boot_. It's such an amazingly narrow niche that you in practice never gets to even use(as you can't deep strike to melta range so you inevitably die before getting to use it. If you have the niche target and land nearby you think opponent will ALLOW you to survive? Especially if you have just "couple"....).

8th ed deep strike rules killed melta gun basically. To be worth it it would have to be lot cheaper. More expensive than plasma is just insulting.

With the new limits on Deep Strike, I've been deploying a volley gun command squad in set-up... it gets them on the table without a turn of -1 shooting penalty, their range is adequate, the damage output is excellent, they pair well with a Prime with Kurov's Aquila, and good use of cover and stratagems can help keep them in play. The plasma guys show up Turn 2 with a Prime with Laurels of Command, hit hard as we know they do, then generally go away as described above. That's some of the best less-than-400-points I spend in most of my games.

First turn unless you go 2nd and enemy moves forward you will still suffer -1 as range is 24" which means you are out of range right away. But yeah volley guns can more easily start on board. Or in taurox prime if I have them to reduce drops if I can get the +1 with that(unlikely but sometimes I'm up against another MSU)

I like the volley guns as well, they're somewhat outshone by plasma but they're cheaper and help you deal with cheap screens or infantry that likes to hide in cover. If plasma gets any more nerfs you'll probably see more people try them, they're a unique weapon and can hit hard in the right circumstances. Not that IG is ever hurting for anti horde but they're a good deepstriking option for throwing on obectives out of the way with that 24" range.

Plus they save you some money on outfitting stormtrooper batallions and at least with them you can get some variety to the poses. Why on Earth GW thought that plasma arm was a good idea I'll never know, if I ever meet the guy who decided to do that he'll get an earful


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I like the volley guns as well, they're somewhat outshone by plasma but they're cheaper and help you deal with cheap screens or infantry that likes to hide in cover. If plasma gets any more nerfs you'll probably see more people try them, they're a unique weapon and can hit hard in the right circumstances. Not that IG is ever hurting for anti horde but they're a good deepstriking option for throwing on obectives out of the way with that 24" range.

Plus they save you some money on outfitting stormtrooper batallions and at least with them you can get some variety to the poses. Why on Earth GW thought that plasma arm was a good idea I'll never know, if I ever meet the guy who decided to do that he'll get an earful

And can cause surprising hurt against vehicles. Sure D1 but -2 save and wounding often enough on 5+ and pile of dices.

Yesterday one of the only good things I had vs alaitoc/harlequin combo(which went horribly. Didn't expect them to do 30" charges like nothing and ignoring screens and ignore overwatch and whatnot and 4++'s...) were hot shots that gave promising results and this against very bad opponent. -1 to hit to negate extra shots and inv saves to negate AP.

tneva82 wrote:

 Saber wrote:
I also like the order for Melta-guns. I don't think Melta-guns are completely out-shone by Plasma guns, as they have a higher ceiling than Plasma guns. It's certainly worth including a couple in your army in case you need to tag a high-wound model.

Uh no. Especially for scions as you don't get that melta bonus before dying. And even with that there's very small niche where melta actually even scores more wounds than plasma _and is more expensive to boot_. It's such an amazingly narrow niche that you in practice never gets to even use(as you can't deep strike to melta range so you inevitably die before getting to use it. If you have the niche target and land nearby you think opponent will ALLOW you to survive? Especially if you have just "couple"....).

8th ed deep strike rules killed melta gun basically. To be worth it it would have to be lot cheaper. More expensive than plasma is just insulting.

On average a melta-gun at 12" will inflict slightly fewer wounds than a plasma gun, but it has a higher ceiling. If there's something with 5 wounds (like, say, most characters) a plasma gun cannot kill it, while a melta-gun might. As melta-guns have fewer shots they can lean more on the re-roll stratagem to get good results against a critical target, and they don't kill their users.

Plasma guns are definitely better as they have a longer range and more shots, so they can engage a wider number of targets, but melta-guns aren't worthless. If you flipped their point costs I think they'd be equally good.

And some good CC options in AM? Or maybe some allies?

Gnollu wrote:
And some good CC options in AM? Or maybe some allies?

You can try Adeptus Custodes: Supreme Command Detachment with 3 Bike-Captains.

But usually, the best protection against CC is superior firepower and a lot of expendable chaff units.

I was thinking more about attack using CC than defense against? Somebody tried catachan mass infantry charge maybe ?

Best bet for offensive CC is Bullgryns buffed with Psychic Barrier and maybe adding a Vexillus Defensor (Custodes character) for a 5+ invulnerable that you can stack on. They’re extremely tough to shift and powerful attacking.

Anyone got Brandon Grant's Boise Cup list? How did he deal with the Knights?

karandrasss wrote:
Anyone got Brandon Grant's Boise Cup list? How did he deal with the Knights?

From BCP:

-IG Brigade- (no clue on regiment)
Commander
Commander
Primaris
x5 Infantry Squads
x3 Infantry Squad with a Plasma Gun
x9 Bullgryns
Astropath
Ministorum Priest
x3 Hellhounds (Inferno Cannon)
x2 Basilisks
Mortar HWS

-IG SPH AUX-
Tallarn Shadowsword

Regarding Knights, I'd say he got paired well. I think the immediately-popular Raven Castellan just obliterates the Shadowsword, even with Tallarn getting the guaranteed first shot in thanks to the Ambush strat. The Bullgryns seem to be the real crux of the list.

 magodedisco wrote:
Regarding Knights, I'd say he got paired well. I think the immediately-popular Raven Castellan just obliterates the Shadowsword, even with Tallarn getting the guaranteed first shot in thanks to the Ambush strat. The Bullgryns seem to be the real crux of the list.

Pretty much yeah castellan with 4++ can survive shadowsword with the rotate ion shield(and that's worth the 3CP vs shadowsword) and blow that thing apart. Sure you'll be damaged but not totally crippled so if rest of IG isn't good at taking down ~10W of knight you'll be struggling to finish it off.

Raven castellan is like designed to blow up other SHV walkers and live to tell the tale. Even going 2nd.

With Elysians out of production, are Temepestus Scions a competitive alternative for an Airborne type drop trooper with them DS/transporting in fliers?

 Dynas wrote:
With Elysians out of production, are Temepestus Scions a competitive alternative for an Airborne type drop trooper with them DS/transporting in fliers?

I don't know how they compare to Elysians, but I find them very competitive.

Are you able to run a Cadian battalion with say like:

Company Commander
Psyker

Infantry x10
Infantry x10
Militarium Tempestus Scions x5


If so are the Scions getting the Scions doctrine or the cadian or none?

 exploited751 wrote:
Are you able to run a Cadian battalion with say like:

Company Commander
Psyker

Infantry x10
Infantry x10
Militarium Tempestus Scions


If so are the Scions getting the Scions doctrine or the cadian or none?

Yes, you would need to run it with cadian (or other standard regiment doctrine). The scions would get no bonus, but the IS and CC could get the cadian doctrine. Page 132 AM codex