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2013/05/21 20:05:33
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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Been Around the Block
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Yet with the situation of shortfall in tau releases and supply and then to have this an issue with their own stores being told the new Eldar releases will be falling short with supplies due to a supplier issue, has been going forums not just here but else were as well.
So is this a shift in attitude towards the hobby with GW showing signs of financial problems. As a fan of the hobby one hopes not but with the price hikes and supplier problems it raises some questions like are they in financial difficulty.
Seems other on here are starting to ask as well.
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2013/05/21 20:44:23
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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Dominar
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I doubt it's financial trouble so much as just totally failing to forecast the demand for the new Tau line. I would hazard to guess they looked at history, said 'this is how much Tau we sell, (small number, nowhere near Space Marines), so we'll just double that and be good". And then 5x as many people show up and then run out of models.
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2013/05/21 21:06:32
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
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Them not supplying enough is not an indicator of financial trouble...Logic it a little bit, and you get either A) their suppliers are not holding their end of the bargain, which is not GW's fault(though it will result in them needing new suppliers potentially), or B) they under-forecast their need, and thus sold way more than they thought they would leading to a shortage. That's generally a GOOD sign for a company, if that's the case.
In short: It's not a sign of anything, don't try to read into it. What you're insinuating is like saying Nintendo is screwed because they couldn't keep up with demand for the Wii for months when it came out initially.
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2013/05/21 21:10:28
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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Infiltrating Prowler
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troa wrote:Them not supplying enough is not an indicator of financial trouble...Logic it a little bit, and you get either A) their suppliers are not holding their end of the bargain, which is not GW's fault(though it will result in them needing new suppliers potentially), or B) they under-forecast their need, and thus sold way more than they thought they would leading to a shortage. That's generally a GOOD sign for a company, if that's the case.
In short: It's not a sign of anything, don't try to read into it. What you're insinuating is like saying Nintendo is screwed because they couldn't keep up with demand for the Wii for months when it came out initially.
Hastings over at Warseer claimed the Tau debacle was a result of not enough boxes being printed by the company that supplies GW boxes. It was not due to a lack of production capabilities at GW. People reported getting generic white boxes from GW for their Tau orders.
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2013/05/21 21:17:21
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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Ultramarine Scout with Sniper Rifle
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2013/05/21 21:23:44
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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if you read there results or statements you'll see there is nothing in it that has any hint of trouble
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DT:80S+++G+++M+B++I+Pw40k00+D++A(WTF)/areWD100R+++++T(T)DM+ |
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2013/05/21 21:27:26
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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Dominar
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The GW financial results are safe inside their recession-proof IP fortress and Hobby moats.
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2013/05/21 21:52:11
Subject: Re:GW in financial trouble ???
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.
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Something is going on with their increased release schedule and other odd behavior.
It might be because the Hobbit game tanked so bad, or it might be something else.
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2013/05/21 21:55:59
Subject: Re:GW in financial trouble ???
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Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander
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Blackmoor wrote:Something is going on with their increased release schedule and other odd behavior.
It might be because the Hobbit game tanked so bad, or it might be something else.
I would suggest this is far closer to the truth.
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How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website " |
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2013/05/21 22:03:04
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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Feldwebel
Tamworth, UK
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Has the Hobbit tanked though? Ok, it's not a hit with WFB or 40k players, and obviously hasn't had the impact of the LOTR stuff (I honestly think that its nowhere near as strong a starter set as The Fellowship was), but from what I've been told it's not sold badly?
As for Gaw being in trouble financially - nope..... Just look at the sales of BL and FW - not to mention the IP licensing revenues.
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2013/05/21 22:40:26
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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Using Inks and Washes
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Art Steventon wrote:Has the Hobbit tanked though? Ok, it's not a hit with WFB or 40k players, and obviously hasn't had the impact of the LOTR stuff (I honestly think that its nowhere near as strong a starter set as The Fellowship was), but from what I've been told it's not sold badly?
As for Gaw being in trouble financially - nope..... Just look at the sales of BL and FW - not to mention the IP licensing revenues.
GW isn't in financial trouble reading the reports but id the hobbit wasnt as successful as predicted it may make hit cash and sales targets that the market is expecting more difficult. That could definitely explain rush to release other products.
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2014 will be the year of zero GW purchases. Kneadite instead of GS, no paints or models. 2014 will be the year I finally make the move to military models and away from miniature games. |
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2013/05/21 22:40:45
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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GW are making a profit and have cash in the bank to pay dividends.
Whatever the long term prospects, they are not in financial trouble right now.
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2013/05/21 22:54:00
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Nothing screamed issue and they work with a fairly high (this is guessed) EBITDA (Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization. This is meant for all you people not in finance, wiki it if you need to). Supply issue don’t equal out to financial issues at all. I honestly don’t believe there is much of a supply issue really. I honestly believe that telling stores they will not have as much product makes owners tell buyers to buy when it’s released and not hold out. This will help GW maintain a high output and make sure that those stores on financing options that GW offer (I believe most stores have 45 days to pay off) pay their bills quickly.
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2013/05/21 22:56:07
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Kilkrazy wrote:GW are making a profit and have cash in the bank to pay dividends.
Whatever the long term prospects, they are not in financial trouble right now.
the paying of the dividends right meow is really all that matters, GW's business model is not built on long term success but is largely a plan to just get them to the next pay out.
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DT:80S+++G+++M+B++I+Pw40k00+D++A(WTF)/areWD100R+++++T(T)DM+ |
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2013/05/21 22:56:45
Subject: Re:GW in financial trouble ???
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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In recent years, GW made insane price hikes to compensate for lower sales and keep the revenue flat (adjusted for inflation). They didn't grow for 8 years ... in a growing market ... after they broke up with De Agostini that made all the needed advertising for the LOTR game and created the "LOTR bubble" (bubble because GW went back to non-advertising).
With the Hobbit, GW tried to double the prices. The market said "Are you crazy?" So you can still get the limited edition starters after 6 months that should have been sold in 3 days.
To compensate, GW now starts with doubling prices for standard troops, beginning with Dire Avengers. Also releasing mostly 50+ GBP kits, including slight variations of 30 GBP models (Dark Talon), now with almost 100 GBP models. Current Codices are also double the price of their predecessor at release. If you need to double the prices for standard products just to keep revenue flat, you must be in really dire conditions.
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2013/05/21 23:25:22
Subject: Re:GW in financial trouble ???
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Kroothawk wrote:In recent years, GW made insane price hikes to compensate for lower sales and keep the revenue flat (adjusted for inflation).
No. GW is checking the markets elasticity, this is a common business move for an industry leader. They will continue to raise prices till sales drop. Sales of LoTR failed so did merchandising in almost every other industry but overall sales are up.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/21 23:27:17
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2013/05/21 23:36:56
Subject: Re:GW in financial trouble ???
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Kroothawk wrote:
With the Hobbit, GW tried to double the prices. The market said "Are you crazy?" So you can still get the limited edition starters after 6 months that should have been sold in 3 days.
In fairness, huge Hobbit price hike is probably not entirely GW's fault. Look at how much Lego licensed ranges cost (Star Wars and Hobbit). They're just crazy expensive.
And recent accelerated release schedule likely doesn't have anything to do with success or failure of The Hobbit. Codex and model releases are planned at least a year ahead.
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Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker! |
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2013/05/21 23:38:47
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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Aspirant Tech-Adept
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The sky is falling again? So soon?
Eldar players have been waiting a long time and GW knows full well that there is pent up demand for the models and has priced them accordingly.
Fifty bucks for a supplement? That is pretty brazen so they must be feeling confident rather than desperate.
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2013/05/21 23:46:58
Subject: Re:GW in financial trouble ???
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Backfire wrote: Kroothawk wrote:
With the Hobbit, GW tried to double the prices. The market said "Are you crazy?" So you can still get the limited edition starters after 6 months that should have been sold in 3 days.
In fairness, huge Hobbit price hike is probably not entirely GW's fault. Look at how much Lego licensed ranges cost (Star Wars and Hobbit). They're just crazy expensive.
And recent accelerated release schedule likely doesn't have anything to do with success or failure of The Hobbit. Codex and model releases are planned at least a year ahead.
As a AFoL (adult fan of Lego) I can agree with this.
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2013/05/22 01:38:50
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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Ian Pickstock
Nottingham
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silent25 wrote: troa wrote:Them not supplying enough is not an indicator of financial trouble...Logic it a little bit, and you get either A) their suppliers are not holding their end of the bargain, which is not GW's fault(though it will result in them needing new suppliers potentially), or B) they under-forecast their need, and thus sold way more than they thought they would leading to a shortage. That's generally a GOOD sign for a company, if that's the case.
In short: It's not a sign of anything, don't try to read into it. What you're insinuating is like saying Nintendo is screwed because they couldn't keep up with demand for the Wii for months when it came out initially.
Hastings over at Warseer claimed the Tau debacle was a result of not enough boxes being printed by the company that supplies GW boxes. It was not due to a lack of production capabilities at GW. People reported getting generic white boxes from GW for their Tau orders.
printing a box consists of opening the design in the appropriate folder and clicking 'print'. I seriously doubt they ran out of boxes.
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Naaa na na na-na-na-naaa.
Na-na-na-naaaaa.
Hey Jude. |
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2013/05/22 02:42:42
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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BryllCream wrote:silent25 wrote: troa wrote:Them not supplying enough is not an indicator of financial trouble...Logic it a little bit, and you get either A) their suppliers are not holding their end of the bargain, which is not GW's fault(though it will result in them needing new suppliers potentially), or B) they under-forecast their need, and thus sold way more than they thought they would leading to a shortage. That's generally a GOOD sign for a company, if that's the case.
In short: It's not a sign of anything, don't try to read into it. What you're insinuating is like saying Nintendo is screwed because they couldn't keep up with demand for the Wii for months when it came out initially.
Hastings over at Warseer claimed the Tau debacle was a result of not enough boxes being printed by the company that supplies GW boxes. It was not due to a lack of production capabilities at GW. People reported getting generic white boxes from GW for their Tau orders.
printing a box consists of opening the design in the appropriate folder and clicking 'print'. I seriously doubt they ran out of boxes.
If they outsource their printing there's many reasons why they could have fallen short, either by their own error or the printer. That printer likely has other client orders to fulfil, so even if they were liable, it would take time to correct.
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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2013/05/22 05:31:42
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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Yes, they won't print their own boxes but will do it with another company. As printers can be booked for months, if GW under ordered then it could be quite a wait until more can be done. I'm not sure I buy the printing sleeves excuse, I think it's more of an decision by GW to produce less volume.
There's a balance between producing stock and getting rapid sales and money, if you produce less stock there are slightly less sales but there's almost no waste at all because it all sells. In the past they probably over produced to have a healthy inventory to sell over time beyond the initial release, this makes more money over a longer time period but requires having to invest more at the start. Maybe GW are not inclined to producing and storing long term stocks of things. If they are unhealthy it could be a symptom of them not haven't much liquid cash, if they are healthy then they are just choosing to convert less cash money into assets/stock, for whatever reason.
As for the Hobbit, no one really knows what its sales are like. And if it has become a money pit for GW I expect they'll try to dress it up nicely in their next investors report.
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2013/05/22 07:09:37
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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I've always had generic white boxes for GW stuff ordered by post to the store. There's no point printing a box that doesn't have to sell itself off the shelf.
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2013/05/22 08:28:57
Subject: Re:GW in financial trouble ???
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Hacking Proxy Mk.1
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Devoted-to-the-machine wrote: Kroothawk wrote:In recent years, GW made insane price hikes to compensate for lower sales and keep the revenue flat (adjusted for inflation).
No. GW is checking the markets elasticity, this is a common business move for an industry leader. They will continue to raise prices till sales drop. Sales of LoTR failed so did merchandising in almost every other industry but overall sales are up.
No, they are not. Sales have been falling for years in Australia so what do they do? They begin increasing costs in the US to match us. That is not testing elasticity, that is raising prices to cover falling sales.
GW are still making money, but they are only doing it by cutting costs (moving to one man stores that are only open 5 days, etc). That is not a sustainable business model.
They also grew what, 6.5% last year right? The market grew 15% so they are losing their market share to their competitors.
Then there was the 10 or so videogame licences they dished out at the start of the year, that doesn't seem like a good sign considering their attitude towards such things in the past.
They are still making a profit and their stock is dropping but neither of those things mean they are not in trouble, it just means that trouble hasn't punched them in the nuts yet.
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Fafnir wrote:Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that. |
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2013/05/22 08:32:34
Subject: Re:GW in financial trouble ???
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Focused Fire Warrior
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notprop wrote: Blackmoor wrote:Something is going on with their increased release schedule and other odd behavior.
It might be because the Hobbit game tanked so bad, or it might be something else.
I would suggest this is far closer to the truth.
Harry and Hastings predicted this increased release schedule around august 2012, so unless they are psychics that know the Hobbit is going to tank, I don't think it's because of the Hobbit we are seeing this increased schedule.
Personally I thank Warmachine for it. I think they showed GW that consumers will buy a lot more than they expected and that you don't have to starve them 8 years before giving them an update.
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Saddened on behalf of all the Ultramarines, Salamanders and White Scars players who got their Codex rolled into Codex: Black Templars. |
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2013/05/22 09:37:02
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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Major
London
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When is the next financial statement due for people to take apart?
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2013/05/22 09:48:29
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander
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September/October for half year.
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How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website " |
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2013/05/22 09:51:54
Subject: Re:GW in financial trouble ???
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Devoted-to-the-machine wrote:No. GW is checking the markets elasticity, this is a common business move for an industry leader. They will continue to raise prices till sales drop. Sales of LoTR failed so did merchandising in almost every other industry but overall sales are up.
1.) Sales are flat, adjusted by inflation. Don't have the table with me, but I can post it tonight.
2.) GW raises prices by maybe 10% on average, GW loses 10% sales. So elasticity is reached. For years. Does GW react? Yes, it increases prices to compensate for loss of sales. Now they feel like they have to double the prices to compensate for loss of sales ...
Howard A Treesong wrote:As for the Hobbit, no one really knows what its sales are like.
We all know that the limited edition is still available. We know that GW invests next to nothing in marketing this line even in their own publication, the WD. Anecdotical evidence speak of almost no sales whenever you ask.
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2013/05/22 10:34:28
Subject: Re:GW in financial trouble ???
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Sheffield, City of University and Northern-ness
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Kroothawk wrote:Also releasing mostly 50+ GBP kits, including slight variations of 30 GBP models (Dark Talon), now with almost 100 GBP models.
Wow! A £100 model?! Which one is that?
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2013/05/22 11:01:08
Subject: GW in financial trouble ???
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Dakka Veteran
South East London
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When I worked in the book industry publishers would purposefully under supply stockists so that they could say their titles sold out on release.
I'm not saying that's GW policy but it certainly looks good for Share Holders if their big release sells out that first weekend.
Of course its a fine line, they don't want to lose sales.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/05/22 11:13:36
"Dig in and wait for Winter" |
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