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So if I understand things correctly a Wraithknight standing in/on area terrain will get a cover save. Will this lead to ridiculous things like a wraithknight standing on a crater and getting a save.

Is this a concern? Is this a failure of GW to think how such enormous models interact with the rules?

Should it get a save if it is in area terrain that is ankle high?

There's no reason you can't rule that certain area terrain features won't provide cover to large models when you discuss terrain with your opponent before the game.

While I will agree with you that it is ridiculous, the wording is pretty clear within the rulebook. Any model that is inside the boundary of all area terrain, excluding open ground, gains a cover save of some type. You can easily talk to your opponent about limiting the cover save to 25% or more, as per the line of sight requirements, but if they want to play by the rules you will be forced to comply or forfeit.

What really is curious is the fact it isn't just limited to large and over sized models. With the way the entry has been written, the area terrain can be nothing more then a baseboard, different coloration on the map or a sprinkling of sand. Now of course a reasonable person would actually add some features to said terrain, and I think you would be justified telling them to get some real terrain if they try to leave it barren.

Still that leave situations where a model could be standing on the boundary of this terrain, with the enemy having a clear line of sight and still gain a cover save because it's toes are berried in the sand....

Welcome to Warhammer 40k, where the rules do not have to make sense.

It's an abstract system.
That crater could be fresh, kicking out a huge amount of smoke. Radiation from it could be interfering with scanners.
And it may well have a suitable save to never need to stand in a crater. Time will tell.

I agree but I think the rules are good, because in a non competitive game, a quick look can say if its 25% or not but maybe in a heated tournament where the cover save could save his life, that 25% get very hard to measure. Grendel083 also makes a very valid point.

Very nice point there, we can simply assume something about that area is 'off' and that gives the cover save.

It's strange that no one questions a normal infantry model getting a save for having a toe buried in the sand, but MCs (and FMCs) are a nono.

I really don't know why they kept the 25% override for vehicles, but not for monsters.

Cuz the whole point of this edition was to nerf vehicles.

This is the problem of having something TLOS, and then something abstract like big gigantic T-rex getting 4+ cover save from a puddle of water... Yay GW?

Again, it's not a problem, because you're supposed to discuss these things with your opponent before the game.

Just as Dangerous Terrain doesn't necessarily have to be Dangerous for everyone (you could, for example, decide that a piece of terrain containing toxic cacti is Dangerous to infantry, but not to vehicles) you could as easily decide that a given piece of area terrain only grants cover to models that are short enough to actually be obscured by it.

Is it ridiculous? yes. Is it legal? yes. The fact of the matter is the player with the Wraithknight with a toe in area terrain getting a 5+ cover save will think its a good rule and the person shooting the Wraithknight with a toe in area terrain getting a 5+ cover, won't. The abstract nature of area terrain keeps things simple and won't let arguments over what is and isn't 25% cover lead to table flips and holes punched in walls.

Most likely the Wraithknight will be like the riptide and have an invul save of 5 or better. That means area terrain wont mean anything as it has a standing save that is equal to or better.

Go to rulebook in 40k pg.75 he has to be atlest 25% obscured to get the save.

Yeah, really it's just a matter of talking to opponents. Part of the reason for ambiguity is so that if people want to play but don't have terrain, you can use other things and go "hey, this counts as x, agreed?" prior to the game.

 patrickekirby wrote:
Go to rulebook in 40k pg.75 he has to be atlest 25% obscured to get the save.

That's for vehicles. He's not a vehicle.
MCs don't have the same restriction.

Though the Wraithknight might be a Walker with a base. We won't know until the codex comes out.

How is it any more ridiculous for a Flyrant or a Riptide to obtain the same save?

The models cool and all but its bascially a knight titan,,,,,,good grief ,how is that gonna get a cover save from something barely covering its feet,

Im sorry but if someone tried that with my Id decree shenanigans

Shenanigans? How is following a rule shenanigans?

I'm just waiting for the "Does the ADL give a cover save to Wraithknights?" threads to start....

 grendel083 wrote:
It's an abstract system.
That crater could be fresh, kicking out a huge amount of smoke. Radiation from it could be interfering with scanners.
And it may well have a suitable save to never need to stand in a crater. Time will tell.

well put.

This is an issue covered before you start playing and are setting up terrain.

Hashbeth wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
It's an abstract system.
That crater could be fresh, kicking out a huge amount of smoke. Radiation from it could be interfering with scanners.
And it may well have a suitable save to never need to stand in a crater. Time will tell.

well put.

This is an issue covered before you start playing and are setting up terrain.

So the radiation and smoke provide a cover for something the size of a skyscraper, but not a rhino. This is why 40k rules are often mocked as stupidly written and conceived.

JWhex wrote:

Hashbeth wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
It's an abstract system.
That crater could be fresh, kicking out a huge amount of smoke. Radiation from it could be interfering with scanners.
And it may well have a suitable save to never need to stand in a crater. Time will tell.

well put.

This is an issue covered before you start playing and are setting up terrain.

So the radiation and smoke provide a cover for something the size of a skyscraper, but not a rhino. This is why 40k rules are often mocked as stupidly written and conceived.

Don't play the game then.
This edition is much more streamlined than previously. If you start adding extra rules for every situation that doesn't make sense to you, the book would be x4 as thick! Monstrous Creatures get cover from area terrain, unless they're more than 5" tall? Now there's a host of MFA problems.
Exceptions slow the game down.
And if you don't like area terrain, then agree with your opponent not to use any! The rules work, and are more often stupidly read than stupidly written.

I cant see why there is an argument here. the codex has not even been released. and people are debating the rules.

As said its down to how you play your scenery anyway. when me and my friend play. especially with riptides and dread knights. you have to make up fluff to cover the scenery rules. for instance my riptide is standing on a large blast crater. and gets a 5+ save from the scenery, this is to show that the model is walking across uneven ground making its movement some what irregular making it harder to hit.

You have to use Fluff for some scenarios there is no way around it sometimes. this just has to be agreed between two mature players.

 grendel083 wrote:

I'm just waiting for the "Does the ADL give a cover save to Wraithknights?" threads to start....

This seems pretty cut-and-dry to me:



Where did that Wraithknight go?!?!

Oh that's easily 65% obscured, I can just make out the shoulders.

rigeld2 wrote:

 patrickekirby wrote:
Go to rulebook in 40k pg.75 he has to be atlest 25% obscured to get the save.

That's for vehicles. He's not a vehicle.
MCs don't have the same restriction.

Why isn't he a vehicle? Looks like a giant walker/dreadnought to me. Besides, even vehicles get a cover save on area terrain regardless of % coverage, pg 91, bottom of page in boldface.

Rumbleguts wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 patrickekirby wrote:
Go to rulebook in 40k pg.75 he has to be atlest 25% obscured to get the save.

That's for vehicles. He's not a vehicle.
MCs don't have the same restriction.

Why isn't he a vehicle? Looks like a giant walker/dreadnought to me. Besides, even vehicles get a cover save on area terrain regardless of % coverage, pg 91, bottom of page in boldface.

Don't have the page but the vehicle rules say they do in fact need 25% obscured even in area. MCs do not in area terrain.

Rumor leaks thus far point to the knight being a MC like a NDK or Riptide, just much larger and tougher.

Rumbleguts wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 patrickekirby wrote:
Go to rulebook in 40k pg.75 he has to be atlest 25% obscured to get the save.

That's for vehicles. He's not a vehicle.
MCs don't have the same restriction.

Why isn't he a vehicle? Looks like a giant walker/dreadnought to me. Besides, even vehicles get a cover save on area terrain regardless of % coverage, pg 91, bottom of page in boldface.

Have a read of page 75 top left, first bullet point there.

That was a good one Oaka. That was a good one indeed.