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Does anyone ever actually use a Bastion over an ADL?

I've got a bastion coming in the mail because I want the model for terrain / bits, and I'll probably play a few games with it for giggles, but comparing the two I really can't come up with many pros to outweigh all the cons. Sure, it has AV 14, but anything that can hurt it comes with most likely an AP 2+ meaning the penetrating armor roll will get the bonuses and cause more havoc. You're also forced to allocate a wound on both a penetrating hit and a glancing hit with no cover save. Furthermore, the ADL can cover multiple squads if you deploy correctly.

The only pro i could come up with is you're immune to bolter/lasgun/etc fire. I really don't understand the point justification. Anyone have any success with them?

The Bastion relies on not letting melta come within 6". If you can manage/prevent that it's a good choice for armies that lack AV14 vehicles.

Also, not many people remember that you can use flamer templates/grenades on the fire points so the unit inside is usually save.

I often use it with my Sisters and a min-sized Retributor squad inside. With an ADL I have to go full-size or risk losing a special weapon on the first casualty.

 Shandara wrote:
The Bastion relies on not letting melta come within 6". If you can manage/prevent that it's a good choice for armies that lack AV14 vehicles.

Also, not many people remember that you can use flamer templates/grenades on the fire points so the unit inside is usually save.

I often use it with my Sisters and a min-sized Retributor squad inside. With an ADL I have to go full-size or risk losing a special weapon on the first casualty.

Pretty good points, never thought of those really. I never used the bastion but my friend has one collecting dust. I might have to shake it off and try it out for a few games.

Yeah, bastion is great in certain circumstances. Most of the time, people don't bother shooting at it.

I've only lost it twice, I think.

I go for it quickly as many people in my meta who take one put too many important things in there. so my meganobz rush it and all those powerclaws....yeah

big issue with it is the guys inside and on top suffer massive casualties if it pops.

ADL has its issues, and really doesn't fair much better IMO. ADL quad gun can be assaulted without assaulting the unit (unless they surround it) so it can be nullified as well. plus targetted for shooting.

So far the only fortification clear winner is the Skyshield as it gives a 4+ invul (meaning ignores cover means nothing) and its large space means you can put quite a bit on there. You give up the interceptor weapon. but more and more armies are going to get skyfire covered by other means.

You can always leave it empty and just put a unit on top to prevent it being targeted by melat/lascannons.

The big advantage is that the bastion gives a high point to shoot from for squads that might want that and a LoS blocking piece of terrain to put your barrage weapons behind.

Bastions are very good for Tau.

Sniper Drones on the roof to take advantage of stealth and the jet pack means much fewer of them die if the bastion bites it. Great commanding view of the area.

You can squeeze three broadsides and a support commander inside the bastion (four very bulky models). Two models per fire port, each wall has 2-3 fireports means everyone can shoot. Then the building detonates doing 2d6 or 4d6 s6 ap - hits and your 2+ save models walk out of the rubble like a boss (remember, you have complete control over who is wounded).

Keep in mind that the cost of the bastion is comparable to the cost for defensive gear on the broadsides and it makes even more sense.

For marines, scouts can use the battlements well with the camo cloak and you could throw las cannon or missile launcher devastator equivalents inside the building without losing firepower. The sarge can fire one of the heavy bolters as a freebie heavy weapon.

Basically - ADL's work good for GEQs that the building damage and grenade rules kill by the bucket full, and bastions work well for units that have at most 6 shots and a good armor save.

I thought the wounds generated by penetrating hits were AP-.

The best use I have seen for a bastion is using it to block LOS on larger models the first turn.

ThatEdGuy wrote:The best use I have seen for a bastion is using it to block LOS on larger models the first turn.

Good idea with any high value target like a Greater Daemon that you want to start on the board but not allow them to get blasted first turn.

Andy06r wrote:

Basically - ADL's work good for GEQs that the building damage and grenade rules kill by the bucket full, and bastions work well for units that have at most 6 shots and a good armor save.

I think that is a great point.
So many people quote the large number of grenade hits, flamer hits or building breaking hits you can take but against all of those, you still have an armor save.
Frankly, a 3+ is going to make those a lot less scary.

As 6th evolves, I'm noticing more and more "no cover save" weapons and fewer people taking S8+ weapons. AV14 without hull points can throw a monkey wrench into people's plans.