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Made in ca
[DCM]
Acolyte of Goodwin






Sunny SoCal

Ok, so as I continue to dive into this I have a few questions on rules, please forgive me, I am sure I missed things in the short rulebook in my eagerness to play lol -

Question 1 -
Named pilots: Is it legal to duplicate them? Can you have 2 Soontir Fels or Wedge's? I would assume no, or at least that a house rule was prevalent that only one named instance per 100 point block or some such? What is the RAW and are there common tournament variants?

Question 2 (kinda related to one)-
Named gunners/crew: It seems to me that lists running multiple YT's or Firesprays should be an exception if there is a named character limitation. Given that crew is essentially equipment, does it count the same way?

Question 3 -
Cluster Missiles: On the card, it says spend target lock and discard the card to perform the attack twice. To my interpretation, this means essentially it is a 6 attack value and they just made it 3 and said twice to accommodate the box dice amount?

Question 4 -
Matching Pilot Skill: This one I think I know, but when Slave 1 shoots before Wedge it gets on my nerves lol... on a tie imperials always go first yes?

And that's it for now, thank in advance!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/28 22:34:53


   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

(1) Unique Names are indicated by a dot to the left of a name; you can only field one of these. (Core 18)

(2) The same is true of Upgrades. (Mil. Falc. Exp. 1)

(3) I believe you roll twice; i.e., your opponent rolls defense dice twice.

(4) In squad building games, the player with the lowest points total always has initiative; if tied, Imperials have initiative. (Core 18) The player with initiative activates ships with a given Pilot Skill before his opponent activates ships with that same Pilot Skill. (Core 16) That said, Wedge is PS 9 and Boba is only PS 8. Boba would shoot before Wedge, all else being equal, only if upgraded with Veteran Instincts.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/29 05:33:41


   
Made in ca
[DCM]
Acolyte of Goodwin






Sunny SoCal

@4, he had the upgrade... Still offensive for Boba to out pilot Wedge in my book!

@3 right I see the distinction in terms of resolving the attacks now, thanks!

   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

So he had PS 10 -- Wedge could not go before him even in a lower costed Rebel list. I also rankle at the idea of Boba having a higher PS, in principle (or Han having the same PS as Wedge before modification). But just keep in mind that PS isn't a universal piloting stat; it means how well a particular pilot can handle a particular ship.

   
Made in us
2nd Lieutenant




San Jose, California

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Ok, so as I continue to dive into this I have a few questions on rules, please forgive me, I am sure I missed things in the short rulebook in my eagerness to play lol -

Question 1 -
Named pilots: Is it legal to duplicate them? Can you have 2 Soontir Fels or Wedge's? I would assume no, or at least that a house rule was prevalent that only one named instance per 100 point block or some such? What is the RAW and are there common tournament variants?

A1: You are not allowed to have multiples of unique characters in a list. Unique characters and items (usually droids) have a bullet next to their name. (page 18 of the rule book)

Question 2 (kinda related to one)-
Named gunners/crew: It seems to me that lists running multiple YT's or Firesprays should be an exception if there is a named character limitation. Given that crew is essentially equipment, does it count the same way?

A2: Again if the crewman has the bullet next to their name you can't have a duplicate in a ship. So no Luke and Chewie as crew and as ships in the same force. (1st page of handout included with both Slave 1 and the Falcon)

Question 3 -
Cluster Missiles: On the card, it says spend target lock and discard the card to perform the attack twice. To my interpretation, this means essentially it is a 6 attack value and they just made it 3 and said twice to accommodate the box dice amount?

A3: Cluster Missiles make 2 attacks at 3 dice each. After each attack the target gets to roll it's defense dice and spend any tokens it has. However any tokens spent on the first attack have no effect on the second.

Question 4 -
Matching Pilot Skill: This one I think I know, but when Slave 1 shoots before Wedge it gets on my nerves lol...on a tie imperials always go first yes?

In casual games, if the point value of the squads are equal, then the Imps have the initiative at each pilot skill step for movement and shooting. In a tournament setting, if the point value of the squads are equal, then you flip a coin at the beginning of the game with the winner of the toss having the initiative. And as always the squad with the lower point total has the initiative.(Pages 16 & 18 in the main rule book)

And that's it for now, thank in advance!

Solve a man's problem with violence and help him for a day. Teach a man how to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime - Belkar Bitterleaf 
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut




Regarding 4) I believe that the imperial always moves first if pointage is equal but shooting is done at the same time. ie. if darth vader kills Wedge with his attack, Wedge can still shoot before blowing up because they're both PS 9 and it takes place at the same time

My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

By equal points (in #4), you mean pilot skill, right? As I took away from the rules, the setup is that all PS1 ships move first (Empire first, in ties), then PS2, up to PS9. Then, when it comes time to shoot, it goes from PS9 down to PS1. That IS correct, right? Or are my friends and I playing it horribly wrong?

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.  
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut




No, as in total pointage of game. Not PS

My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
2nd Lieutenant




San Jose, California

 timetowaste85 wrote:
By equal points (in #4), you mean pilot skill, right? As I took away from the rules, the setup is that all PS1 ships move first (Empire first, in ties), then PS2, up to PS9. Then, when it comes time to shoot, it goes from PS9 down to PS1. That IS correct, right? Or are my friends and I playing it horribly wrong?


No, points as in how many points you spent building your squad. Whomever spent the least has the initiative, moving and shooting first at each step. If both sides spent equal amounts then the Imps have the initiative in casual games.

Yes you are doing it right....movement goes PS1 to PS11 with the side having the initiative moving their ships first and shooting goes PS11 (possibly PS12 in Wave 3) to PS1, again with the side having the initiative going first.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/29 13:05:13


Solve a man's problem with violence and help him for a day. Teach a man how to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime - Belkar Bitterleaf 
   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

 Zathras wrote:
 timetowaste85 wrote:
By equal points (in #4), you mean pilot skill, right? As I took away from the rules, the setup is that all PS1 ships move first (Empire first, in ties), then PS2, up to PS9. Then, when it comes time to shoot, it goes from PS9 down to PS1. That IS correct, right? Or are my friends and I playing it horribly wrong?


No, points as in how many points you spent building your squad. Whomever spent the least has the initiative, moving and shooting first at each step. If both sides spent equal amounts then the Imps have the initiative in casual games.

Yes you are doing it right....movement goes PS1 to PS11 with the side having the initiative moving their ships first and shooting goes PS11 (possibly PS12 in Wave 3) to PS1, again with the side having the initiative going first.


Oh, okay. Both sides have always managed to be equal in points so far, so it sounds like we haven't done anything wrong then. I'll let players know that if they don't use the full allotment of points, they gain the initiative for working out moving first. That's pretty big, and encourages not using the full 100pts. Thanks dude! And thanks Tom and others for asking the questions to show me a section I missed!

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.  
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Sining wrote:
but shooting [at each Pilot Skill] is done at the same time
Yes, that's the Simultaneous Attack Rule. (Core 16)

   
Made in gb
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant






Lincolnshire

Question about modifications, shield upgrade and engine upgrade. As i read the rule i can put one of these on any ship, so i could put a shield upgrade on an x wing or even a tie ? Or i could give boost to my x wings or any ship by putting the engine upgrade on them?
   
Made in de
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon






 Salad_Fingers wrote:
Question about modifications, shield upgrade and engine upgrade. As i read the rule i can put one of these on any ship, so i could put a shield upgrade on an x wing or even a tie ? Or i could give boost to my x wings or any ship by putting the engine upgrade on them?


Correct. You can put Modifications on literally any ship. But only one modification per ship.
   
Made in ca
[DCM]
Acolyte of Goodwin






Sunny SoCal

The only way to up agility on a ship is stealth device right? I find to balance things out, given the point costs and attack v agility values, the rebels need better agility to even things out a bit...

   
Made in de
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon






 MajorTom11 wrote:
The only way to up agility on a ship is stealth device right? I find to balance things out, given the point costs and attack v agility values, the rebels need better agility to even things out a bit...


Theres R2-F2 which gives +1 agi as an action. Sadly enough a-wings cant take astromechs :(.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/06/03 21:39:04


 
   
Made in ca
[DCM]
Acolyte of Goodwin






Sunny SoCal

They can take stealth though... so the options to up durability are stealth, r2f2 and the shield upgrade, discarding tactical durability granted by boost or barrel roll...

   
Made in de
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon






 MajorTom11 wrote:
so the options to up durability are stealth, r2f2 and the shield upgrade, discarding tactical durability granted by boost or barrel roll...


Thats not all options. R5, R2D2 and R5D8 as well as Determination, Elusiveness are defensive upgrades too. They all make your ships more durable in their own way.
   
Made in ca
[DCM]
Acolyte of Goodwin






Sunny SoCal

Trying to figure out the best way to up my x-wings durability against a tie spam list. Last game, the agility rolls absolutely screwed me, though pathetic rolling didn't help lol.

   
Made in us
2nd Lieutenant




San Jose, California

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Trying to figure out the best way to up my x-wings durability against a tie spam list. Last game, the agility rolls absolutely screwed me, though pathetic rolling didn't help lol.


One way to go is the Shield Generator card for one extra shield point....increases your durability by 20%. A popular list is:

4 x Rookie X-Wing w/Shields...100 points even, giving you 24 health and 12 attack dice.

Solve a man's problem with violence and help him for a day. Teach a man how to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime - Belkar Bitterleaf 
   
Made in ca
[DCM]
Acolyte of Goodwin






Sunny SoCal

I'll have to try that too... A lot of options for a ame some dismissed as lacking depth eh! And no auto win combo either... Kinda nice too...

   
Made in de
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon






 Zathras wrote:
 MajorTom11 wrote:
Trying to figure out the best way to up my x-wings durability against a tie spam list. Last game, the agility rolls absolutely screwed me, though pathetic rolling didn't help lol.


One way to go is the Shield Generator card for one extra shield point....increases your durability by 20%. A popular list is:

4 x Rookie X-Wing w/Shields...100 points even, giving you 24 health and 12 attack dice.


Like that list. WIll try!
In general im moving away from the named pilots. At least for now. Generics just seem to be more points efficient.

Today i flew the Ion-Wheel and my opponent couldnt do anything. I escorted his slave from the board after effectively cancelling out his advanced and interceptor escort in the first round of shooting and picking the advanced up with the a-wing second turn.

Afterwars we did some analysing and thought about a good counter list containing slave1 against the ion wheel. This is what we came up with. Idea is to break his formation to seperate the y's to create more blind spots and force them into asteroids.

I call it "Linebreaker"

3x Academy Pilot
1x Alpha Squadron with Stealth Device
1x Krassis Telix with stealth device, proximity mines, protons and slave1 upgrade.

Idea is to send your slave forward heading towards ideally the middle of the ion wheel. With the stealth device (and because ions only do 1 damage a time) you should be safe enough to survive some shooting. try to get a proximity bomb as close to them as possible in front of them to force them to break formation. If he ionises the Slave he can only do it with 1 additional tie this turn and your ties are free to close in and take the ys under fire. If he ions the ties you turn slave1 and it should get at least 2 turns of fire from the y-wings back. The interceptor is there to try to bumper car the ys to steal their actions or to flank/hunt down the a-wing.
Problems could occur if hes god damn good with his a-wing to block slave1s actions. Other than that he kinda has a target priority problem.

At least in theory.

Will try this later and tell you about it

This message was edited 12 times. Last update was at 2013/06/04 16:29:06


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Misery. Missouri. Who can tell the difference.

Asteroids do hurt the Ion Wheel, it happened to me. I was all set on keeping my formation through the asteroids but made one wrong turn and reduced the strength of the formation by a third. My opponent range the same as above in that list but vader instead of the the TIE/LNs. Vader bit it hard but the interceptor with stealth and staying at 3 kept him out of Ion range.

Because the Asteroids took four turns for the formation to come together the Firespray could go back and fourth those turns weakening the Ys shields. But once the formation came together they were able to force the imps around the board but the damage was already done.

The Ion Wheel really needs the first several turns in formation to really work. But I also did findout that homing missles rock.

251 point Khador Army
245 points Ret Army

Warmachine League Record: 85 Wins 29 Losses
A proud member of the "I won with Zerkova" club with and without Sylss.

 
   
Made in de
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon






 Pipboy101 wrote:
Asteroids do hurt the Ion Wheel, it happened to me. I was all set on keeping my formation through the asteroids but made one wrong turn and reduced the strength of the formation by a third. My opponent range the same as above in that list but vader instead of the the TIE/LNs. Vader bit it hard but the interceptor with stealth and staying at 3 kept him out of Ion range.

Because the Asteroids took four turns for the formation to come together the Firespray could go back and fourth those turns weakening the Ys shields. But once the formation came together they were able to force the imps around the board but the damage was already done.

The Ion Wheel really needs the first several turns in formation to really work. But I also did findout that homing missles rock.


I normally have a lot of fun with the game but since i started playing ion wheel im having a blast. Those pesky tie spam players cant beat me at the moment. Had 3 games tonight against mostly similar tie spam lists and won all of them with exactly 1 Y-Wing casualty. Its just hilarious. Tank their damage 1 turn and watch them float to their death in following turns.

I think i will try playing imperium against that list myself to see if i can break it and get better with playing it myself. I think i need 2 more firesprays soon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/06 01:41:09


 
   
Made in ca
[DCM]
Acolyte of Goodwin






Sunny SoCal

Just played through the missions in the rulebook for a laugh, pretty cool, though damn, the more I play as rebel the more I think Tie's are just too agile, they are ridiculously hard to shoot down even in a one on one!

They are on par dice wise or advantaged in almost all situations with an x-wing, but the critical difference is that they have 3 additonal ways to mitigate their already prodigious agility, focus, evade, barrel roll... Meaning while my x-wing has a max of 3 hits (4 in band 1), the tie can get themselves chances of the equivalent of 6 dice in some situations (focus) or 4 dies guaranteed (3 plus evade)... Just very tough to kill these buggers it seems, even with no shields.

To me, it is starting to seem like 2 things should happen -

1st - ties should go down to hull 2.
2nd - barrel roll should be considered a red manoeuvre.

I doubt this will happen, and it is still a very enjoyable game, but in a 1 on 1 situation I think the x-wing for the points should be much more likely to kill a tie than it is as it stands.

What do you guys think on that? I know Imperials are generally considered the stronger faction by most, but what about house rule remedies to that?

   
Made in ca
Plastictrees





Calgary, Alberta, Canada

 MajorTom11 wrote:
I know Imperials are generally considered the stronger faction by most


That's not my personal experience or a reflection of what I've seen discussed online. The Tie swarm was considered a strong list in wave 1 but the vocal top players seemed to have moved away from it.
Yes Ties can be hard to hit, but your x-wing can also one shot them, and if they are using focus defensively or evade then they aren't helping out their limp wristed attack.
If your opponents are consistently using barrel roll to significant advantage then they are just really good at the game.
You can also be focusing and/or target locking with your X-wing to increase your chances to roll hits so your dice analysis seems one sided. The attacker is already at an advantage at 6 of 8 sides hitting with focus as opposed to 5 of 8 evading with focus.

I guess I'm just not seeing the imbalance that you are.
   
Made in ca
[DCM]
Acolyte of Goodwin






Sunny SoCal

Tie spam wouldn't be so viable though if the ships were priced right though, don't you think?

Regardless, just as a note contributing to my opinion lol, I have been rolling like god himself hates me the last few games lol

   
Made in ca
Bounding Black Templar Assault Marine




Winnipeg, Canada

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Tie spam wouldn't be so viable though if the ships were priced right though, don't you think?

Regardless, just as a note contributing to my opinion lol, I have been rolling like god himself hates me the last few games lol


Relax. God loves you. The dice can be cruel, however. I remember in one battle that all I could roll were blanks so at the end of the round most of my ships still had their focus tokens because I couldn't even roll focuses! Sad, but not a sign of Divine persecution.

As for the TIE swarms, they are a force to be reckoned with and usually there is in every tournament at least one TIE swarm in the top three, but more and more Rebel squads are in the top with a Falcon. In the last tournie I was in, there were a lot of TIE swarms at the bottom as well as the top and lots of YT-1300s flying victoriously. So, still a balanced game.
   
Made in ca
Plastictrees





Calgary, Alberta, Canada

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Tie spam wouldn't be so viable though if the ships were priced right though, don't you think?

Regardless, just as a note contributing to my opinion lol, I have been rolling like god himself hates me the last few games lol


I remember seeing someone breaking down ffg's Xwing point system, which showed that the Ties cost had been artificially _increased_ to 12 based on play testing.

Have you played as the empire yet?
   
Made in ca
[DCM]
Acolyte of Goodwin






Sunny SoCal

Yes, never lost with em... Gotta say PT looking around a few boards few people seem to share your opinion, most favor imperial swarm, at least v rebels from what I can see.

   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

I've argued from my first three games that imperials are superior. Maneuverability, kill the 360 degree shooters, and your barrel rolls will win you the game. If they can't shoot you, they can't beat you. I'm still unsure as to why Turr Phennar isn't in every imperial list-guy is 6 shades of busted.

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.  
   
 
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