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Hey I did not really know were to put this thread but there is a guy at my club who consistantly cheats and I really dont know how to call it on him, I know this guy pretty good we have known each other for about a year, but he always either changes the roll of a dice if he needed by 1 or 2 more to get off a spell or say he has a movment banner in a unit that charged when he was an inch or two back, This is really frustrating for me because we have known each other for a while. I have tried to ignore these happenings until a game I played with him yesteday, I play skaven and he plays high elves, he runs 35 white lions 35 pheonix guard and 15 or 20 silver helms and some characters both the pheonix guard and white lions had either magic resistance or the [Mod Edit - please find another way to express yourself - thanks! Alpharius] banner of the world dragon, anyway he was kicking my ass because he kept giving himself wardsaves and my little rats just could not kill them. Anyway on one of the magic phases he rolled a spell and got miscast he then rolled the result it was four I saw it he saw it and he hen quickly pulled it back and rolled if his wizard was sucked into the warp he rolled a 3 and removed the model angrily then looked at the table ans said wait 5 is small template and put back his wizard I tried to argue that it was a 4 he rolled and that his wizard was gone but he was to stubborn so I just dropped it and watched my army slowly crumble. I found this ridiculous that he would lie like that to my face... I dont know how to procede with this I dont know if I should confront him on it or? has anyone else ever had this problem and how have you handled it Id appeciate feedback.

Confront him about it, just dont go super mad about it but ask him ¨Why¨ He feels he need the advantage to lie/cheat
It's a game of dice afterall it can't allways go the way you want, that's the big part of the game randomness wich is fun even if it goes bad for you

If he continues after a chat.. you can tell your friend that you'd rather find other people to play.

What's the guys age? just to understand if there's either young blood cheaty guy.. or a Win at all cost dude.

I had a friend that would do similer things: measuring for charge distance, rolling one under and then remeasuring where he somehow makes it... its annoying for sure, cause you sont wanna start a problem, but dont want to be abused either.

A good way to combat that is to talk out the die roll needed after the action is declared, " you are x inches away, your total move is y, so you need z on the dice to make it in." And if he has the banner, have him declare it there and show you on the army list if needed.

Or, if there are other people to play, play them instead.

If the cheater asks why, tell him you prefer to play against honest opponents and not cheaters. No need to be confrontational or rude, just lay out the simple truth.

thanks for the input@ phatonic hes like 23 and im 16 if it happens again ill call him on it I guess ove talked to other people from my club and they said they have notices these things to.

I'd've quit on the spot. Never tolerate that kind of behavior. What's the point in playing a game with someone who cheats?

Simply playing other people is always the best way. That is, if there are indeed other people to play which you, by mention of a "club" imply there is.

This method would hopefully make him see sense if he begins to struggle to find an opponent for a game, and maybe he'll change his ways. It also stops you getting into silly rows about dice rolls, so you can hopefully remain friends.

Sounds like you need to slow the guy down and confirm with him what he needs to roll and when.

measure distances and agree on charge range BEFORE he rolls
or if he rolls a 3-4 whatever say you see a 3-4 before he picks up his dice again.

if he cant do that don't play with him, call him out on shenanigans and be done with it. iv had people do things like this in 40k all the time and it gets old quick

Just be straight with him, call him out when these things pop up, and with my friends, we always make lists ahead of time so we can look at eachothers list, So you could always have him do that so he's not doing 2600-2500 etc

Or have him play against another player, who will stop him.

Kill, Maim, Burn!

the Dread-sock is always a good method of discipline.

You'll need to get your hands on an old metal dreadnought and one sturdy sock.

Then there's the rulebook smack, its right on so many levels. Works better with the full size rulebook.

Remember the limited edition clear dice GW did a while back?

I was playing in a 700pt doubles tourny a warhammerworld a while back and the people i was playing against had 1 clear dice which they were using for all their important dice rolls. Suffice to say, these dice are hard to read at a distance, and this combined with the fact they were pulling it away quickly, meant that they were rolling favorably for everything, When we called them on it, they got arsy.
Best part? A TO saw what was going on and we auto won that game. Sweet sweet victory.

I always make sure my opponent has an army list, and I also like all the dice to be rolled in plain sight of both players. Most of the time if the person is obviously cheating, I'll just quit and not play with them again.

This is really a no-brainer.

"Mate, I don't want to come across like a tool, but you're playing super shady. If you don't stop don't expect me to play against you anymore"

Anything less than a "Sorry dude, sure" and it's exit stage left.

I'd suggest giving him a warning that the constant cheating has gotten dull, but if it happens again just refuse to play him and get as many other people from your group on board with the boycott as possible. After a couple of weeks/months of not getting to play anyone, he'll either quit the hobby (in which case good riddance, there's no place in this hobby for people who cheat at toy soldiers) or shape himself up.

Most important, I would say, would be to give him the opportunity to come back into the group and make amends- exclude him for a little while, but then let him demonstrate he can behave as an adult. If he can, then you've made a valuable addition to the group. If he can't, then you've lost nothing of value.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but I read this as an adult trying to take advantage of a kid. I think your best bet is to follow the suggestion to not play him anymore. We play this game to have fun, and dealing with cheaters is never enjoyable.

If you choose to confront him directly, enlist a couple of club mates (they sound like they would be sympathetic) to help.

A warning will not reform this kind of flagrant cheater. Just politely decline to play him.

If he's that obvious, just ask him if he knows his rules or if he is just that desperate for his little toy soldiers to win.

Cheating isn't usually that big of a problem so much as people forgeting their rules or how something works. Often though it's a good idea to find an outside person that isn't playing to have control over the template, the scatter of it (if there is one) and how many guys it can hit ;P.

MarsNZ wrote:
This is really a no-brainer.

"Mate, I don't want to come across like a tool, but you're playing super shady. If you don't stop don't expect me to play against you anymore"

Anything less than a "Sorry dude, sure" and it's exit stage left.

A thousand times this. If he is forced to play other people and he keeps it up, there will definitely be whispers behind his back and everyone will know he's a cheater and no one will want to play against him (except other cheaters - that's funny when it happens). At the store I play at, cheating almost never happens and if you are too much of a jerk too often then you won't get a game. We basically drive off the tools and encourage and keep around the cool people. And everybody knows where everybody stands.

 Vulcan wrote:
Or, if there are other people to play, play them instead.

If the cheater asks why, tell him you prefer to play against honest opponents and not cheaters. No need to be confrontational or rude, just lay out the simple truth.

The problem is that this will be interpreted as confrontational and possibly rude if you don't address it when it happens.

When you see mistakes / cheating / whatevs, call it out. If it happens enough to be aggravating and you don't want to play that person at a later date, then a better reaction is if the cheater asks you to play, you decline. If he asks you why - be honest. Say something like "Hey, the last couple times we played, we've had some disagreements about rules, and even what dice number we each rolled, or target numbers. I'd rather play a game with someone i'm confidant there won't be a handful of those disagreements, after all this is a game and the point is to have fun, and i don't have fun arguing with someone over whether they rolled a 3 or a 5. "

Say it with a smile, and don't be condescending, and he'll get the point (or move to another game group once enough people do it).


The problem is, ex post facto, if someone comes up to you on the next game night and says "lets get a game", and you refuse, and claim its because of past cheating never addressed, you are giving the cheater the out. He can then get magnanimous on his high horse and say "hey man, what's your problem, if you think i cheated, then why didn't you point it out? i probably just made a mistake". Hindsight being what it is, it's going to be basically impossible to convince the cheater otherwise - at the end of the day, cheating is lying, and if you leave a liar even a razor thin out, they'll take it.


So the solution is to call out the cheating / mistakes / problematic rolls etc., right then and there, calmly politely. If he doesn't stop, find a good way to say "i'd rather play someone i won't have to have a dozen disagreements with.", and move on. If you let it go, unfortunately you lose the high ground so to speak, and it looks petty if you bring up, later, issues you didn't address at the time.

-- Haight

I'm going to echo what other people have said, plus, going by the information you've supplied about his list, get a legal army, . He needs at least 567.5 points in core. 20 silver helms with full command and shields is 490. Unless he has no upgrades on his specials, which translates to the minimum core being 490.