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First time playing Eldar last night and a long time since I've played Hardcore Countraaaaay John too. John's list has 101 scatter laser shots, my Rhinos are going to feel the pain I think!

Chaos Space Marines 'God Awful' - 2,000 points

HQ

Chaos Sorcerer - terminator armour, melta bombs & gift of mutation
Chaos Sorcerer - terminator armour, melta bombs & gift of mutation

Troops

5 x Chaos Space Marines w/ Rhino - plasma gun
5 x Chaos Space Marines w/ Rhino - plasma gun
5 x Chaos Space Marines w/ Rhino - plasma gun
5 x Chaos Space Marines w/ Rhino - meltagun
5 x Chaos Space Marines w/ Rhino - meltagun
5 x Chaos Space Marines w/ Rhino - meltagun

Fast Attack

Heldrake - baleflamer
Heldrake - baleflamer

Heavy Support

2 x Obliterators - mark of nurgle
2 x Obliterators - mark of nurgle
2 x Obliterators - mark of nurgle
Chaos Vindicator - daemonic possession
Chaos Vindicator - daemonic possession

Total: 2,001

Eldar 'Craftworld Vagisil' - 2,000 points

HQ

Eldrad

Elites

5 x Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked scatter lasers, shuriken cannon & holofield
5 x Fire Dragons w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked scatter lasers, shuriken cannon & holofield

Troops

5 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked scatter lasers, shuriken cannon & holofield
5 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent - Serpent w/ twin-linked scatter lasers, shuriken cannon & holofield
10 x Guardians
3 x Windrider Jetbikes

Fast Attack

5 x Warp Spiders

Heavy Support

3 x War Walkers - 6 x scatter lasers
3 x War Walkers - 6 x scatter lasers
3 x War Walkers - 6 x star cannons

Total: 2,001

Game: Dawn of War & Big Guns Never Tire - night fighting is not active

Deployment

I roll for psychic powers and my warlord gets enfeeble and crusader for gift. Other Sorcerer gets haemorrage and I cannot remember the gift.

I get night attacker warlord asset and make it night fighting

I win the roll off and go first. I place my army in the centre so I can fire at Eldar no matter where they deploy. Obliterators go at the front with Sorcerers attached to a unit on either flank, Vindies behind with melta Rhinos in between and plasma Rhinos behind.

John deploys with his units spread and using ruins wisely. Every unit has some form of ruins for cover. Dragon units are both on the left flank with other Serpents spread about, War Walkers form up in the centre more or less with Eldrad on foot.







* Tactical Notes

The War Walkers are my highest priority and the damn things are a pain in the arse; they fire a gak load of shots and now hit on a 3+ and also they are pretty survivable thanks to squadron rules and they now get a 5+ inv.

Fire Dragons are next, I do not want them rocking up and nuking my Vindicators. Hopefully I can stop them in their tracks before they get closer. I suspect with a 3+ armour save they will take more punishment.

After those units have been taken care off I'll go for Eldrad and Avengers.

I suspect all this will be easier said than done, hopefully I can get some early damage if I concentrate on a single War Walker unit.

Turn 1

John attempts to seize and fails.

I move my units up, though do not advance too much as the Obliterators block my way.

Shooting; Rhino which has moved 12" on the left flank uses search light to light up War Walkers straight ahead behind a small ruin, Oblits all fire lascannons and each unit only hits once, out of those I score two glances and a single pen, John only fails a single glance save. Remaining Rhinos pop smoke along with Vindies while two Rhinos on the right flank move flat out to engage War Walkers before they get popped open and shot to death.

Eldar; A Dragon Serpent comes down the left flank while Warp Spiders comes down the right flank. Remaining Serpents move a little to make most of holofield while War Walkers pop out to say hello. Eldrad casts guide on a War Walker unit.

Shooting; Dragon Serpent moves flat out landing behind my lines. War Walkers fire at the Rhino what has lit itself up, it is wrecked and then the squad inside is slaughtered. A Rhino on the left flank is also wrecked by the other Dragon Serpent bow wave, squad gets shot by War Walkers and two survive. War Walkers run and get back into cover, though one unit on the right is out in the open.




* Tactical Notes

Right, I have taken more of a pounding than I wanted. I expect one Rhino to go, but to lose another and then practically lose two squads is pretty painful. Even my Oblits took some pain and more rubbish saves popped up.

Next turn I'll move two melta units to deal with the Dragon Serpent behind me and sent the lone Obliterator to sort it out. I'll use a Rhino flat out to cover the rear of the Vindie on the left. Squads on the right will move up, hopefully Heldrakes will come in and burn some Warp Spiders and get some vector strikes in.

Turn 2

Both Heldrakes rock up and come flying 36" down the right flank.

CSM; depleted squad on the left moves up with support from a Rhino, squad disembarks with plasma at the ready. Oblits with warlord try to go through terrain and I roll a 1 and 2, great. Vindie on the right flank tries to move into terrain, guess what? It gets immobilised. Remaining Oblits move up the centre between terrain pieces while single Oblit moves to fist the flat out moving Dragon Serpent with melta support - due to tank blocks I cannot get the second melta unit into range.

Shooting; one Heldrake vector strikes the Warp Spiders, I get two hits and kill one, luckily they are all destroyed by baleflamer. Other Heldrake flames some War Walkers but does precisely bugger all. Vindicator drops a shell on War Walkers though War Walker saves, Oblits drop plasma cannons and both shots completely scatter. Plasma guns fire and I manage to score weapon destroyed on one unit, whoopie doo. Other Vindie drops a shell on the War Walkers which took damage first turn, as the War Walkers have moved there's a full hull point one at the front, which is immobilised. Oblits try to finish it off with assault cannons, I hit loads but roll everything under 4 to cause damage....The single Oblit blasts the Wave Serpent with twin-linked melta, holofield gives a 3+ cover save, which John saves. I did want the supporting unit to bolter the Dragons, but that's not going to happen, so melta fires at the Serpent and misses, yeah.

Assault; Oblit charges the Serpent hits twice and scores a single glance, groovy.

John rolls reserves and both Guardian units arrive, Guardians come by the War Walkers out in the open on the right flank while the Jetbikes come down the left flank.

Eldar; Eldrad casts guide on War Walkers and dooms my Heldrake, then gets inside a Serpent for safety. Dragons bail out the Serpent which has taken damage and target the lone Oblit while their Serpent targets the rear armour of the Vindie as like a noob I didn't cover the rear with a flat out move from the Rhino. I think that's about it.

Shooting; The doomed Heldrake absorbs a gak load of fire power, but John rolls a gak load of sixes (about 9) and then it goes down. Guardians blast and kill CSM who got out their Rhino on the right flank - two left who pass morale. Serpent rear ends the Vindie on the left as the Dragons slag the Oblit. Rhino with squad inside supporting the Vindie comes under fire and takes a glance after John rolls badly with the bow wave from a Eldrad's Serpent even though he got seven hits.







* Tactical Notes

Ouch! The Eldar are really kicking my ass, doesn't help with some added crappy dice rolls and noob mistakes like forgetting to cover my rear armour on my Vindie - doh!

The Serpents are pretty bad ass and kicking my ass, I need to disable them as quickly as possible, though the War Walkers also give me bonus victory points and I need to take them down as they will continue to destroy my units.

Turn 3

Remaining Heldrake turns 90 degrees and flies over a unit of War Walkers. Melta CSM who was supporting the single Oblit move up to assault the Fire Dragons while my last two Rhinos of troops hold the objective in the centre. Oblits move forward in the centre while the warlord's Oblits move up towards the right flank to support my remaining CSM.

Shooting; Heldrake vector strikes War Walkers and takes one out, it then burns the Guardians, I catch all 10 but roll 5 1's! Vindicator drops a shell on them and still one remains who rolls double 1 to pass morale! Oblits with the warlord on the right fire assault cannons into the two War Walkers, though only one goes down as they can only draw LOS on one. Remaining Oblits fire into an immobilised War Walker which was abandoned by the squad, multi meltas fail, but twin-linked bolters from nearby Rhinos finish it off and I get a point, yes, woooooo! lol.

Assault; CSM charge the Dragons, combat is a draw.

Eldar; solo Guardian moves to objective in ruin top right corner. War Walkers move over to the ruin, looks like some battle focus cover running coming up. Dragons who have been hanging back rock up in their Serpent and bail out, they are out of melta range on a Rhino, but with 5 x S8 AP1 shots it doesn't really matter. Dragon's empty Serpent moves over to the next Vindie as can spot the rear armour and it is already immobilised thanks to failing a terrain test.

Shooting; War Walkers fire and score 13 saves on the remaining CSM on the right flank and they are dead, solo War Walker fires into oncoming Obliterators and scores three wounds, I roll two 1's and an Oblit dies. Dragons fire into the closest Rhino to them, it goes boom, two dudes die and squad is pinned. Eldrad's Wave Serpent fires into the supporting Rhino, also goes boom and squad is also pinned. Empty Serpent fires into Vindicator, manages to stun it, which I save with daemonic possession - has a single hull point left so not likely it is going to do a fat lot.

Assault; Dragons lose assault but remain locked in close combat.






* Tactical Notes

Eldar are currently spanking my ass; I have just lost two Rhinos and both squads are pinned, a CSM squad has gone, Obliterators cannot make three saves and my Heldrake has gone. I am surprised my Vindicator is still around, though I am sure it will not be for long!

Looking at the game is probably in John's hands, if my CSM in the centre survive then I can get the two objectives in the centre. I will also need to split and run my warlord to the top right and should kill the Guardian on that objective or at least contest.

Turn 4

CSM; Warlord splits from the solo Oblit, both move up the right flank, Oblit goes to single War Walker while Sorcerer goes towards the objective. Yeah, that's about it for me.

Shooting; Oblit fires into the War Walker and it has a single hull point left. Both pinned CSM units fire into the Dragons, two die, though they pass morale. I forget to run my warlord as I am a noob...

Assault; combat is a draw and all saves are made in Dragons versus CSM. Oblit manages to charge the War Walker and total it, yes I bag another point .

Eldar; empty Serpent rolls up closed behind my immobilised Vindicator while another Serpent flys over the ruin on the left, Avengers bail out and claim that objective.

Shooting; Obliterator comes under fire from surviving War Walkers though is ok. Both pinned units are destroyed by Wave Serpent fire so the centre objective is free, but the Guardians shoot over and claim it. Empty Wave Serpent fires into the immobilised Vindicator and totals it.

Assault; I think Dragons lose this combat but still remain locked.



* Tactical Notes

Well, looks like my goose is cooked as I have no way of winning this. All objectives belong to Eldar and I have a single troop choice left along with my warlord and Obliterator. I have no way of getting any objectives.

Turn 5

We had originally agreed to play to turn 5, even though I have zero chance of at least scoring a draw I game on. Empty Rhino tank shocks the Fire Dragons in the centre for a laugh, it goes boom. I really cannot remember what the Obliterator did and my Warlord is still too far away to contest as I forgot to run on turn 4.

The lone Obliterator comes under fire again and survives.

At this point we end the game and Chaos Space Marines have 3 points (two heavy choices destroyed and linebreaker) while Eldar get 15 (three objectives, first blood, linebreaker and destroyed four heavy choices)

Crushing victory for the Eldar!

Summary

Well, that felt like I had been violated by a black man with no lube! The Eldar are much improved and while slightly more expensive points wise they are will worth it. The Wave Serpents are extremely deadly and the War Walkers cause some massive damage out put, they don't even need guide that much as they are BS4 now.

I think also my dice didn't want to work as my Obliterators couldn't save very well and Heldrakes didn't want to stay in the air, though to be fair John did hit nine times with a single War Walker unit! Double pinned CSM units didn't help either. Ah well, it is a dice game, gak happens.

Also doesn't help I made noob mistakes too; I didn't cover rear armour with flat out moving Rhino and I didn't run my warlord when split off - doh!

Considering John hasn't played 40k for sometime he played really well. Hugging cover worked great as it meant War Walkers can jump back in thanks to battle focus (shoot and run) while Serpents are pretty survivable thanks to holofields and can put out a decent amount of shots thanks to the bow wave fire.

Next time, Gadget, next time!

That was a bad day for the forces of Chaos. Eldar seem like they are back on form with the new codex. BS4 Warwalkers sounds very painful.

Wtf, looks like Eldar are massively overpowered now, good job GW, good job!

Metallicarule wrote:
Wtf, looks like Eldar are massively overpowered now, good job GW, good job!

Nono, CSM is crap, besides some obvious things to play..., sorry mercer but that list will loose to a lot of things out there, rhino rush is 5e not 6e

 Valek wrote:

Metallicarule wrote:
Wtf, looks like Eldar are massively overpowered now, good job GW, good job!

Nono, CSM is crap, besides some obvious things to play..., sorry mercer but that list will loose to a lot of things out there, rhino rush is 5e not 6e

I was the Eldar player in the report dude, I just like to make fun of Mercer lol.

 Valek wrote:


Nono, CSM is crap, besides some obvious things to play..., sorry mercer but that list will loose to a lot of things out there, rhino rush is 5e not 6e

This. I think the CSM list has too much invested into small, not durable units that put out not enough damage at a short range. The 6 Rhino squads eats points but I don't see them doing that much.

I would love to see a rematch. I definitely think Mercer could beat that list second time around. A power sword here and there in your troops could have possibly made a difference I think.

Is there any reason the Chaos player has 5 heavy choices, or am I missing something?

RB

Good match. Really bad luck for the forces of Chaos, but I'm sure through some clever Eldar trickery they loaded your dice.

RB wrote:
Is there any reason the Chaos player has 5 heavy choices, or am I missing something?

RB

Double FOC at 2k.

@Mercer, i have been looking at your list and what you want to accomplish.

If you want to play this sort of list you will need to play Abbadon, so you can get chosen and you have at least 2 special weapons minimum in a squad.

Abbadon with the recent errata's is much better and you can deepstrike him with some Oblits which is quite hard.

I don't like double FOC game but very interesting report.
Thanks

GiraffeX wrote:That was a bad day for the forces of Chaos. Eldar seem like they are back on form with the new codex. BS4 Warwalkers sounds very painful.

Yup, dice were cursed, but hey ho was nice to see what new Eldar can do

Metallicarule wrote:Wtf, looks like Eldar are massively overpowered now, good job GW, good job!

Mega broken

Valek wrote:

Metallicarule wrote:
Wtf, looks like Eldar are massively overpowered now, good job GW, good job!

Nono, CSM is crap, besides some obvious things to play..., sorry mercer but that list will loose to a lot of things out there, rhino rush is 5e not 6e

Yes, CSM are pretty pants. And yes my list is 5th with flyers jammed in, though I don't think there's a better way to run CSM if I am honest.

jifel wrote:

 Valek wrote:


Nono, CSM is crap, besides some obvious things to play..., sorry mercer but that list will loose to a lot of things out there, rhino rush is 5e not 6e

This. I think the CSM list has too much invested into small, not durable units that put out not enough damage at a short range. The 6 Rhino squads eats points but I don't see them doing that much.

I think I am going to switch to Chosen and give that a try. CSM only have Rhinos to use and squads of 10 inside a Rhino won't make much difference and on foot they would die all the same.

Dozer Blades wrote:I would love to see a rematch. I definitely think Mercer could beat that list second time around. A power sword here and there in your troops could have possibly made a difference I think.

With some better luck, yeah, maybe. Power swords are no good for my troops as I cannot charge out of a Rhino, so would have to bail out and sit there or wait until someone charges me. Plus half my units run plasma, so that's another reason why I cannot charge.

RB wrote:Is there any reason the Chaos player has 5 heavy choices, or am I missing something?

RB

Dual FOC, bud.

tanuvein wrote:Good match. Really bad luck for the forces of Chaos, but I'm sure through some clever Eldar trickery they loaded your dice.

I think so too

Valek wrote:@Mercer, i have been looking at your list and what you want to accomplish.

If you want to play this sort of list you will need to play Abbadon, so you can get chosen and you have at least 2 special weapons minimum in a squad.

Abbadon with the recent errata's is much better and you can deepstrike him with some Oblits which is quite hard.

Funny you mention that as I am going to have one last attempt at CSM and that is with Chosen. I have used Abaddon twice before and deep striking didn't work, can asault earliest turn 3 and can get delayed. I'll run him on foot in between the Chosen so they will get pref enemy if against Space Marine varities. Only difference is I am not going to use Obliterators and will be trying out Havocs, when I used three units of these last time they worked well for me. I'll also be running some Chaos Spawn too.

tetsuo666 wrote:I don't like double FOC game but very interesting report.
Thanks

Double FOC is ok if people want to slip extra units in like I have done. It can be broken though if people use it to spam 12 Night Scythes though for example.

 mercer wrote:
Yes, CSM are pretty pants. And yes my list is 5th with flyers jammed in, though I don't think there's a better way to run CSM if I am honest.

 Valek wrote:
Nono, CSM is crap, besides some obvious things to play..., sorry mercer but that list will loose to a lot of things out there, rhino rush is 5e not 6e

Occasionally, check Reecius's batreps. Those guys live, eat and *work* 40k. There are better CSM builds. They include 3 Hellturkeys, dual gunned PlagueM squads Abby or Typhus & Oblits. No "Bag Me for FIrst Blood!" rhinos.

 mercer wrote:
I think I am going to switch to Chosen and give that a try. CSM only have Rhinos to use and squads of 10 inside a Rhino won't make much difference and on foot they would die all the same.

But 6e is a footie game. And gods no, not Chosen. Over priced and not any better than PlagueMs. My models have been assembled, but never really left the Dark Vengeance box.

I played against the new eldar yesterday, with my tau. WarWalkers are nuts-shooty now ... but Tau Missile-Sides are better. I easily bagged all 6 enemy walkers and won on KPs, so, though you pointed out how they're tougher, mercer, I'd say not so much.

Between the two newer armies, I won't say CSM are gak, but lacking in the same fire power (except Helldrakes) that eldar and tau have. I guess, CSM need to play to their strength, tougher units (Nurgle) and *get* into h2h ... though that's hella tough against a tau blob.

Brothererekose wrote:

 mercer wrote:
Yes, CSM are pretty pants. And yes my list is 5th with flyers jammed in, though I don't think there's a better way to run CSM if I am honest.

 Valek wrote:
Nono, CSM is crap, besides some obvious things to play..., sorry mercer but that list will loose to a lot of things out there, rhino rush is 5e not 6e

Occasionally, check Reecius's batreps. Those guys live, eat and *work* 40k. There are better CSM builds. They include 3 Hellturkeys, dual gunned PlagueM squads Abby or Typhus & Oblits. No "Bag Me for FIrst Blood!" rhinos.

 mercer wrote:
I think I am going to switch to Chosen and give that a try. CSM only have Rhinos to use and squads of 10 inside a Rhino won't make much difference and on foot they would die all the same.

But 6e is a footie game. And gods no, not Chosen. Over priced and not any better than PlagueMs. My models have been assembled, but never really left the Dark Vengeance box.

I played against the new eldar yesterday, with my tau. WarWalkers are nuts-shooty now ... but Tau Missile-Sides are better. I easily bagged all 6 enemy walkers and won on KPs, so, though you pointed out how they're tougher, mercer, I'd say not so much.

Between the two newer armies, I won't say CSM are gak, but lacking in the same fire power (except Helldrakes) that eldar and tau have. I guess, CSM need to play to their strength, tougher units (Nurgle) and *get* into h2h ... though that's hella tough against a tau blob.

Without Rhinos that stuff on foot will die and also lacks mobility. Rhinos don't always give up first blood either, many other things can such as Havocs or any other vehicle for that matter.

Chosen aren't too bad for the points cost. Plague Marines are very expensive for what you get though.

War Walkers are certainly move survivable than previously. I also don't think you've considered you're firing multiple S7 and S5 shots - a triple unit of Broadsides can pop out 12 S7 shots and 12 S5 shots, that amount of fire power can easily take out War Walkers.

Getting into combat isn't the best place for shooting units. Plus you cannot assault from a Rhino and if you're on foot as mentioned it will take you several turns to get into assault and would have depleted numbers too.

I like your list a lot more than anything with three hell turkeys.

: )

 mercer wrote:
Without Rhinos that stuff on foot will die and also lacks mobility. Rhinos don't always give up first blood either, many other things can such as Havocs or any other vehicle for that matter.

I agree in that I've gotta get the FWs moving on 3 or it's too late for objectives.

 mercer wrote:
Chosen aren't too bad for the points cost. Plague Marines are very expensive for what you get though.

I still disagree.

 mercer wrote:
War Walkers are certainly move survivable than previously. I also don't think you've considered you're firing multiple S7 and S5 shots - a triple unit of Broadsides can pop out 12 S7 shots and 12 S5 shots, that amount of fire power can easily take out War Walkers.

Yes. I know. Missile-sides are going to spoil me when it comes to dealing with light armor.

 mercer wrote:
Getting into combat isn't the best place for shooting units. Plus you cannot assault from a Rhino and if you're on foot as mentioned it will take you several turns to get into assault and would have depleted numbers too.

Another, majorly the key reason, that rhinos blows. Can't even assault when it gets destroyed and you move free and clear on the following turn. Man, that was a definite, "We're going to release a buncha xenos codexes, so you can stop buying power armor now."

The figure case at the FLGS has lotsa rhinos.

I think that rhinos can still work for Plague Marines and that's about it since they can withstand the most punishment. One full movement of the rhino plus a flatout can get them into key locations. Don't waste a lot of points for options on the rhinos. One of the major weaknesses of the CSM codex is the lack of a point efficient a reliable delivery system for Chaos Space Marines. There are lots of armies that can pop rhinos in a single turn.

Dozer Blades wrote:I like your list a lot more than anything with three hell turkeys.

: )

You know I am one for spamming stuff, but when I spam I spam multiple things i.e Venoms and Ravagers, Annhilation Barges and Ghost Arks. I don't feel spamming the Heldrake just to make my list good is valid. See the Heldrake is the best unit in the CSM codex and nothing comes close to it. I don't think it is right to rely on the Heldrake to destroy everything, that's not a very good codex or army.

Brothererekose wrote: Another, majorly the key reason, that rhinos blows. Can't even assault when it gets destroyed and you move free and clear on the following turn. Man, that was a definite, "We're going to release a buncha xenos codexes, so you can stop buying power armor now."

The figure case at the FLGS has lotsa rhinos.

No assaulting from a Rhino does suck major balls. This totally screwed up my beloved Razor-Angels army, gutted. Not being able to assault after is it destroyed is another kick in the nuts. And yeah, that's why I am feeling the love for xenos and Imperium armies feel alien to me, ironic isn't it? I am so used to fast armies and that have no restrictions on vehicles. My Dark Eldar are fast and shooty, so are my Necrons (not fast but shooty), Ravenwing fast and shooty and my past armies have been fast and shooty i.e Razor-Angels, Eldar etc. It's these slow imperium tanks which upset me. Plus I do feel xeno codices are damn cooler and more fun to play

On a further note, I do have some Dire Avengers sitting upstairs under my bed un-wrapped

Dozer Blades wrote:I think that rhinos can still work for Plague Marines and that's about it since they can withstand the most punishment. One full movement of the rhino plus a flatout can get them into key locations. Don't waste a lot of points for options on the rhinos. One of the major weaknesses of the CSM codex is the lack of a point efficient a reliable delivery system for Chaos Space Marines. There are lots of armies that can pop rhinos in a single turn.

I tried my Chosen list last night and I lost four Rhinos in two turns and this was down to two Devs units, single quad gun and a Stormraven.

 mercer wrote:

Dozer Blades wrote:I like your list a lot more than anything with three hell turkeys.

: )

You know I am one for spamming stuff, but when I spam I spam multiple things i.e Venoms and Ravagers, Annhilation Barges and Ghost Arks. I don't feel spamming the Heldrake just to make my list good is valid. See the Heldrake is the best unit in the CSM codex and nothing comes close to it. I don't think it is right to rely on the Heldrake to destroy everything, that's not a very good codex or army.

If you like to SPAM:

Then consider spamming Typhus Zombies in a list.

I've played 5 games with them so far, and those buggers just surprise the hell outta me.

I'm thinking of a list like this:
Typhus
Huron (to get his warlord Infiltrator thing)

2x 30-man Zombie
1 or 2 10-man Zombie

2x HellTurkey

2x Defilers

For Allies (Daemon):
GUO or DP with wings and Psykers/Rewards (Balesword?) leaning towards the DP.
Plaguebearer
SoulGrinder /w warpgaze.

Some iteration of that...

Meh. Sorry, dude, but that's not what I am looking for. Zombies are only good for tarpit and Defilers are too expensive junk.

Soul Grinder with warpgaze isn't very good as only 50/50 chance of hitting.