Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am sure most are aware of the dropping popularity of Fantasy, Many stores have reported it dropped of their top ten sellers chart, GW them selves groups it with their rest of their revenue (licensing, forge world, black library so on) as making about 50% of its revenue (to which one can only assume Fantasy is just a portion of that), the other half being 40k.

Could GW end up axing Fantasy?.

They could, but they won't. It is a flagship product.

If Fantasy sales dropped off a cliff, you'd probably see them try to salvage it with a new rules edition rather than scrap it. They have a crap ton of money invested in it.

12thRonin wrote:
They could, but they won't. It is a flagship product.

Weren't Epic and Lord of The Rings?

Granted LOTR 'became' The Hobbit, but still.

Weren't Epic and Lord of The Rings?

No. Epic's heyday was back when you could still by SpaceHulk in toy stores and GW sold several other board games in addition to Fantasy and 40k. Epic, like Blood Bowl, was a popular product, but not a flagship. LoTR was just suppose to be a cash cow.

Here's my question - Is Fantasy really dropping off? At least where I am, there's more Fantasy players (almost 2 or 3 to one ratio) than even 40k players. I'm sure on the whole, 40k probably has much bigger sales numbers, but what makes you think Fantasy is dying?

12thRonin wrote:
They could, but they won't. It is a flagship product.

Fantasy is certainly NOT their flagship product, 40k is, and has been for a while now as the numbers show.

A few stores released 3 year top 10 sellers and WFB has fallen off that list in the last year.

It fluctuates at any rate, given edition releases and which armies come when.

It is certainly not dying.

Tycho wrote:

Weren't Epic and Lord of The Rings?

No. Epic's heyday was back when you could still by SpaceHulk in toy stores and GW sold several other board games in addition to Fantasy and 40k. Epic, like Blood Bowl, was a popular product, but not a flagship. LoTR was just suppose to be a cash cow.

Here's my question - Is Fantasy really dropping off? At least where I am, there's more Fantasy players (almost 2 or 3 to one ratio) than even 40k players. I'm sure on the whole, 40k probably has much bigger sales numbers, but what makes you think Fantasy is dying?

Anecdotal data provided on different ocations by several store owners and GW own admition that is does not make a significant part of their revenew, at least not significant enough as to bunch it up with everything else that is not 40k

But i do agree as long as it is not in the RED, they are unlikely to axe it. Question is, how far away from it, it is?.

According to the number collectors(ICv2) for the US, Fantasy is still the #4 selling non-collectible miniatures line as of 2012. There's no way GW's dropping that.

Edit: found the latest, it actually slipped to number 4, X-wing blazed through the list last Fall to take #2 from Warmachine.

xxvaderxx wrote:

12thRonin wrote:
They could, but they won't. It is a flagship product.

Fantasy is certainly NOT their flagship product, 40k is, and has been for a while now as the numbers show.

It is a flagship product, not the flagship product.

Well, they're not going to just ditch one of their best known brands. Even if 40K is the most popular, that doesn't mean dropping WHFB is going to mean all those WHFB players just go over to 40K. There are people who play both, and people who only play one game and ignore the other.

I honestly think that GW would not benefit in any way at all if they dropped WHFB, and I also don't think they have any need to.

Fantasy NEEDS a total re-vamp.

The rules are set up to reward the model purchaser, not the model player.

I know its a miniature game, and GW is in the business of selling miniatures, but if no-one wants to play the GAME, no one will buy the MINIATURES.

Toumas Perinin wrote the most comprehensive set of WFB rules to date.

But will GW dump Fantasy? -- NOPE.
They use fantasy to test out the new concepts for 40k.

ahhh, this thread again...

Look, GW can do whatever it wants with its products. Just because certain stores are not seeing it move off the shelves doesn't mean it doesn't sell, it just means they aren't selling it there. Fantasy was big in my area, then it dropped off after 8th. Maybe poor timing, maybe bad version, who knows?

GW will reinvent fantasy as much as they have to; they will not drop it. Whoever said it was a flagship product was right; maybe not in sales but in recognition.
Anyone remember Warmaster? It was like Epic but WHFB...and died a well deserved death long ago. 40k being immensely more popular is not a new thing.

They would be stupid to drop WHFB...any company would be stupid to drop one of their two biggest products.

The game would have to hit a major low, 0% sales despite revamps, for them to consider dropping it, in my honest opinion.

Generally speaking, I think that 40k has a more broad appeal than fantasy. It's more unique in its aesthetic, fluff and gameplay. Locally, most stores have a significantly larger 40k playerbase with a single exception. At the store I frequent, there's a fantasy game once every month, sometimes less, with a half dozen people owning a single army. The 40k crowd is over 40, with many owning multiple armies, and the product movement reflects this.

At the end of the day, Fantasy is the more expensive game to get in to, the current edition is overly reliant on the magic phase, and the core gameplay can be experienced in a wide variety of cheaper mediums, whether that be historical wargames, or computer games (The Total War series combat mechanics are almost the exact same, just more intricate).

40k is cheaper, faster and, I feel, a more dynamic game to play. That doesn't mean, however, fantasy is going to be dropped.

The rumourmill is indicating fantasy is being condensed; bulk army books and the like, and GW has been heavily favouring 40k in this release cycle. I think GW is finally willing to admit, at least to itself, that fantasy isn't #1 anymore; they're not going to axe it, but I also don't think they're willing to invest the time and money in reinvigorating it at this point.

Sure, they could. Absolutely.

They won't, though. Like others have said, they'd most likely attempt to give it a big shot in the arm with a new edition than kill it off. If they DID axe it, they would be axing one of their two biggest IPs and I think it would send a terrible sign to investors.

Sure GW can axe fantasy. And you better believe other companies will move into the void but quick, to pick up all the disgruntled WFB players.

 RatBot wrote:
If they DID axe it, they would be axing one of their two biggest IPs and I think it would send a terrible sign to investors.

This is the most important factor. GW can get away with dumping the specialist games because, whether or not an informed investor would see it as a stupid move, they can just present it as "cleaning up redundant product lines" or whatever. And most of their investors don't care enough to dig deeply into the company and consider what potential for a re-launch may or may not have existed, and whether GW's neglect of the line was a good thing. But if GW drops a "core" game there's no way to make it look good and even a casual look at the company will have the investors worrying.

 Vulcan wrote:
Sure GW can axe fantasy. And you better believe other companies will move into the void but quick, to pick up all the disgruntled WFB players.

Privateer Press already seems to have done this in a big way. Warmachine/Hordes have gone from unranked to higher-than-Fantasy in the last 5 years or so.

 AustonT wrote:
Anyone remember Warmaster? It was like Epic but WHFB...and died a well deserved death long ago.

Why a well deserved death? The game was solid with a great ruleset. It just wasn't supported properly by the company and left in a corner whilst they pushed the 28mm version.

Fantasy won't be going anywhere, regardless of how bad the sales get. They'll just keep revamping it with rule patches and trying to make it more appealing.

Make a fantasy set skirmish game to get people buying the minis and into the setting, then they could build up to a small fantasy army & work from there. Something like Mordheim maybe....................

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
ahhh, this thread again...

Look, GW can do whatever it wants with its products. Just because certain stores are not seeing it move off the shelves doesn't mean it doesn't sell, it just means they aren't selling it there. Fantasy was big in my area, then it dropped off after 8th. Maybe poor timing, maybe bad version, who knows?

Ahhh, this comment again....

Solo, you know what you don't have to do; right?

If they did then they would be commiting coporate suicide. Fantasy, even with the current "randomhammer" rules set is still a core game and very much played. Dropping it would be like cutting off there left arm and right leg.

Most of the people talking about a drop off in Fantasy seem to be from America. Locally to me (Southampton, UK) I've seen a renewed interest since 8th - lots of older players (from 3rd,4th&5th) returning and a fair few new starters.

I think over here 8th has sold pretty well. It's probably very variable dependent on local factors.

Epic was core.

Anyway, no, they won't cut Fantasy. I just can't see it.

pgmason wrote:
Most of the people talking about a drop off in Fantasy seem to be from America. Locally to me (Southampton, UK) I've seen a renewed interest since 8th - lots of older players (from 3rd,4th&5th) returning and a fair few new starters.

I think over here 8th has sold pretty well. It's probably very variable dependent on local factors.

A fellow Southampton person

I think Fantasy is very popular over here, at the gaming club I go to most of the battle being played are always fantasy. I think that the recent releases of All the new 40K stuff is making it seem as though Fantasy is falling by the way side as it is being overshadowed by these new releases. But I cant see GW ever getting rid of it, there are far to many Fantasy players out there.

Epic was a flagship before, and then it got reduced and now removed when it did not sell as expected. The same could happen to any game system.

However, I think GW would put a bit of work into trying to "save" it first. Too many resources have already been put into the product as sunk costs.

I can't imagine it would ever be axed. At most they might scale back releases and development of it but it is still the flagship product and still a huge seller.

I think it needs streamlining and a lower entry cost. It is still popular in many areas. Near me there's a store with a large, healthy Fantasy crowd, but a poor 40k crowd.

They kinda run out of flagship products if they just keep slicing game systems off. I think sheer inertia prevents them from ever axing fantasy. Cutting fantasy would basically be this giant admission that GW is in full on death spiral.