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So i'm just wondering if anyone has had much experience with using Chaos Havoc squads and if they can recommend, or otherwise, there incorporation into my army.

Just starting out so my army is only 500 points at the moment and i'm playing solely against Tyranids. I've had problems facing my opponents Flyrant and need something with enough firepower to take him down before he reaches my lines. So i'm thinking Havocs with 4 ACs - as the Flakk launchers are a tad expensive at this low point game. I'm thinking 8 s7 shots would have a decent chance of getting him to roll a few grounding saves, and if he fails just one my lord and oblits can finish him off on the ground

Any advice or total criticism is most welcome

Havocs I think are almost a must have in any chaos army. Bringing them with 4 AC's is pretty much the ideal package for them. 4 LC's isn't bad either for the cost, but at 500pts, I think the AC's would be much better.

At low point values, 4 AC Havocs are great. In higher point games I like to do 2x10 Havocs, with 4 Las and 4 Auto cannons

In a 500-1000 point game, you'll see a variety of units that 4x Autocannons will do a number on. Do eeet! I prefer to have a couple of normal dudes for ablative wounds before losing the heavy weapons in Devastator squads and Havoc squads, but season to taste, as it were.

Consider taking VotLW to keep them in the battle longer.

Cheers for the replies guys - looks like the ACs were a good idea :-)

Talking about survivability I was thinking of surrounding them with a group of cheap cultists to try and keep them in the game longer. Is this a viable option?

I think it may be better to add in extra havoc bodies. They are 13pts each but 3+ armor save compared to Cultists 6+.

I wouldn't,  unless those Cultists just happen to be on an objective.
Hiding in ruins or behind an ADL is usually enough. Consider an extra meat bag for catching bullets.
Their cheap price is one of their main strengths.

I would if I could but my current army is right on the 500 mark so no further bodies could be added :-(

 jifel wrote:
At low point values, 4 AC Havocs are great. In higher point games I like to do 2x10 Havocs, with 4 Las and 4 Auto cannons

this is basically the core of a footslogging Chaos HS. every chaos player needs 4 las and 4 autocannon minuatures(I have 5 and 12)

Plus the new FW sets look nice and are reasonably priced.

I tend to have a unit of 5 to 7 Havocs with MoN if I can afford it, though it's been a "can't afford it" recently. I take 4 Autocannons, and use the ablative wounds to man my Quad Gun, 12 autocannon shots is rough to deal with.

I also take a LasCannon Squad when I can afford to...

My Heavy Support has been looking like this recently:
3x Obliterators w/ Mark of Nurgle
5 Havocs w/ 4 Autocannons
5 Havocs w/ 4 Lascannons

 Alfndrate wrote:
I tend to have a unit of 5 to 7 Havocs with MoN if I can afford it, though it's been a "can't afford it" recently. I take 4 Autocannons, and use the ablative wounds to man my Quad Gun, 12 autocannon shots is rough to deal with.

I also take a LasCannon Squad when I can afford to...

My Heavy Support has been looking like this recently:
3x Obliterators w/ Mark of Nurgle
5 Havocs w/ 4 Autocannons
5 Havocs w/ 4 Lascannons

That would be my preferred loadout if I ran Chaos foot soldiers. With the addition of VotLW.

Cheers all - from all that I can safely say I will be trialling the 4 AC Havocs in my next game and will let you know how they get on :-)

BrudeUK wrote:
Cheers all - from all that I can safely say I will be trialling the 4 AC Havocs in my next game and will let you know how they get on :-)

Please do, real game experience is always a good thing to interject into a tactical discussion.

I have ALWAYS loved havocs(and devastators when i ran loyalists) they just seem such a versatile unit!

For a low point cost, I will use 2 ML with skyfire. That save me some pts to use somewhere else.

While I think 4 AC havoks are, in general, an excellent unit all around, I don't think they will really help you deal with a Winged Hive Tyrant.

You are averaging just ~0.55 wounds a turn after factoring in grounding tests, and that tyrant will wreck your havoks in 1 or 2 turns. That's assuming he didn't luck out with endurance or iron arm, which will cause that number to drop sharply.

The "solution" is using small arms on say, cultists, noise marines or chaos marines to force a bunch of grounding tests, then light him up with missiles, plasma, melta and/or lascannons.

That's given me food for thought - I didn't realise the odds were that low for grounding the Flyrant with the Havocs, I was just looking at those 8 shots per turn. Just to give you an idea my current army list is as follows :

HQ (130) - Lord,SoC, pair of LC

Troops (50) - 10 cultists
(50) - 10 cultists

Heavy (152) - 2 x Obliterator MoN

Heavy (115) - Havocs, 4 x ac

I realise that the cultists are pretty weak - but i'm trialling them out to see how they fare. But if everyone was in range I could have the 20 cultists and the 4 AC Havocs firing at him giving me 28 shots. The law of averages would mean that 4-5 of those shots would hit on a 6 - which would give an average of 1 or 2 grounding tests failed. Obviously it would only take 1 of those to bring him down at which point the oblits would open fire with lascannons or meltas.

That's obviously just my understanding from my limited (1 game) knowledge of the game - so if anyone could poke holes in my logic please feel more than free. The 1 way I could see to increase my odds would be to take flakk missles on at least some of the havocs but at a 500 point game its pretty expensive to do and I would have to make sacrifices in order to do that.

Never ever take 10 cultists. They will run in first tunr of combat.

Against Tyranids? He has the Flyrant, plus a Tervigon and a unit of Termigants, there's nothing in his army with any range.

Or am I being stupid here sorry?

This is a great discussion.

I'm a new player, building my own Chaos Army. Havocs are "on the list" for me to acquire - as soon as I've caught up on some painting

I do have a question, though. The Havoc box appears to come only with 1xAC. Not sure if this is in violation of any DakkaDakka rules to discuss...so quiet me down if needed.

If the box has 1xAC, 1xLC, 1xML, 1xHB and I want to do a 4xAC (or 4xLC), what do you recommend?

I guess options would be:

1. "Proxy" AC by ignoring WYSIWYG. Probably ok for friendly games - which is pretty much all I'm playing at this point. ...but I may want future options that are WYSIWYG compliant...
2. Find a 3rd party "bits" supplier that will sell extra LC or AC parts - probably at a steep mark-up and with a lot of "extras".
3. Try to kit-bash or scratch build my own.

Other suggestions?

Also, do you recommend magnetizing weapons for specialty troops in these situations? It seems to make sense to me.

I have recently built a Raptor squad, and wanted 2x Meltas, but there was only 1 in the box. So, I magnetized one model so I could swap out later - and gave him a plasma gun (or flamer with the magnet option) for now. This was going to be one of my primary anti-vehicle units...

Thanks,
-Aeglos

Hi Aeglos - glad to see another new player going the way of Chaos too

I had noticed that too so I had planned on magnetising the heavy weapons on them and hopefully sourcing somewhere in the UK that supplies bits where I could just buy the heavy weapons I was after and attach them to the figures with magnets. I've had a look round on Youtube and there seems to be a few videos relating to magnetising your figures. I used these for my Predator so I can easily swap out the main turret and sponsoons as well as the dozer blade on the front and even to the point where I can swap out the side panels to turn it into a Rhino if the need arises. I would imagine though that the weapons on infantry style units would be a little fiddlier to magnetise but hopefully would be worth it.

The problem I've found on that is that none of the bitz websites ive looked at have the Havoc heavy weapons. I've checked out eBay but it looks like the supply for single weapons is quite high which is reflected in the prices. I'm just going to hold out and keep checking the bitz websites and hope they get them in stock.

Hope that helps some

aeglos wrote:
This is a great discussion.

I guess options would be:

1. "Proxy" AC by ignoring WYSIWYG. Probably ok for friendly games - which is pretty much all I'm playing at this point. ...but I may want future options that are WYSIWYG compliant...
2. Find a 3rd party "bits" supplier that will sell extra LC or AC parts - probably at a steep mark-up and with a lot of "extras".
3. Try to kit-bash or scratch build my own.

-Aeglos

Those are largely the only options. I'll add that Forgeworld does a really excellent looking Heresy Era marine squad all with autocannons.

Pick up some cheap marines on Ebay, and get the weapons from Forge World http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Legiones_Astartes/Space_Marine_Legion_Army_List/LEGION_HEAVY_SUPPORT/Legion_Heavy_Support_Squad?filter_reset=1

Anvil Industries does solid work as well.
http://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=60_78&product_id=275

hellpato wrote:
For a low point cost, I will use 2 ML with skyfire. That save me some pts to use somewhere else.

Interesting enough,
2 Flakk missiles will yield 1.33 hits on a flying target and will cost you at least 125 points.
4 ACs will also yield 1.33 hits on a flying target and will cost you 115 points.

Flakk missiles are a distant third choice for Havoc weapons after autocannons and lascannons and if I was to use them, it would likely be in a squad that is larger than 5 bodies to help protect those expensive missile launchers. For me, Flakk missiles are a niche weapon that should be used if you're fighting in a flyer heavy environment only.

The heresy era autocannon are lovely weapons. Get them

 minigun762 wrote:

hellpato wrote:
For a low point cost, I will use 2 ML with skyfire. That save me some pts to use somewhere else.

Interesting enough,
2 Flakk missiles will yield 1.33 hits on a flying target and will cost you at least 125 points.
4 ACs will also yield 1.33 hits on a flying target and will cost you 115 points.

Flakk missiles are a distant third choice for Havoc weapons after autocannons and lascannons and if I was to use them, it would likely be in a squad that is larger than 5 bodies to help protect those expensive missile launchers. For me, Flakk missiles are a niche weapon that should be used if you're fighting in a flyer heavy environment only.

I'm not in the mathhammer and I don't care about the 1.33 hit, but I like when you use it, when you know your enemy got a lot of flyers. In the end, for a low cost, i will stick with only 2 AC, ML or whatever. If someone used 2 flyers in a low cost points, i bring more troops, I'm holding the objectives and don't give a gak for the flyers. Bring 4 HB to clean the infantries.

hellpato wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:

hellpato wrote:
For a low point cost, I will use 2 ML with skyfire. That save me some pts to use somewhere else.

Interesting enough,
2 Flakk missiles will yield 1.33 hits on a flying target and will cost you at least 125 points.
4 ACs will also yield 1.33 hits on a flying target and will cost you 115 points.

Flakk missiles are a distant third choice for Havoc weapons after autocannons and lascannons and if I was to use them, it would likely be in a squad that is larger than 5 bodies to help protect those expensive missile launchers. For me, Flakk missiles are a niche weapon that should be used if you're fighting in a flyer heavy environment only.

I'm not in the mathhammer and I don't care about the 1.33 hit, but I like when you use it, when you know your enemy got a lot of flyers. In the end, for a low cost, i will stick with only 2 AC, ML or whatever. If someone used 2 flyers in a low cost points, i bring more troops, I'm holding the objectives and don't give a gak for the flyers. Bring 4 HB to clean the infantries.

Not a problem!
If its working for you and you like it, that is what matters.
In the end, its your army, your time and your money so it needs to be done your way.
That's my thought at least.

5 Havocs with 4 AC is a great unit. Dont bother with more bodies or VotLW. What makes them great is the firing output for the price.

Once you start adding things like extra bodies and upgrades you start losing efficiency quickly as they gain zero firepower and a negligible amount of durability at a high price point.

for tyranids and for less of a modeling hassle drop havocs use dakkapred

Dakkapred 112 pts
HB sponsons
warpflame gargoyles
havoc launcher

here you go cheaper and more durable than havocs, generates same hits against flyers, kills ALOT of infantry and you can attach a combiflamer to scare gaunts.
I took 3 to a 500pt game (im not popular now)
plus with the dark art of magnetising you can swap the weapons out for 3 lascannons when you start facing more tanks in higher point games.