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Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

I have the playtest rules for Curse of the Skinwalker all finished now. If anyone wants to check it out (and actually test it) please PM me here

Everything is just plain text and line art at the moment, and you'll need some D10's to roll on the loot table instead of cards. Don't want to force people to print out tons of paper cards.

I also have some plain line art board tiles for the pathing and stuff, but if you have another similar dungeon crawly game you can use tiles from that instead.

Anyway, let me know if you're interested in helping out

   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

So, I was a bit pre-mature.. in the tester pack, the map tiles are missing obstacles and I also forgot to include the templates for chests and other things. Game Salute also asked me to make a "nice" version of it to send out to their testing crew so I'm going to reformat everything into a nicer little package. I'll probably get that done sometime in the next few days. Content won't change other than the board tiles. I'll let ya'll know when the new version is ready

Debating on weather or not I should make the board tiles be detailed with artwork and all.. I kept them as plain line art with just the path just so people didn't have to blow through their printer ink. I figured most folks would be using the board tiles from other games just to test it ...

   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

So, a couple of testers, myself included, have come to the conclusion that the heroes are too tough and the battles are all too easy. So, I think I'm going to be changing the format a bit and just do away with the Legendary Gang idea, and the heroes will be like a normal gang... 1 leader, 2 professionals and 2 henchmen. This will also mean most of the heroes' gear will be lower level stuff too, so I'm going to change that up and also gear them more for melee combat. You're creeping around in the dark, you can't see to shoot things far away anyway. Also, due to the dark tunnels you have to creep along carefully so you don't fall and trip over things, so the amount of spaces you can move will be your quickness.

I'm also thinking about dropping a bunch of loot, cutting it down to maybe 50 different items, but there will be multiple cards for some of the more general items. So like the rare special weapons and armor would have 1 card, while there might be 6 snake oil cards or chunk o' gold cards. There will be more events too, and those cards can be doubles too, so I think I'll work on adding more of them now. I think I'm also going to make them be more specific, instead of "Spawn D6 minions" it will be like "Spawn 5 Chupacabras"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and.. right now I have the Supernatural bonus ability being that you basically get the Run & Gun skill free, so you can run and attack in the same activation. This would be good for the skirmish game, but since there's no running in tunnels now I think I'm going to change that to be you can run & attack in skirmish games, and in adventure games you can see well enough in the dark to move a full 6 spaces.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oops.. 1 more thing. You can't see to shoot well in the dark. Thinking of having guns shoot a max of 4 spaces now no matter what gun you have, but if you carry a lantern you can shoot up to your guns close range... but a lantern has to be in 1 hand, so you could only shoot a pistol with a lantern since rifles are 2 handed weapons.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/07/18 14:11:51


   
Made in us
Old Sourpuss






Lakewood, Ohio

So Game Salute has testers on hand for people to test the games they help publish?

Interesting.

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Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics 
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Yep i don't know who or how many but they said they have some folks they can get to test it out.

   
Made in us
Old Sourpuss






Lakewood, Ohio

That's awesome, even though I'm not totally behind the idea of Game Salute, but I like what they can provide for the game dev.

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Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics 
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Thinking about the board tiles again. Started out with 5" square tiles that have puzzle connectors on all 4 sides, 6 sheets worth with 4 per sheet, so 24 tiles in all.

Now I was just planning to switch to full 11" flat tiles that you lay out next to each other, with mine tunnels and rooms drawn onto them, a lot like you would see with Sedition Wars or Super Dungeon Explore. I wanted to try and keep everything as a uniform size. Now I'm starting to wonder if it would be better to have different sized room and corridor pieces that you can mix & match, with a puzzle connection, a lot like the game Descent. Or a clip connector like Terraclips. 6 sheet's worth would still give you a pretty big dungeon to crawl through if you use them all. Would you rather see something like that with different sized corridors and rooms, or would you guys rather have the 6 full flat tiles?

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






The game works better with larger battlefields. The more room the models have to maneuver, the better.
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

What I'm thinking of is if we have 6-8 sheets in the box, each one would have 1 large room (at least 6x6 spaces) plus corridor pieces to fill the space. And there would be one "lair" tile that's a whole 11x11 board. So you would connect each room to 1 or 2 corridor pieces. Each room would have 1 objective, and you'll draw events as you travel around, like now. So the objective cards wouldn't be placed in the event deck. You could draw them separately, or the GM can place them face down 1 in each large room.. that kind of thing.

Event cards would mostly be small minion fights, traps and "nothing happens" .. objectives would all be the tougher fights that include fiends and monsters. Event battles would be "spawn D6 minions of any kind" but objectives would be specific monsters.

   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Another thought I've been having... how about 1.5" squares for movement instead of 1"? Will solve the base size issue between the 30mm skirmish bases and 25mm adventure bases. Room tiles would end up being much bigger though. A 6" square room would be 6x6 spaces now, or 4x4 spaces if we change it. Would also mean less board tiles overall since we could only fit so many cardstock sheets in the box.

Ranges would have to be changed up. Instead of shooting 6 inches you'd shoot 4 spaces. Since it's so dark in the caves, I was going to change ranged attacks to be where you can shoot an amount of spaces equal to your ranged combat attribute. So if your RC is 6 you have really good eyes and can see the shapes moving in the dark a little better than someone with a 2.

Another thought.. since it is a different game, how about having completely different professions?

Monster Hunter gets a bonus to hit supernaturals.

Archaeologist or treasure hunter can draw extra loot cards and keep their favorite

Medicine Man makes snake oil potions to heal people when they get hurt

Miner can see better in the dark since they're used to working down in the mines

Scout can draw extra event cards and play the one he wants

You can still use all characters in both games, just thinking for what's in the big box. Might be funner to make all new stuff and then eventually add those new professions to skirmish gangs too.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Not a big fan of the 1 inch squares. My 30mm bases didn't fit at all. I agree this could be a good time to introduce new professions, as long as they are still compatible with the tabletop BWG game. Tabletop gaming is still my bread and butter, even if Game Salute isn't big on it.
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Yeah I've just been having a little dilemma since some professions are better suited for the skirmish game but others are better for the adventure game... but I want them all to work well for both games.

Like a prospector gets a DP bonus in area terrain, but there's no area terrain in mines. Been thinking maybe there should be different abilities depending on if you're doing a skirmish game or adventure game? So a prospector would get his DP bonus in a skirmish game, but when he's crawling through the mines he's good at finding treasure and can draw an extra loot card. A scout could draw 2 event cards and choose the one he wants to play in an adventure game, but in skirmish games he could start out anywhere on the board instead of just your starting area since he can scout ahead.

or would that just confuse people too much?

   
Made in nz
Parachuting Para-Commando




Auckland, New Zealand

I think some alternate skills for the adventure game would be a great idea. Maybe the Doctor makes sure that snake oil always works as well.

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Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

I think what I'm gonna do is give an additional ability to each profession for adventure games, but still keep the skirmish ability too.

So, in addition to their regular abilities I'm thinking of this for the "adventure game" abilities..

Bounty Hunter - "Wanted Dead or Alive" - Earn a reward of $50 for each Monster level beast they kill.

Gambler - "Nothing up my sleeve" - Earns 1 free bonus melee attack once per activation with a concealed weapon, like a fist attack.

Prospector - "Strike it rich" - Whenever loot is collected a Prospector may draw 3 loot cards. Keep 1 card, and discard the other 2.

Doctor - "Smellin' Salts" - A doctor has a better chance to revive fallen models after an Encounter. When making your casualty roll for each fallen model, roll 2D6 instead of 1. On a roll of 2 they have died, any other result they will stand back up with 1 HP.

Gunslinger - "Point Blank" - Gunsligners may use pistols in melee combat, but using their Melee Combat attribute instead of ranged combat.

Wrassler - "Rumble!" - Wrasslers gain +1D6 for each melee attack when rolling to hit for each friendly model in their personal space. For example, 2 friendly models will give him +2D6 for each attack he makes.

Engineers - "It's a trap!" - Whenever a trap is found, an Engineer has a chance to disarm it before it goes off. Make in Intellect roll, the target number will be the trap's level. One successful D6 will disarm the trap.

Monster Hunter - "Tread Carefully" - Monster hunters use extreme caution when exploring dangerous areas full of beasts. When drawing event cards, draw 3 cards. The monster hunter will decide which card to play, and discard the other 2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh one more thing .. I'm thinking of doing away with "forming a gang" for the adventure game, and keep the concept of gangs for the skirmish game. So there's no gang leader, it's just the heroes against the beasts. With every hero being a 100 xp character, they're all hired guns and leader types already. So the rule will basically be play as many heroes as you want, and have at least 1 objective card for each hero played. The standard game will be 5 heroes, but you can play a quicker game with 3 heroes, or a longer game with more. I think that will give it a bit more of a RPG feel, and you'll still be able to use your favorite heroes in your skirmish gangs as hired guns if you want to. Or you can use any skirmish hired gun or gang leader in the adventure game too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/29 17:03:34


   
Made in nz
Parachuting Para-Commando




Auckland, New Zealand

I like the sound of doing away with 'forming a gang' for the adventure game. Much easier to deal with models in a more abstract way, and makes the game more easily scalable too.

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Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Also kind of wondering now if I should add campaigns & character advancement as part of the game, not just an optional thing? You can still play with the standard 100xp characters right out of the box, or campaigns where they get tougher from there after a few games.

The way I have campaigns now is everyone starts off with 25 xp, but I think that may be too wimpy to survive anything but a few minions. So I was thinking heroes would still start out with 100 XP like now, but each one will have pre-set new abilities that get unlocked. Like maybe at 125xp those secondary abilities for each profession will get unlocked. At 150 they earn another DP or HP, that kind of thing. It wouldn't be 1 new attribute point every 5 xp like now though, I'm thinking after you reach 100 XP, it would be something new every 25, and you max at 300xp?

Then there would be 3 levels of dungeons and encounters based on the heroes' experience. Standard is a heroic dungeon with 3 objectives. If just 1 hero reaches 200xp they will become Infamous level dungeons that will have more monsters mixed in and 5 objectives, and 300xp would be Legendary with even more monsters and 8 or more objectives. Could maybe also introduce infamous and legendary level beasts too, "dragon-sized" things.. like the Were-Mammoth?

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Based on my play testing, its better to have strong heroes fighting challenging monsters. Henchmen w/ 1HP and 1DP get destroyed, and fighting large groups of minions is boring. A strong group fighting a mix of fiends and minions makes for an exciting game.
   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Yep I'll be making that change, basically adding 1 fiend to all encounters. I'm also going to have most encounters list specific enemies, but there will still be a few generic fights where the beast player can spawn whatever critters he wants.

So I'm thinking an event card will say something like this..

A Werebat and his minions have ambushed the party! Beasts receive +1 Initiative for the next Game Turn. Beasts may be be placed anywhere, but at least 4 spaces away from any hero.

Standard Heroes: Spawn 1 Werebat, 3 Montauk Creatures and and 1 Shunka Wereikin.
Reward: 3 Loot Cards.

Infamous Heroes: Spawn 1 Werebat, 1 Werebear, 3 Montauk Creatures, 2 Shunka Wereikin and 1 Jackalope.
Reward: 5 Loot Cards.

Legendary Heroes: Spawn 1 Barrens Devil, 1 Werebat, 1 Werebear, 4 Montauk Creatures, 3 Shunka Wereikin and 2 Jackalopes.
Reward: 7 Loot Cards.

   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Another thing I'd like to do is convey that the heroes are sneaking through the mines, and the more noise they make the more monsters will be alerted. Thinking of something like this..

You start out with a noise level of 1, that means the beast player will draw 1 event card at a time. The noise level is the amount of event cards that get drawn, and the beast player can play whichever one he wants to happen, then discards the rest.

1 is the minimum, 5 is the max. Every encounter will raise the noise level by 1. If guns were fired, it goes up by 2. If explosives were used, it goes up by 3. After the encounter, while exploring, If a full game turn goes by (all heroes move once) and no noise is generated, it goes down by 1 point.

So, the more you alert the enemies to your presence, the more chances you have of getting in a fight without having the chance to rest up.

There could also be some events that could raise your noise level too, like if you come across a crazed miner that runs off deeper into the caverns cackling with glee, the critters will want to know who's making all that racket.

Plus I was also thinking, each noise level will add +1 minion to each encounter.

Also, I think I might want to get rid of the objective cards after all. In my own test games, it seems like it can take a while to get to an objective, and having more than 1 can drag the game out. Maybe with the skirmish game having scenarios the adventure game should have campaign-like story/missions. I could do it like a campaign book that will list a series of linked missions that you can play all in a row, or just choose the one you want. Each one would have a recommended board layout, with a specific final battle.. but event card encounters could be open ended where the beast player can spawn x # of minions, fiends and/or monsters.

How does that sound?

   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Another idea.... building on the above. So you have a set mission with a story and a specific final battle, but you need something to do on your way to the last room. How about dropping event cards and going with custom "encounter dice"? It would be a D6, 2 sides would spawn 3 minions, 1 side for spawning 1 fiend, and 3 blank for "nothing happens". So there's a 50/50 chance of monsters finding you when you're exploring.

The heroes all move, then the beast player rolls a 1D6 to see if anything happens. If nothing happens, they move again and then the beast player rolls again. If you get a battle, you spawn whatever level of creature the dice tell you to spawn, but the beast player can choose whatever creature type of that level. After the battle, you'll have raised the noise level, and possibly alerted more creatures to your presence.

So after the battle, the heroes move again and this time the beast player will roll 2D6, or 3 or 4 depending on what the noise level is now, based on the previous fight. So unless they're extremely careful chances are you'll be fighting a growing horde of monsters as you make your way to the end.

I think that might even be cheaper to produce, 5 or 6 special dice vs a deck of 50 or so event and objective cards. We'd still keep the loot cards though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/01 17:32:43


   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

One tester just asked if the board tiles could be done as hexes instead of like a grid. That's a thing that made me go "Hmmm"

I guess I don't have any preference either way, I just used a grid because that's what seems to be the most common for games like this. anyone have any prefrence? I think the hexes could be cool for more "organic" shaped mines and caverns, and mine shafts could brach off into 6 different directions instead of 4.

   
Made in nz
Parachuting Para-Commando




Auckland, New Zealand

Hexes would be more organic, and would also better suit the round bases. Hexes with 1" sides might actually be a perfect size in this case.

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Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Yeah I think for the next version of the test rules I'll make sample tiles with both squares or hexes and folks can try both and see what they like better.

   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Thinking about the board again. I keep going back and forth over the layout.. can't decide on square panels that are all the same shape, or multi-shape panel like Descent.

I think I'm still leaning toward the square shapes. Been checking out some other games out there and I'm kind of thinking of doing it more like zpocalpypse tiles



They're basically all the same corridor shape, just lots of different art .. we could do mine tiles with ore laying around, or mine cart tracks, caverns with underground lakes and rivers, spooky zombie crypts under the undertaker's house, etc. The campaign book will tell you how to set up the board and what pieces to use for what mission/quest/adventure, plus there will be rules for how to make your own missions too.

   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Hey folks

So I'm working out the board tiles. My first idea was to use square tiles with a puzzle connection.. here's a couple of sample layouts with the white squares being the open paths





I finally had time to sit down and work out the hex version. On the 11" square board page we'll have, I could fit 3 tiles instead of 4. But I came up with this mostly universal cut so that you can use both sides of the tile anytime.. unlike the squares that will just fit together on 1 side or other. Another good thing is it leaves open areas that I could use to place other templates and tokens instead of needing a whole new sheet for that. So what do ya'll think of this?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Took a quick pic .. the hex tiles will fit the current mini bases perfectly. I think for the plastic figs we would still go with a 23mm round flat base under the feets, which would fit as a base topper for the 30mm skirmish bases. With the square tiles you'd have the edges of the 30mm bases sticking out the sides a teeny bit.



So yeah I'm leaning more toward the hexes a lot more now. I think it will also be a lot more unique since every other "dungeon crawl" game out there is using squares.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/19 19:29:07


   
Made in nz
Parachuting Para-Commando




Auckland, New Zealand

Yeah, I'm liking those hexes more than the squares. Make sure the artwork doesn't give the open areas straight edges (with a grid overlay for accuracy, of course) and it should look great.

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Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

This is what I was thinking of for the wall areas, so we would only draw the hexes on the tiles for the actual path, and then there would be wall artwork or whatever else in the empty areas.



Was also thinking we could do other tile themes, so the game would come with a cavern and mine theme, but we could do other tile packs that are more like outdoor canyons or forest paths

   
Made in nz
Parachuting Para-Commando




Auckland, New Zealand

Ooh, I like the sound of a canyon set. Add a tile for where the canyon meets the mine and it's a win-win.

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Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

Yep that's the plan There's a "mine entrance" tile that the heroes all start on. In the usual game this is the only tile where you can shoot a gun's full distance, the rest are inside in the dark so you can only shoot an amount of spaces up to your Ranged Combat attribute. Battles will probably be much more melee oriented too, since guns are loud and can make more monsters come and get you.

Was brainstorming on game names today. Curse of the Skinwalker is going to be the name of the campaign storyline, not the game itself.. so we can do "campaign packs" with different stories later on, each one would get new tiles & minis. This will just be the one that's included in the main boxed game. Thinking about going with "Blackwater Gulch: Underland Adventures" for the adventure game and "Blackwater Gulch: Gangfights in the Old West" will be for the skirmish game and mostly sticking with human and keeping that more historical in theme. But you can use characters and monsters from both in either game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Decided to change around the board tile layout .. going male - female over and over on each side will make it easier to lay out the tiles and the front and back sides can fit together easy. And then there's plenty of space above and below the left hand side tile to have little templates and objective markers and stuff. I'll probably have some 3-space tunnel blockage pieces too that folks can use to close off different corridors if they're making their own custom missions.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/20 23:37:25


   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






The hex tiles look very good. It creates a much more "organic" look that better represents a real cave. I just hope the tiles are large enough to allow the players to manuever. Those one-hex bottlenecks will slow the game down.

I also like the omnidirectional hex tiles. The first batch had too many tiles devoted to "wall space." Also, placing all of male connectors on one nd prevents the players from rotating it. Omnidirectional, rotatable tiles are a good thing.
   
 
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