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Made in gb
[DCM]
Authorised Squig Hunter





Outer Space, Apparently

Yeah, I don't think there will be a surprise with this one. If Sisters are going to turn up, they'll turn up with their own Codex and release, not tied into a supplement sized rulebook.

G.A - Should've called myself Ghost Ark

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Longtime Dakkanaut





A certain someone who would know, let it slip that the agents book will not have any new minis, but there would be something next year. As an aside gw has a history of releasing books with pics of old minis, only to release new ones a few weeks later. I remember Eldar and empire books both doing this.
   
Made in us
VF-1S Valkyrie Squadron Commander





Mississippi

 MadCowCrazy wrote:
 Adam Spielmann wrote:
BTW, that horse has been beaten enough 6 years ago.


Stupidity needs to me reminded so that it doesn't happen again. That particular lore bit proves that Sisters are far more resistant to the corruption of chaos, far better than Grey Knights in fact because some sisters could resist the corruption without special training or wargear to protect them whilst the GKs needed a talisman to protect themselves, one that could only be made by slaughtering all the remaining sisters, the same ones who were strong enough to resist the taint on their own, in order to create a talisman of protection strong enough to shield the GKs from the taint.

I guess it kinda proves the metric that faith is stronger than chaotic corruption but lack of faith will lead to corruption as several sisters have been tainted by chaos or others (Sister was corrupted by a genestealer cult and even had 2 hybrid babies in the Cast a Hungry Shadow story).

The point is that this proves that GKs can be corrupted even if the codex says no GK has ever fallen to chaos (I'd say Draigo is snorting warp dust with Slaanesh and Doomrider right now but that's just my opinion).

I remember reading somewhere that all codexes shouldn't be considered accurate because they are documents written by the Inquisition regarding the different armies in 40K and thus could be prone to errors. I believe someone at GW said it a long time ago, someone on the design team at that point in time. Think I read it at the start or middle of 5E 40K.


They're Grey Knights, not White. Sometimes they do dark things to try and save humanity. I think that is a mistake a lot of people make about the faction - thinking that because they lack being tainted by chaos they're supposed to be the shining white knights of the Imperium, and they certainly are not.

It never ends well 
   
Made in fi
Missionary On A Mission






 Stormonu wrote:
They're Grey Knights, not White. Sometimes they do dark things to try and save humanity. I think that is a mistake a lot of people make about the faction - thinking that because they lack being tainted by chaos they're supposed to be the shining white knights of the Imperium, and they certainly are not.


The problem isn't that they did it, they regularly kill billions of humans on worlds where daemonic incursions have occurred. They willingly kill billions to prevent the knowledge of chaos from the masses.

The problem is that they HAD to make the talisman in order to protect themselves from the taint, a taint the sisters could resist and did so without special training or wargear. The GKs have the most advanced wargear in all of the imperium and the harshest training (wasn't it like 1 in a million survive the initial training) yet if they had not created the talisman they would/could have been corrupted.

This fluff completely ruins the illusion that the GKs are the most incorruptible of the incorruptible. If the GKs can be corrupted and are so hard to train why not just gather up some sisters, put them through training and have them fight daemons instead since they are less likely to be corrupted than certain types of corruption than the GKs.

See the problem yet?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/12/01 02:25:49


   
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 MadCowCrazy wrote:
 Stormonu wrote:
They're Grey Knights, not White. Sometimes they do dark things to try and save humanity. I think that is a mistake a lot of people make about the faction - thinking that because they lack being tainted by chaos they're supposed to be the shining white knights of the Imperium, and they certainly are not.


The problem isn't that they did it, they regularly kill billions of humans on worlds where daemonic incursions have occurred. They willingly kill billions to prevent the knowledge of chaos from the masses.

The problem is that they HAD to make the talisman in order to protect themselves from the taint, a taint the sisters could resist and did so without special training or wargear. The GKs have the most advanced wargear in all of the imperium and the harshest training (wasn't it like 1 in a million survive the initial training) yet if they had not created the talisman they would/could have been corrupted.

This fluff completely ruins the illusion that the GKs are the most incorruptible of the incorruptible. If the GKs can be corrupted and are so hard to train why not just gather up some sisters, put them through training and have them fight daemons instead since they are less likely to be corrupted than certain types of corruption than the GKs.

See the problem yet?


I'm not sure you are familiar with the logic or the situation enough to understand it.

Think of it this way. Sisters of battle are super pure right? Like, the purest. Right after Grey knights - they are incorruptible. Not through strength of will, but a combination of that and sorcery. Nothing in the Imperium is fully immune to the predatorions of chaos through purity of will alone, not in 40k.

The grey knights see a wave of blood that fully corrupts half the sisters of battle in no time.
The grey knights obviously know a spell of complete purity protection.
They can use the spell at the cost of the sisters lives, and not a single grey knight should be tempted by the wave.
Or they can take the arguable moral high road, ignore the sisters who may still turn, possibly lose some of their own (because if sisters can fall, so can they right?) And possibly risk the entire mission and allow a gigantic warp invasion.

It's a simple choice when you think about it and don't mindlessly criticize what you don't/can't understand/accept.

No offense intended, but the argument you are making is a tired, old argument that ultimately is born of misunderstandings about the fluff that is in question, and a run-away band wagon called the internet.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/12/01 07:04:48


 
   
Made in fi
Missionary On A Mission






So you are basically agreeing with me that Grey Knights CAN be corrupted despite the codex stating none has ever fallen to Chaos.

Also saying I don't/can't understand the situation pretty arrogant.
I base my logic on what was stated, you base yours on what could happen. There is nothing in the text that says that the sisters who didn't get corrupted would succumb to it, that is you adding extras to the story. If we are going by that logic we can just say the grey knights could have summoned the golden throne through a psygate and the emperor would have banished the blood tide.

The text literally reads "Needing a talisman of purity to protect against the Bloodtide's taint".
and "So shielded, the Grey Knights are able to stride through the goreflood without risk of corruption..."

In regards to the sisters it reads:
"Some Battle Sisters are corrupted on contact with the Bloodtide. Those who endure fight valiantly, but most are slaughtered by the Bloodletters atop the basilica walls."

So from this we can draw the obvious conclusion that the GKs NEEDED a talisman of protection, once created they could strike through the goreflood WITHOUT RISK OF CORRUPTION. This means there was a risk of corruption present before but thanks to the talisman of purity they were protected.

From the sisters point of view it literally states "SOME Battle Sisters are corrupted on contact.... THOSE WHO ENDURE fight valiantly.

So the logical conclusion is that the GKs were at risk of being corrupted yet some sisters could resist the taint. It can be assumed they could resist the taint without special training or wargear because there is no fluff anywhere that I am aware of that states that regular Battle Sisters are trained in ways to resist the corruption of chaos or receive special wargear to help defend against it. I guess you could argue that their rigorous training, self chastisement and utter devotion to the God Emperor IS their training. If we assume so then the Sisters basic training and routine is better protection against some forms of corruption than the training and wargear GKs receive.

So the question is now, can you counter my argument using established fluff and without adding extras to your side of the story?

   
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

The real question is whether anyone can stay on topic, not have Fluff Wars...

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
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Seemed related

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 Grey Templar wrote:
The Riptide can't be a giant death robot, its completely lacking a sword or massive chainsaw. All giant death robots have swords or massive chainsaws.
 
   
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Sororitas Silentum incoming! Hopefully this means we will see their kit available separately. I sure hope so, because I want to make more white-armored Sisters of Silence!

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Portsmouth UK

surely its a reference to Custodes in 40K?

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 bubber wrote:
surely its a reference to Custodes in 40K?
No, because Custodes have been around and visible in the years since the Heresy. The Sisters of Silence have pretty much been unheard of.

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In relation to that, do people remember Hastings comments from 2 months ago on WoS? They sounded like a joke but may actually have been a hint a some sort of new Super Space Marine army?

75Hastings69 wrote:Imagine how the sigmarines are to the standard empire soldier. Wouldn't it be a weird twist of fate if AoS copy pasted space marines into the fantasy setting as Sigmar's answer to chaos always winning, that somehow w40k kind of copy pasted the end times and reboot of fantasy AoS into 40k with the same fundamental idea..... hence new marines will spearhead offensive for the emperor following on from current w40k fluff events/outcome.
   
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Liverpool

That thing about the High Lords sending an email to someone, is that a known reference? Don't read many novels if the secret order has been mentioned anywhere?

Could they just mean the Custodes actually taking action outside the palace now? Then again the Custodes aren't exactly a secret order are they?

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Faith in fury

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Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

There's your fluff for why SOS and Custodes can be fielded in 40k, then!

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in lu
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






Spoiler:
 MadCowCrazy wrote:
So you are basically agreeing with me that Grey Knights CAN be corrupted despite the codex stating none has ever fallen to Chaos.

Also saying I don't/can't understand the situation pretty arrogant.
I base my logic on what was stated, you base yours on what could happen. There is nothing in the text that says that the sisters who didn't get corrupted would succumb to it, that is you adding extras to the story. If we are going by that logic we can just say the grey knights could have summoned the golden throne through a psygate and the emperor would have banished the blood tide.

The text literally reads "Needing a talisman of purity to protect against the Bloodtide's taint".
and "So shielded, the Grey Knights are able to stride through the goreflood without risk of corruption..."

In regards to the sisters it reads:
"Some Battle Sisters are corrupted on contact with the Bloodtide. Those who endure fight valiantly, but most are slaughtered by the Bloodletters atop the basilica walls."

So from this we can draw the obvious conclusion that the GKs NEEDED a talisman of protection, once created they could strike through the goreflood WITHOUT RISK OF CORRUPTION. This means there was a risk of corruption present before but thanks to the talisman of purity they were protected.

From the sisters point of view it literally states "SOME Battle Sisters are corrupted on contact.... THOSE WHO ENDURE fight valiantly.

So the logical conclusion is that the GKs were at risk of being corrupted yet some sisters could resist the taint. It can be assumed they could resist the taint without special training or wargear because there is no fluff anywhere that I am aware of that states that regular Battle Sisters are trained in ways to resist the corruption of chaos or receive special wargear to help defend against it. I guess you could argue that their rigorous training, self chastisement and utter devotion to the God Emperor IS their training. If we assume so then the Sisters basic training and routine is better protection against some forms of corruption than the training and wargear GKs receive.

So the question is now, can you counter my argument using established fluff and without adding extras to your side of the story?


Well to be fair, " no GK has ever fallen to chaos" doesn't mean they can't potentially fall. It only means that none ever has, perhaps due to going to such extreme lengths as butchering sisters to remain pure or even killing their own at the slightest hint.
I'm not taking a side either way, I haven't read the book. Just saying that most pure =/= immune. They could be 99 percent resistant, but it's still technically possible to corrupt then.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/12/01 13:35:58


 
   
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UK

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 bubber wrote:
surely its a reference to Custodes in 40K?
No, because Custodes have been around and visible in the years since the Heresy. The Sisters of Silence have pretty much been unheard of.


Also they are not "human in appearance".

Sisters of Silence are.

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
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"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

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 unmercifulconker wrote:
That thing about the High Lords sending an email to someone, is that a known reference? Don't read many novels if the secret order has been mentioned anywhere?

Could they just mean the Custodes actually taking action outside the palace now? Then again the Custodes aren't exactly a secret order are they?


Well, if it's the power to "unmake Gods", the closest known not-all-new thing I can think of are Sisters of Silence. They're all blanks so if you got a strong enough field of them together, you could give a daemon or other warp being (IE, a god) a heart attack or something. Even the God Emperor himself was stated to be killable by a strong enough blank (the one that the execution force runs into in Nemesis)

While it's true that the last known ones were supposedly killed in the Beast Arises series, I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch more unknown ones were still fighting (and er... recruiting to replace losses of course) in the inner palace against the Golden Throne webway breach.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/12/01 14:05:05


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




North Carolina

TiamatRoar wrote:
 unmercifulconker wrote:
That thing about the High Lords sending an email to someone, is that a known reference? Don't read many novels if the secret order has been mentioned anywhere?

Could they just mean the Custodes actually taking action outside the palace now? Then again the Custodes aren't exactly a secret order are they?


Well, if it's the power to "unmake Gods", the closest known not-all-new thing I can think of are Sisters of Silence. They're all blanks so if you got a strong enough field of them together, you could give a daemon or other warp being (IE, a god) a heart attack or something. Even the God Emperor himself was stated to be killable by a strong enough blank (the one that the execution force runs into in Nemesis)

While it's true that the last known ones were supposedly killed in the Beast Arises series, I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch more unknown ones were still fighting (and er... recruiting to replace losses of course) in the inner palace against the Golden Throne webway breach.


It would make sense for the SOS to be recruiting more blanks since we see other organizations doing it in the fluff. Abnett had Eisenhorn create the distaff which had dozens of blanks in it and Ravenor had a blank in his entourage as well. The Culexus Temple continues to find blank recruits to turn into assassins so there's no reason why the SOS couldn't or wouldn't also be finding more blank recruits.

Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
 
   
Made in gb
Plaguelord Titan Princeps of Nurgle





Portsmouth UK

 Mr Morden wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 bubber wrote:
surely its a reference to Custodes in 40K?
No, because Custodes have been around and visible in the years since the Heresy. The Sisters of Silence have pretty much been unheard of.


Also they are not "human in appearance".

Sisters of Silence are.


Oh - ok, to both of you.
must admit that even though I've been doing 40k since WD89 my 'fluff' knowledge is appalling! I'm also now getting lost on the other threads with army formations. I'll just wait until the books come out & try to decipher things then.

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'Murica! (again)

 pizzaguardian wrote:


Seemed related

This is the final chapter in the fluff book of WoMagnus, moving it forward to the Black Crusade much faster than I expected. The page opposite of this is that bald sister of silence art from The Beast Arises.
...actually, there are two more pages off TS fluff after this page I won't spoil, but what another surprise!

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 VeteranNoob wrote:
 pizzaguardian wrote:


Seemed related

This is the final chapter in the fluff book of WoMagnus, moving it forward to the Black Crusade much faster than I expected. The page opposite of this is that bald sister of silence art from The Beast Arises.
...actually, there are two more pages off TS fluff after this page I won't spoil, but what another surprise!


You could spoil it in a PM for someone who isn't going to be getting the book any time soon maybe?
   
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

 Mr Morden wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 bubber wrote:
surely its a reference to Custodes in 40K?
No, because Custodes have been around and visible in the years since the Heresy. The Sisters of Silence have pretty much been unheard of.


Also they are not "human in appearance".

Sisters of Silence are.
Well...they share the same visual appearance as humans(but, then again, so do Eldar), but definitely very different in terms of size and build. Whereas, the Sisters of Silence are human...in a sense.

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or maybe just post it in a spoiler tag so those who want to can see it and those who dont can just not look.

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'Murica! (again)

feth it, it's in people's hands starting tomorrow.

Spoiler:
All the punishment Fenris system took and power siphoned allowed Magnus to not only get poetic justice, making the SW feel exactly what his legion and world did, but was the final component in the ritual. With a destroyed world in the Fenris system, exploded by the SW (haha!) the rift between warp and reality thinned and then exploded with the brightness of a new star. The Planet of the Sorcerers had returned to the realspace Prospero system. Prospero saw it's new brother planet birth from the warp and with all the madness of the empyrean at its heels. The Imperium would never be the same.
Also: at Cadia multiple demon primarchs have been reported and Magnus is one of them, so Logan gathers whatever is left alive of his chapter, leaves a garrison on Fenris and marches towards death, full force, at Cadia and the Eye.

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Executing Exarch






Wasn't that exactly what the earlier leak said? Well that confirms it!
   
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Fixture of Dakka




Edit. something went wrong.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/01 15:07:32


Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
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Mississippi

Could that reference be the long forgotten Sensei?

The literal biological children that the Emperor supposedly sired. They're supposed to have amazing superpowers and imortality. Plus I imagine they'd be a huge secret.
   
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 VeteranNoob wrote:
much faster than I expected


Previous rumours stated the 13th Black Crusade campaign would last for 2 years with the final climax on Terra. Today I saw this on BOLS

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/11/40k-8th-ed-rumors-primarch-schism.html
We’ve been hearing for months about what 8th Edition of Warhammer 40,000 may hold. Here’s today latest from an old reliable rumormonger who’s been around for years:
Sources tell BoLS:
-8th Edition starter is Astartes vs Chaos Marines.
-Rulebook will be similar to Age of Sigmar’s General’s Handbook.
-Look for Campaign Books similar to the Realmgate Wars series.
-Point costs and rules for Army construction will be in the “General’s Handbook” and future codex-like Books
-Release date for 8th Edition is June
-The new Edition will be set after Abaddons’s 13th Black Crusade
-Initial focus on factions will be on Imperium vs. Chaos
-There are brewing disagreement between the returning Primarchs
-Many are shocked and disagree the 40th Millennia Imperium’s religion and injustice.
Now the previous rumors were heavy on what the rule set would be like:
GW is borrowing some rules mechanics form Age of Sigmar to pull over into the new edition.
Look for an emphasis on ease of play, especially for new players.
Look for the variable-stats-based-on-damage rule mechanic seen on some Age of Sigmar monsters to make it’s way into the Grimdark.
Look for Psychics to be greatly simplified.
Army construction will not be constrained.
Some version of AoS Warscrolls will make their way into the game.
The game will retain it’s gameplay and tactical depth, and not come anywhere near AoS’s tiny 4 pages of rules.
GW’s design goal is to maintain 40K’s depth of tactics and play, while speeding up playtime and removing needless detail.
This could mirror the major shift we saw with Age of Sigmar from Warhammer Fantasy Battles – “New Setting, New Rules!” Guess we’ll find out soon enough…
~Have at it!
news/rumo


So does the 13th Black Crusade end on Terra or is it another one of those Abbadont "accomplish anything" campaigns before the "You haven't even seen my ultimate form yet" moments where he gets to Terra, tries to suck the Emperors soul into the Chaos Pokeball the gods gifted him but just as he is about to do so Cypher jumps out of nowhere and plunges the sword he is carrying into the Emperor. This kills the Emperor and releases him from the Golden Throne prison he has been stuck to. Emperor explodes like Slaanesh but the psychic scream only banishes all daemons and chaos taint. Magnus who was standing behind Abbadont is purged of chaotic corruption and abruptly kills Abbadont. Then the story continues pretty much like If the Emperor had a Text to Speach device, Emperor is weak so has to spend 1000 years on the throne talking to Magnus. Emperor is not happy with the state of the Imperium so he creates 10 new Primarchs and sets out to purge the galaxy on a new Great Crusade. Since religion is rampant and a source of corruption he starts purging every planet he comes across, this displeases the old loyal primarchs as he is also purging their home systems and a 3 way civil war starts between Chaos vs Old Imperium vs Emprah and his new Imperium.

There, no need to thank me, that's how the campaign will end

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/01 15:18:54


   
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'Murica! (again)

 Mymearan wrote:
Wasn't that exactly what the earlier leak said? Well that confirms it!

The earlier leak was what I PMed people wanting to know this part and it made its away around the internetz like I assumed it would.
I would have written a better post than a casual PM to a bud

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/01 15:35:58


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Right behind you.

Why do people bother posting crap from Bell of Lost Souls?

Seriously. This is nothing but conjecture on their part, couched in such terms to get clicks.
   
 
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