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Made in be
Monstrous Master Moulder






Good things from the FAQ too though... GoI out of combat isn't a retreat.

The boy, I say, the boy is as sharp as a sack of wet mice... 
   
Made in us
Xenohunter with First Contact




Are you all finding Paladins to be worth the price? I can't seem to comfortably fit them into my lists. I'm trying to run them with a DH and then Falchions, which may be my problem.

It may just be due to the fact that I play against DEldar who are too fast for the Paladins to accomplish much, but I'd like to hear what you're all experiencing.

I run 10 man Interceptor squads, so pulling a Brotherhood Ancient down is more appealing to me than the Paladins, but maybe I'm playing wrong.
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




Bigfashizzel wrote:
Are you all finding Paladins to be worth the price? I can't seem to comfortably fit them into my lists. I'm trying to run them with a DH and then Falchions, which may be my problem.

It may just be due to the fact that I play against DEldar who are too fast for the Paladins to accomplish much, but I'd like to hear what you're all experiencing.

I run 10 man Interceptor squads, so pulling a Brotherhood Ancient down is more appealing to me than the Paladins, but maybe I'm playing wrong.


I had some success taking 2-3 Vanguard Detachments with Paladins and Assassins as my Elite choices so I'd say they're worth it. Like a lot of GK stuff though, it depends what else you're packing. Paladins are good for Deep Strike onto an objective and menacing everything away from it with Bolter fire and the THREAT of a charge. They're slow enough a lot of things will get away without actually engaging them in melee though,
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

I've found Paladins to just not be worth it.

They are incredibly expensive, and the models designed to boost them like apothecary, and banner, just simply don't work in practice, nor are they worth the points.

In a best case scenario you'll get them into combat with something and either force a retreat or win outright, but then the entire unit is bogged down with a 5" move.

And if you're devoting that many points to sitting on objectives, you're well on your way to being tabled. Grey Knights = go right for the throat, immediately, or lose. At least, that's my experience.

PAGK > Paladins.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Apothecary isn't very good right now anyway. Paladins are awesome.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




Any thoughts on the vortimer Razorback, or is the twin Lascannon Razorback just better for an extra 20 pts
   
Made in us
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot




L0adedDice wrote:
Any thoughts on the vortimer Razorback, or is the twin Lascannon Razorback just better for an extra 20 pts


The assault cannon razorback is vastly better for 5 points more. Shame really, I was hoping that heavy psycannons would be more prevalent on FW vehicles like land raider and razorback.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/28 07:00:47


 
   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver




London UK

Hi guys, I have just started my GK army by picking up a steal on ebay. I have about 15 GK terminators with mixed weapon loadouts and 2 NDK and a storm raven.

I've got a 75PL game coming up against a CSM/Daemons player in a relatively casual meta so my opponents don't mind me saying this unit is equipped with different weapons than modelled etc. I am looking for advice on how to splash them into a mixed battalion detachment with scars and possibly culexus.vindicare for my first ever game with them. Then going on to purchase more units to flesh out a true GK army

Any advice would be appreciated.

I know he will be running DP's and possibly soulgrinders so I was thinking of deepstriking terminators/paladins in to try and deal with them maybe with Daemon hammers. Is that a good idea? Also how can I best use the NDK?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/28 09:10:24


 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 Marmatag wrote:
I've found Paladins to just not be worth it.

They are incredibly expensive, and the models designed to boost them like apothecary, and banner, just simply don't work in practice, nor are they worth the points.

In a best case scenario you'll get them into combat with something and either force a retreat or win outright, but then the entire unit is bogged down with a 5" move.

And if you're devoting that many points to sitting on objectives, you're well on your way to being tabled. Grey Knights = go right for the throat, immediately, or lose. At least, that's my experience.

PAGK > Paladins.

Yep - totally agree. I'm really not feeling purifiers though. What Am I feeling? Lots of strike squads,interceptors, and twin las razorbacks.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation




 Xenomancers wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
I've found Paladins to just not be worth it.

They are incredibly expensive, and the models designed to boost them like apothecary, and banner, just simply don't work in practice, nor are they worth the points.

In a best case scenario you'll get them into combat with something and either force a retreat or win outright, but then the entire unit is bogged down with a 5" move.

And if you're devoting that many points to sitting on objectives, you're well on your way to being tabled. Grey Knights = go right for the throat, immediately, or lose. At least, that's my experience.

PAGK > Paladins.

Yep - totally agree. I'm really not feeling purifiers though. What Am I feeling? Lots of strike squads,interceptors, and twin las razorbacks.


I must admit I haven't been sold on the standard strike squads or interceptors so far. Unless I'm doing it wrong (possible) or missing something (also possible), I'm still only firing a bunch of stormbolter shots that have AP 0 and my opponents get saves. Whereas I'm using higher pointed marines. Granted if I get into combat then thats good but I'm still T4 and 3+ but higher cost.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Kahor wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
I've found Paladins to just not be worth it.

They are incredibly expensive, and the models designed to boost them like apothecary, and banner, just simply don't work in practice, nor are they worth the points.

In a best case scenario you'll get them into combat with something and either force a retreat or win outright, but then the entire unit is bogged down with a 5" move.

And if you're devoting that many points to sitting on objectives, you're well on your way to being tabled. Grey Knights = go right for the throat, immediately, or lose. At least, that's my experience.

PAGK > Paladins.

Yep - totally agree. I'm really not feeling purifiers though. What Am I feeling? Lots of strike squads,interceptors, and twin las razorbacks.


I must admit I haven't been sold on the standard strike squads or interceptors so far. Unless I'm doing it wrong (possible) or missing something (also possible), I'm still only firing a bunch of stormbolter shots that have AP 0 and my opponents get saves. Whereas I'm using higher pointed marines. Granted if I get into combat then thats good but I'm still T4 and 3+ but higher cost.
Well you really want to get them in combat. Storm bolters do a lot of damage for me - but 50% of the damage is done in CC. Need to get both out of them.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight







We just don't got the points to afford support units, like I was trying to tell Seizeman a couple pages ago. Draigo is good because he is such a huge multiplier AND beatstick. I'm sad termies are proving not the best again.

 SHUPPET wrote:

wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 Quickjager wrote:
We just don't got the points to afford support units, like I was trying to tell Seizeman a couple pages ago. Draigo is good because he is such a huge multiplier AND beatstick. I'm sad termies are proving not the best again.

I think they probably will get a price drop in the codex. Space marine tactical terms went down in points by 8. I think we can expect at least a 6 points reduction.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight







Purifiers getting 2 attacks again and a range increase on smite would be great. Incinerators getting a 10 inch range would be nice as well, as would all guns becoming assault.

I'm really wondering what they're gonna do with us after seeing the sweeping price reductions SM got. Shame it looks like Konor will be over by then.

 SHUPPET wrote:

wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
 
   
Made in us
Kid_Kyoto






Probably work

What do you guys think of a hybrid list with GK and then some AM Scions pulled in to provide the special weapon support? I was contemplating something similar to an old 3rd ed DH list, and that seems like the most direct (and competitive) means of getting to it.

Assume all my mathhammer comes from here: https://github.com/daed/mathhammer 
   
Made in be
Monstrous Master Moulder






looking at how the current SM codex looks, mixed armies can still be a thing, while keeping any army wide rules.

In the marine codex, you unlock all the chapter tactics, strategems, warlord traits and relics IF:

- your whole army is battleforged.

- There is one detachment in the army that is pure space marines from one of the codex compliant chapters. (there is a paragraph that says that none of those special rules can be used by none-codex marines like BA, SW, GKs, DW,...)



I think the GK codex will be very similar. If you have one "GK only" detachment, you unlock all the goodies. But all the other imperial stuff will need to fit into a seperate detachment (and that can be generic imperial).

The boy, I say, the boy is as sharp as a sack of wet mice... 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






If you have a pure SM detachment, and then a detachment that has, let's say, guardsmen and more Space Marines... do the Space Marines in the second detachment get the benefit of the bonus rules?

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame

And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming
And make YouTube videos for that sometimes!
https://www.youtube.com/@tableitgaming 
   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver




London UK

Rihgu wrote:
If you have a pure SM detachment, and then a detachment that has, let's say, guardsmen and more Space Marines... do the Space Marines in the second detachment get the benefit of the bonus rules?


Yes as abilities are currently generated off keywords. If the new marines dex has new detachment specific rules then maybe not but if its abilities that use keywords then it doesn't matter what detachment
   
Made in fr
Been Around the Block




Hi, what do you think of this list? (inspired from Youne)

Kaldor Draigo (gate + hammerhand)

Stormraven (AC, Melta, HB)
- Purifier (Psilencer, falchions)
- Purifier (Psilencer, falchions)
- Venerable Dreadnought - Melta, CCW with SB

Stormraven (AC, Melta, HB)
- Purifier (Psilencer, falchions)
- Purifier (Psilencer, falchions)
- Venerable Dreadnought - Melta, CCW with SB

Dreadknight - Gatling psilencer + fists + (Gate)

   
Made in be
Monstrous Master Moulder






Rihgu wrote:
If you have a pure SM detachment, and then a detachment that has, let's say, guardsmen and more Space Marines... do the Space Marines in the second detachment get the benefit of the bonus rules?


As it's worded in the codex: I would say no to chapter tactics/defenders of humanity, but yes to access to strategems.

It's worded as such in C: SM

"In this section you'll find rules for battle-forged armies that include SM detachments - That is, any detachment which only includes space marine units (as defined below - UM, IF, Sal, WS, RG,IH, CF, IF or BT). A space marine detachment is therefor one which only includes units with one of these keywords."

It then goes on to say:

Space Marine DETACHMENTS gain the following abilties:

- Defenders of humanity
- Chapter Tactics


So units that are then in generic Imperial detachments would not get these 2 rules.

However, there appears to be no such limitations for strategems worded in the codex. It just says that you have access to the strategems if you have a battle-forged army with a SM detachment as defined above. Mind you, it does mention that none-codex compliant Adeptus Astartes (only 2 examples are given: BA and SW, but one can assume this includes DA, GK and DW) can never benefit from the rules in the section 'Sons of the Primarchs" (all the rules like Defenders of humanity, chapter tactics, strategems, relics, warlord traits).

So I hope this clears it up somewhat.


The boy, I say, the boy is as sharp as a sack of wet mice... 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






 Elmir wrote:
Rihgu wrote:
If you have a pure SM detachment, and then a detachment that has, let's say, guardsmen and more Space Marines... do the Space Marines in the second detachment get the benefit of the bonus rules?


As it's worded in the codex: I would say no to chapter tactics/defenders of humanity, but yes to access to strategems.

It's worded as such in C: SM

"In this section you'll find rules for battle-forged armies that include SM detachments - That is, any detachment which only includes space marine units (as defined below - UM, IF, Sal, WS, RG,IH, CF, IF or BT). A space marine detachment is therefor one which only includes units with one of these keywords."

It then goes on to say:

Space Marine DETACHMENTS gain the following abilties:

- Defenders of humanity
- Chapter Tactics


So units that are then in generic Imperial detachments would not get these 2 rules.

However, there appears to be no such limitations for strategems worded in the codex. It just says that you have access to the strategems if you have a battle-forged army with a SM detachment as defined above. Mind you, it does mention that none-codex compliant Adeptus Astartes (only 2 examples are given: BA and SW, but one can assume this includes DA, GK and DW) can never benefit from the rules in the section 'Sons of the Primarchs" (all the rules like Defenders of humanity, chapter tactics, strategems, relics, warlord traits).

So I hope this clears it up somewhat.


It clears it up a bit. I guess I'll have to wait until I can get my mitts on a codex. Hopefully Grey Knights get it in the next few weeks

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame

And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming
And make YouTube videos for that sometimes!
https://www.youtube.com/@tableitgaming 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Per a leak, apparently we can take a Grandmaster in a Dreadknight soon. That's going to be...neat.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Per a leak, apparently we can take a Grandmaster in a Dreadknight soon. That's going to be...neat.


Do you have a link to this leak? That sounds utterly boss (and I have to be pretty excited to use retro slang).
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Audustum wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Per a leak, apparently we can take a Grandmaster in a Dreadknight soon. That's going to be...neat.


Do you have a link to this leak? That sounds utterly boss (and I have to be pretty excited to use retro slang).

It's in the Grey Knight codex thread in the Rumors/News subforum. I'd provide the link but I'm mostly on my phone when on this website so...

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Per a leak, apparently we can take a Grandmaster in a Dreadknight soon. That's going to be...neat.


Do you have a link to this leak? That sounds utterly boss (and I have to be pretty excited to use retro slang).

It's in the Grey Knight codex thread in the Rumors/News subforum. I'd provide the link but I'm mostly on my phone when on this website so...


Oh, I was just over there and didn't see it. Thanks!
   
Made in us
Terrifying Wraith






Yea Grand Master in a dreadknight seems pretty crazy I wonder what boosts it will provide though.

Should be interesting!

 
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Sunshine Coast

Since there can only be 8 GM Dreadknights in the entire universe I have dibs on getting to have one of them for my army
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

So, i just played a 2000 point tournament and came in 2nd. wanted to share my list, and get c&c, and maybe answer questions if anyone is interested.

Hq: Kaldor Draigo, purge, gate, storm of fire
Hq: Celestine, no superia

fa: interceptors x5; storm bolters + falchions; Hammerhand
fa: interceptors x5; storm bolters + falcions, 1x stave; Gate

troop: terminators x5; storm bolters, falchions, 1x stave; hammerhand

heavy: purgation x5; psilencers, stave; gate
heavy: purgation x5; incinerators, stave; gate
heavy: nemesis dreadknight; psilencer, heavy psy, daemon hammer, teleporter; gate

flyer: raven x2 /w melta, assault cannon, hurricanes

Draigo and the Ravens have their obvious uses. So i'll focus on how the other things performed.

The incinerators are very good. I ran into a list with multiple Culexis assassins. You need incinerators or flamers here, because they can only be hit on 6's. When you incinerate them for 14 auto-hits, which wound on 3s, it works well. In retrospect, I will continue to run them as a squad of purgators. Being able to drop them out of a ship and incinerate proved invaluable in 2 games.

Psilencers are good, especially against people who bring multi-wound models that fall in the 3-7 toughness range. (Eldar, i'm looking at you). Volume of shots alone, you'll be getting some wounds in. I'm not convinced that i'll keep them as a heavy choice. I may split this into 2x strike squads /w 2x psilencers (10 mans). I found that having them as a pure gun platform was nice, but they didn't contribute as my opponents were well versed in what they do, and either (a) targeted them or (b) maneuvered around them. They also depend on gate with this list and i failed it in 1 game which crippled their alpha.

The nemesis dreadknight looks like he's overcosted garbage in this list, but he's so durable. He only died in 1 game, and that was because i hurried to give my opponent another turn (which, ultimately, cost me the game, #niceguyproblems). You can drop this monster into the thick of combat and just gak on things like nobodies business. With the greathammer if you put it near tanks, it demands a response. And it's not easy to respond to a 12 wound, 2+/5++ big fat monster, that can gate itself out of a tarpit. And 18 overwatch dice, you expect to deal some hits, too. I like this guy more and more as i keep playing him. He's never MVP, but he's a really solid body on the table, and people are scared of him. He changes the game, every time, in my favor.

For 150 points Celestine is absolute cheese and i feel like a genuine "that guy" for bringing her. I'll just leave this here. If someone charges Celestine, or she heroic pile ins, she will get 18 attacks before the attacker can respond - 6 from her attacks, 6 from act of cheese, 6 from her normal activation. That's stupid - i don't know what else to say about it. I use this model and i think it should be nerfed massively, I just don't feel good beating people with it. She did 12 wounds to a wraithknight in the span of 1 game turn. That's not even fair.

Interceptors are surprisingly solid in maelstrom games, they have a 12" move, and can make a 1 time per game deep strike. 2 squads of 5 will spit out 40 boltgun dice, and with the falchions the squads have 11 melee attacks each, with an ap-2 d3 damage. Not shabby. Their true value lies in their mobility. In eternal war it's not super useful. but they shine in maelstrom.

Terminators are like my shock troops. Everyone seems them and immediately responds. They're a decent gun platform with 20 storm bolter dice, and also, 15 attacks from 5 models, when hammerhanded, means they're wounding t5-7 on 4's, and doing d3 damage per hit. The warding stave does help. These guys die in basically every game. But, it's not trivial to remove them. In one game they got charged and actually slaughtered the opposition, with the help of a Draigo pile in. But, this was also because my opponent rolled rather poorly. All in all, I like these, and I plan on keeping them in the hopes of getting a battalion.

Storm of fire was the perfect warlord trait for Draigo. He gives a basic bitch rend on wound rolls of 6 to all Grey Knights within 6". Well we puke out storm bolter shots like it's going out of style. Giving them some rend is wicked sick.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




Storm of fire was the perfect warlord trait for Draigo. He gives a basic bitch rend on wound rolls of 6 to all Grey Knights within 6". Well we puke out storm bolter shots like it's going out of style. Giving them some rend is wicked sick.


Draigo has no chapter keyword, so Storm of fire does absolutely nothing on him.
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

Seizeman wrote:
Storm of fire was the perfect warlord trait for Draigo. He gives a basic bitch rend on wound rolls of 6 to all Grey Knights within 6". Well we puke out storm bolter shots like it's going out of style. Giving them some rend is wicked sick.


Draigo has no chapter keyword, so Storm of fire does absolutely nothing on him.


Grey Knights replace <chapter> with Grey Knights. It was ruled I could do it so i did.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
 
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