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Yaknow, I take back slightly bit what I said on the spell being trash.

There is ONE theoretical scenario where it's not.

If rubric/scarab can cast it, and its exempt from the rule of one.

If, and only if, this is the case, the spell is actually not junk.

I really, really don't understand the apparent design philosophy behind some of these rumored Thousand Sons rules. Manipulating Deny the Witch rolls is just too situational; these rules are absolutely worthless against armies that can't DtW.

The design philosophy for the Sons should revolve around (1) allowing them to more reliably cast psychic powers, and (2) reducing the danger to them of casting psychic powers. For Sons players, psychic powers should work less like a "risk/reward" system and more like standard, reliable shooting attacks (albeit limited by the Rule of One). With those goals in mind, just give Sons straight-up bonuses to casting rolls (which, incidentally, builds in defenses against DtW where that's applicable) and give them defenses against Perils of the Warp. Maybe a Stratagem or Relic that allows the player, in one round per game, to ignore the Rule of One in Matched Play. The leaked Stratagem sort of works under this philosophy, except that (1) it requires the player to use up precious, precious CPs, and (2) it requires units in what is usually a very small army, model-count wise, to stay bunched up, greatly reducing the player's tactical capabilities.

A preview video (that was taken down because it went through the entire book page by page lol) confirms that the leaks are what we're getting and the leaks are all we're getting. We might as well have gotten a blank page. At least Magnus didn't get nerfed I guess.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
A preview video (that was taken down because it went through the entire book page by page lol) confirms that the leaks are what we're getting and the leaks are all we're getting. We might as well have gotten a blank page. At least Magnus didn't get nerfed I guess.

Bummer because anyone who refuses to bring a primarch is getting shafted again.

What would you guys like to see if there were properly fleshed out TS rules? I would personally like some way to represent the different TS cults, maybe psychic powers reflective of each

I’m curious what our warlord trait will be, but in a way I think this means we will get the death guard treatment with a few extra units.

At least the stratagem is ok. The rest is complete garbage

One of the preview videos is back up (audio only), for those that haven't found it already. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L32YTGfBcA

For fleshed out TS rules, simply for an allegiance rule, I'd like to see: Reroll dice rolls of 1 on Psychic and Deny the Witch tests. This would be reliability, insulation from Perils, and not quite as powerful as an army wide +1 to psychic and DTW rolls.
A second Warlord Relic option: Your warlord knows one additional psychic power, and may cast one additional psychic power per turn.
3rd Relic: Your warlord gains an additional 9 inches when casting Smite. Matched Play only: In addition, your warlord is may cast Smite one additional time per turn (max 2 times).

Change of the leaked stratagem: Increase the range that psychic units must be to 9 inches (this is Tzeentch we're talking about after all).
Strategem: Predicted Arrival: (2 cp) A single unit within 9 inches of another friendly psychic unit, may fire on a newly arrived unit within line of sight and range, that arrives after the start of the first battle round. Eldar have a very similar stratagem, but it is restricted to the warlord, for 1 cp. Figure changing it to a friendly psychic unit (which TS have to spare) would be offset enough by the increased cost.

Spell: Tzeentch's Warpflame: test of 7. Pick a friendly TS unit with flamer weapons. During the next shooting phase, if all flamer weapons are targeted at the same unit, that unit must subtract 1 from it's invulnerable save roll.

What is everyone using for long range support? Are you using FW or just allying in some oblits and havocs? And if so what legion are you using for allies?

demontalons wrote:
What is everyone using for long range support? Are you using FW or just allying in some oblits and havocs? And if so what legion are you using for allies?

Alpha Legion Obliterators supported by the Changeling are -2 to hit and brutal anti-tank. For an in-house option dakka helbrutes are pretty good firepower but seem to fall over to a stiff breeze.

Oh right, and the Fire Raptor is 60 points cheaper in Chapter Approved so it went from "pretty good" to "crazy good".

Empyric Channeling: 1 CP, used at the start of the psychic phase if a Blood Angels Psyker is within 6″ of at least 2 other Blood Angels Psykers. The Psyker can immediately attempt to manifest one additional power and when he does so, adds +2 to the test.

So apparently Blood Angels get this. It's just... Cabalistic Focus but way better. If we could use Cabalistic Focus to let Magnus cast all four of his powers I'd be much more excited about it, I can tell you that much.

It's the same thing SM has.
You didn't notice?


I assume the difference is because how much easier it is for us to have three psykers around, given that rubric and scarab counts.

Considering running my heresy tsons armoured company as a 8th ed list. Any thought?


++ Battalion Detachment (Chaos - Daemons) ++

+ HQ +

The Changeling: Treason of Tzeentch

+ Troops +

Horrors: Blue Horror, 9x Pair of Brimstone Horrors

Horrors: 8x Blue Horror, 2x Pink Horror

Horrors: Blue Horror, 9x Pair of Brimstone Horrors

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) ++

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince with Wings: Malefic talon, Prescience

+ Heavy Support +

Chaos Predator: Predator autocannon
. Two heavy bolters: 2x Heavy bolter

Chaos Predator: Predator autocannon
. Two heavy bolters: 2x Heavy bolter

Chaos Predator: Predator autocannon
. Two heavy bolters: 2x Heavy bolter

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) ++

+ HQ +

Sorcerer with Jump Pack: Bolt pistol, Death Hex, Diabolic Strength, Force axe

+ Heavy Support +

Chaos Predator: Predator autocannon
. Two lascannons: 2x Lascannon

Chaos Predator: Predator autocannon
. Two lascannons: 2x Lascannon

Chaos Predator: Predator autocannon
. Two lascannons: 2x Lascannon

++ Spearhead Detachment (Chaos - FW Heretic Astartes) ++

+ Flyer +

Chaos Fire Raptor Assault Gunship: Hellstrike missiles
. Reaper batteries: 2x Reaper battery

++ Patrol Detachment (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Alpha Legion

+ HQ +

Sorcerer: Bolt pistol, Eye of Tzeentch, Force axe, Mark of Tzeentch, Warptime, Weaver of Fates

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Tzeentch
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

++ Total: [118 PL, 1998pts] ++

I don't see anything thousand sons in this list.

I might be remembering the requirements incorrectly, but I believe you need 2 HQ for the Battalion detachments. So both your Daemon and the TS Battalion would need to be reworked. In addition, that TS detachment would be another Spearhead (unless I'm reading it wrong).

Tuluth wrote:
I might be remembering the requirements incorrectly, but I believe you need 2 HQ for the Battalion detachments. So both your Daemon and the TS Battalion would need to be reworked. In addition, that TS detachment would be another Spearhead (unless I'm reading it wrong).

Nah it's come out wierd, it's one battalion detachment of two halves, mixed daemons and Tsons.

Yeah after cutting Ahriman and the exalted it's .. really not very thousand sonsy. Well the DP will have the warlord trait and relic? Lol.

Just checking: does Cabalistic focus bring the result that triggers Magnus’s 2D6 smite up a further 2, in addition to his own bonus to cast? i.e. Magnus would have +4 to cast, triggering super-smite on a 7?

Yep

Does Renegade Knight work well in TS + Magnus list?

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Yep

That’s pretty damn good then. Especially with a re-roll if needed

I mean, you are investing in two pricey psykers to stand near Magnus not doing much, plus CP which you won't have much of.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
I mean, you are investing in two pricey psykers to stand near Magnus not doing much, plus CP which you won't have much of.

Or two aspiring sorcerors.

So after getting my ass handed to me again (this time by an Alaitoc Craftworld army) I'm seriously at a loss as to what to do with my Thousand Sons. I'd like to know what's working for other Sons players because nothing seems to work for me. Or do I just accept that this army sucks and wait for the codex to hopefully fix it?

 Arachnofiend wrote:
So after getting my ass handed to me again (this time by an Alaitoc Craftworld army) I'm seriously at a loss as to what to do with my Thousand Sons. I'd like to know what's working for other Sons players because nothing seems to work for me. Or do I just accept that this army sucks and wait for the codex to hopefully fix it?

I stopped taking mine as tsons personally. They are now a renegade legion of tsons. I have been teaming mine up with deamons as well to use as chaff with good results. The Tsons make good fire Support and the deamons really give the numbers for cheaper that the Tsons need. Out of the last 3 games I have played against nids with this combo I have won one and lost 2, which is one more win than I have gotten with my pure tsons since 8th.

Here is hoping the codex does to us what it did for deathguard and we don't get what Grey knights got.

I hope the Thousand Sons Codex gives the Rubric marine either a boost or a price decrease. After playing against them for maybe about 20 games. I feel they are just a tad overcosted. I'd like to see them either have full psykers for their sargents or a discount on just the footsloggers.

Or maybe their psyker powers will make their troops more hardy (like the one that grants an additional +1 to saves)

I mean considering Plague Marines are 17 points now and Rubrics are strictly worse than Plague Marines they're definitely overcosted.

the_scotsman wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
I mean, you are investing in two pricey psykers to stand near Magnus not doing much, plus CP which you won't have much of.

Or two aspiring sorcerors.

Lol they are still pricy psykers, and just as unlikely to keep up with Magnus. But yeah that's easier than keeping HQs close.. deepstrike some scarab occult in to form a shieldwall. Could work...

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I mean considering Plague Marines are 17 points now and Rubrics are strictly worse than Plague Marines they're definitely overcosted.

How are rubrics "strictly worse"?

Plagues are more durable, but rubrics are more killy.

The 17 points for a plague marine and 18 for a rubric is before factoring in whatever weapon they're carrying so I'm just looking at the body there, and the plague marine body is clearly superior to the rubric's.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
The 17 points for a plague marine and 18 for a rubric is before factoring in whatever weapon they're carrying so I'm just looking at the body there, and the plague marine body is clearly superior to the rubric's.

Arent you just trading All is Dust +an invuln save for Disgustingly Resilient?

How is DR superior? On a single wound model its not amazing.

Also, pricing is not *just* the body. It's the body plus the baseline weapon. GW generally allows basic weapons to be included in the base cost to avoid unnecessary math. For instance, the Manticore body is identical to the chimera body but *for some reason* 50 odd points more, and the manticore weapon is *for some reason* 0 points.

Rubric pricing is just the body. The Inferno Bolter is another 2 points (I think) on top.

So a Plague Marine with all its weapons is 17 points. A Rubric Marine with no weapons at all is 18, and with it's trademark Inferno Boltgun 20 points.

Also, all is dust is way worse than DR. DR gives you a save no matter what. Even against smite. On top of your regular and/or invuln save.