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Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I made some painting progress on my earthshakers. I am still nervous that judges will accept.

https://imgur.com/gallery/diWJs

EDIT:

If this big phone call goes well today. I am gonna go out and buy two more dragoons and run this at Socal. I think this is as optimized as I can get it. This gives me an explosive melee option from the 4 dragoon bomb. Non-LOS shooting. A good amount of anti-T8 firepower. And the MSU killing power of Celestine (I have used her before, he power is in killing small squads and tanking lascannons on her geminae). I am vulnerable to the secondary missions of "Kill characters" and "Kingslayer" on celestine. But wounds on the geminae don't count towards Kingslayer if you name celestine. And killing my 5x guard characters requires getting through the robots and artillery, which at that point I am tabled anyways.

MARS
Cawl / 5xDakkabots / 2xNeutrons / 1x4 Dragoons

IMPERIUM
Celestrine + 1xGeminae / 2x Astropath / 1x Commisar

CADIA
CCommander (5+/5+) / MasterOrdinance (optional CADIA relic) / 3x1 Earthshaker / 1x30 conscripts

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/19 16:55:30


 
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

gendoikari87 wrote:
That is a good point why not take a pair of stormshard mortars ?
I've never heard of that unit?

ph34r's forgeworld Phobos blog
+From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





WA

 ph34r wrote:
gendoikari87 wrote:
That is a good point why not take a pair of stormshard mortars ?
I've never heard of that unit?


It is what the Wyvern has. No idea why he weirdly referred to it as that.

   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






gendoikari87 wrote:

hmmm I remember suggesting something like this back when we had that huge discussion on dragoons. Noticing a lack of dragoons and heavy use of conscripts like I suggested

Totally different use cases. Conscripts are superior for defending Earthshakers because they are incapable of moving, so you can just castle around them. Conscripts are much better at this. Dragoons are something you want way out there to intercept enemies in fighting before they reach you.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
gendoikari87 wrote:
Did eathshakers get nerfed to ap -1? Wtf? I heard the got buffed to ap -3


Basilisks are -3 now. Earthshakers are -2 until an Errata fixes it. At that point, I expect a price hike too.

They should all be AP -1 with that range and no need for LOS. That or they should always require a crew to bring the price up to something reasonable. But yeah, if these things stay un-nerfed for another FAQ, I might even consider them.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

It is what the Wyvern has. No idea why he weirdly referred to it as that.

Yeah, I was confused too. The only reason why we call the Earthshaker Carriage Battery "Earthshakers" is because they are literally just the guns.
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

Wulfey wrote:
I made some painting progress on my earthshakers. I am still nervous that judges will accept.

https://imgur.com/gallery/diWJs
Those look more than acceptable to me. The base helps a lot, looks good.

ph34r's forgeworld Phobos blog
+From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




FW rep had a Q&A on Warhammer TV today, going through it now for any FoC news
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





WA

Jackal444 wrote:
FW rep had a Q&A on Warhammer TV today, going through it now for any FoC news


They confirmed it for next year. I watched live and they even answered my question about House Vyronii decals (also next year). Check the FW N&R for pics of the new Red Scorpion stuff and other tidbits I posted.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/19 20:37:29


   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Thanks em

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/19 20:40:19


 
   
Made in de
Enginseer with a Wrench






Hey there, I'm considering to start with AdMech, but I got some questions.

First of all I am not playing ultra competitive, I just wanna have a fair chance.
So for units I would like to field:
- sniper ranger
- some 5-10 man vanguard squads for the frontline duty
- Dragoons (absolutely my favourite model)
- Dunecrawler
- Infiltrators / Rusts talkers
- maybe some robots / kataphrons

1) Is this composition even viable or utter trash?
2) which forgeworld do you recommend? I was thinking about Graia or Stygies.
3) Shall I even bother with Robots without playing mars? If yes, what is a good unit size for them?
4) Is running a Brigade detachment at 2k points even realistic or shall I lean more towards 2x Batallion?
5) Whats your take on Destroyer / Breacher? Shall I take some to assist my advancing vanguard or should I just take more dudes?

Thanks in advance!
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

 lash92 wrote:
Hey there, I'm considering to start with AdMech, but I got some questions.

First of all I am not playing ultra competitive, I just wanna have a fair chance.
So for units I would like to field:
- sniper ranger
- some 5-10 man vanguard squads for the frontline duty
- Dragoons (absolutely my favourite model)
- Dunecrawler
- Infiltrators / Rusts talkers
- maybe some robots / kataphrons

1) Is this composition even viable or utter trash?


Dunecralwers, Kastelans, and Dragoons are the only good units in the faction. There are other units that may be functional, but they will be sub-optimal or worse.

Kataphrons are trash, Infiltrators and Ruststalkers are trash. Rangers are usable, but sub-optimal, as are vanguard.

2) which forgeworld do you recommend? I was thinking about Graia or Stygies.


Stygies and Mars are the only competitively viable Forgeworlds, and Mars is only so if Cawl is present (even then, you should limit the presence of Mars detachments solely to units that will be benefiting from Cawl's aura).

3) Shall I even bother with Robots without playing mars? If yes, what is a good unit size for them?


Kastelans benefit hugely from Cawl, and you suffer a lot for running them without him. If you won't consider running a separate Mars detachment for them, they can still be usable under Stygies, but they certainly won't be as efficient. I don't run them myself, but units of 3 sound at least solid.

4) Is running a Brigade detachment at 2k points even realistic or shall I lean more towards 2x Batallion?


Both require you to stack up on large amounts of units that are mediocre at best. Brigade is especially nebulous because nothing even remotely good comes from Admech's elites section. I'm not a fan of the Batallion loadout either, since it requires you to load up pretty heavily on our poor HQ options, and you're still spending a sizeable amount on mediocre troops. A single Stygies Brigade detachment run with a skeleton crew for its bare requirements, mixed with a Cawlstare Spearhead be the best option for your points/command point ratio, assuming you intend on sticking with full Admech.

5) Whats your take on Destroyer / Breacher? Shall I take some to assist my advancing vanguard or should I just take more dudes?


Garbage.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/19 21:47:51


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I love my Destroyers. Some of my favorite models. To get them on the table top I took their treads and made them into treads for my earthshakers. Kataphrons just don't have a place in a competitive environment.

However. In ITC getting a 'unit' kill is paramount. So Arc Rifle breachers may have a sort of place in a fluffier list just because when it comes to troops, breachers are point for point fairly tough. Don't expect them to kill anything. But they will force your opponent to shoot them with something serious. And if you get really lucky and your opponent brings a whole lot of T6 vehicles, the arc breachers may be even get their points back in shooting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/19 22:06:02


 
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






Oh really? And you base breachers being tough on what?
Have you done a toughness spreadsheet? Because I have. And even with bolters against rangers (4 str vs 3 tgh), the Rangers are still tougher point per point.

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in us
Pewling Menial




KY, US

Point per point, that is true.

However, needing 3 tac squads worth of bolters to put a wound on the breacher unit vs losing 3.5 rangers is arguably better for a decent number of situations. First blood, for example.

You are also way less likely to have the dice wing badly and lose the whole squad.

   
Made in be
Ghastly Grave Guard





Belgium

 lash92 wrote:
Hey there, I'm considering to start with AdMech, but I got some questions.

First of all I am not playing ultra competitive, I just wanna have a fair chance.
So for units I would like to field:
- sniper ranger
- some 5-10 man vanguard squads for the frontline duty
- Dragoons (absolutely my favourite model)
- Dunecrawler
- Infiltrators / Rusts talkers
- maybe some robots / kataphrons

1) Is this composition even viable or utter trash?
2) which forgeworld do you recommend? I was thinking about Graia or Stygies.
3) Shall I even bother with Robots without playing mars? If yes, what is a good unit size for them?
4) Is running a Brigade detachment at 2k points even realistic or shall I lean more towards 2x Batallion?
5) Whats your take on Destroyer / Breacher? Shall I take some to assist my advancing vanguard or should I just take more dudes?

Thanks in advance!

Hi, and welcome to AdMech ! Beware that this thread is heavily competitive-sided so you'll have most of your advice by competitive players, like Fafnir above who just answered you. If you're playing in a friendly environment, against fluff army lists or at least not WAAC lists you can be really fine playing AdMech with most of the units, because I have. I don't play the competitive players in my area because their lists look silly and I have more fun playing against regular lists, so it's your choice what you want to play against. I'll give advice based on that.

1) - Sniper Rangers are good, at least one min unit with two Arquebuses (and maybe an Omnispex) can do wonders as it's a really polyvalent weapon, just beware they can die easily though, don't really play more than two units of them.
- I love Vanguards, they look really nice and their firepower is not without its uses, just remember they're a anti-horde choice with their base gun so they'll do wonders against T3 weak units like Eldars or especially Tyranids. Don't expect them to bring down monstrous creatures and Terminators, you'll waste their shots. I recommend not going over 7-8 as far as unit size go, it's a nice balance between staying power and morale resistance. Plasma calivers work really well for them, that helps having more target choices. Arc rifles are good weapons too to deal with up to T6 units. As a golden rule try never shooting/assaulting a unit that you can't wound below 5+, use dedicated weaponry against each target.
- Good news for you Dragoons have become solid gold post-codex ! If it's really your favourite model I assume running two 2x Dragoons units shouldn't be a problem in the long term, that's the optimal loadout most of the time. Bigger units benefit better from the Conqueror Doctrina stratagem (which is why they're so awesome now) just because more models are affected by the stratagem, but they become hard to mover around beyond three in a single unit. Radium Jezzails are not worth taking honestly, even in a casual setting they will underperform. So Lances all the way !
- Dunecrawlers are excellent, but only the Neutron Laser and Icarus Array are good weapons. The Beam is just a downgrade of the Neutron Laser while the Phosphor blasters are already best used on your Robots. Lasers are excellent against anything while Icarus is more situational in my opinion, its volume of fire will cause some armies to fear them but against T7 flyers the Laser with a stratagem is just plain better to use (remember to always equip your Dunecrawlers with data-cables, it's way better than smoke launchers as it allows you to have +2 to Hit with the Protector stratagem).
- I love my Infiltrators, I run a single unit with Tasers and they rarely failed me. You just have to use them right against the right targets and they'll do wonders. Having an innate ability to deep-strike makes them really valuable as mobility is a big issue in our army, only helped by some Forge-Worlds like Stygies and Lucius, so you'll be happy to have them pop up wherever you need them to grab an objective and clean the enemy chaff on it.
- Ruststalkers are not really in a good position right now, Fulgurite Priests do their jobs better but suffer from their own ugliness model-wise sadly With their volume of attacks you really have to rely on having 6s to Wound for mortal wounds, rerolling 1s to Hit via the Canticle can be really useful to help them with that. I use mine to assault models with invulnerable saves and they did surprinsingly well on quite a few times.
- Robots are excellent ! Give them full phosphor, plant them somewhere open to have clear firing lines, keep a few units to screen and support them and they'll have a blast shooting off everything less than T7 off the board.
- Kataphrons are really difficult to use well, I wouldn't run thousands of them. One unit with Plasma working with a unit of Kastelan to have the +1 to Hit stratagem can be really good when firing in overcharge, and with Ryza's stratagem they can be really dangerous. Just beware they're not really THAT tough. Breachers I don't recommend, they're just so very specific to use you'll be happy once when it works and then they'll disappoint you forever, you have to build your army around them and to be honest they're not worth it.

2) I play Stygies and really really like it, it helps A LOT to survive the shooting phase and the stratagem to Infiltrate at deployment can prove invaluable with the right units to help gain that range they need. Graia benefits infantry the most, but Stygies benefits all, just in a different manner. I strongly recommend you using Stygies, all depends on the playstyle you want to do with your army.

3) Yes of course, above 1500 pts you should always have one unit. Depending on the style of your list having between 2 and 6 is a good number, above that they're trickier to protect. If you don't want to build your list around full stationary artillery then don't run more than three to free points for your other units.

4) In theory you can run an AdMech Brigade for like 1100 pts but it's utter trash haha You'd be best trying to run a Batallion + other Detachments I believe. But if you can fill the three Fast Attack slots with enough Dragoons why not ? You'll definitely make use of the stratagems, so, maximise those CPs !

5) I explained in 1), They're expensive and not really tough. Just run more dudes save maybe a unit of plasma Destroyers, just have a plan when playing them.

Hope that block of text wasn't too harsh, but at least you have a "casual" opinion. Not that I hate competitive players but in this thread they'll make you dislike your army by saying everything is trash and to ally with Astra Militarum to have them fill 3/4 of your army. It's true to a certain extent, in tournaments, but you're not here to play tournaments as far as I understood so be rational when taking advice and ask yourself what you want to do when you're playing, and select your opponents based on your common interest in the game.

40K: Mechanicus and Drukhari.
AoS: Nighthaunts

My Stygies VIII army in pictures !
My Eversor and Culexus assassins !

 Rolsheen wrote:
Ah yes the mythical world of Cyraxus
Where GW hold an annual bonfire festival to burn the hopes and dreams of all Ad Mech players
 
   
Made in de
Enginseer with a Wrench






 Aaranis wrote:
 lash92 wrote:
Hey there, I'm considering to start with AdMech, but I got some questions.

First of all I am not playing ultra competitive, I just wanna have a fair chance.
So for units I would like to field:
- sniper ranger
- some 5-10 man vanguard squads for the frontline duty
- Dragoons (absolutely my favourite model)
- Dunecrawler
- Infiltrators / Rusts talkers
- maybe some robots / kataphrons

1) Is this composition even viable or utter trash?
2) which forgeworld do you recommend? I was thinking about Graia or Stygies.
3) Shall I even bother with Robots without playing mars? If yes, what is a good unit size for them?
4) Is running a Brigade detachment at 2k points even realistic or shall I lean more towards 2x Batallion?
5) Whats your take on Destroyer / Breacher? Shall I take some to assist my advancing vanguard or should I just take more dudes?

Thanks in advance!

Hi, and welcome to AdMech ! Beware that this thread is heavily competitive-sided so you'll have most of your advice by competitive players, like Fafnir above who just answered you. If you're playing in a friendly environment, against fluff army lists or at least not WAAC lists you can be really fine playing AdMech with most of the units, because I have. I don't play the competitive players in my area because their lists look silly and I have more fun playing against regular lists, so it's your choice what you want to play against. I'll give advice based on that.

1) - Sniper Rangers are good, at least one min unit with two Arquebuses (and maybe an Omnispex) can do wonders as it's a really polyvalent weapon, just beware they can die easily though, don't really play more than two units of them.
- I love Vanguards, they look really nice and their firepower is not without its uses, just remember they're a anti-horde choice with their base gun so they'll do wonders against T3 weak units like Eldars or especially Tyranids. Don't expect them to bring down monstrous creatures and Terminators, you'll waste their shots. I recommend not going over 7-8 as far as unit size go, it's a nice balance between staying power and morale resistance. Plasma calivers work really well for them, that helps having more target choices. Arc rifles are good weapons too to deal with up to T6 units. As a golden rule try never shooting/assaulting a unit that you can't wound below 5+, use dedicated weaponry against each target.
- Good news for you Dragoons have become solid gold post-codex ! If it's really your favourite model I assume running two 2x Dragoons units shouldn't be a problem in the long term, that's the optimal loadout most of the time. Bigger units benefit better from the Conqueror Doctrina stratagem (which is why they're so awesome now) just because more models are affected by the stratagem, but they become hard to mover around beyond three in a single unit. Radium Jezzails are not worth taking honestly, even in a casual setting they will underperform. So Lances all the way !
- Dunecrawlers are excellent, but only the Neutron Laser and Icarus Array are good weapons. The Beam is just a downgrade of the Neutron Laser while the Phosphor blasters are already best used on your Robots. Lasers are excellent against anything while Icarus is more situational in my opinion, its volume of fire will cause some armies to fear them but against T7 flyers the Laser with a stratagem is just plain better to use (remember to always equip your Dunecrawlers with data-cables, it's way better than smoke launchers as it allows you to have +2 to Hit with the Protector stratagem).
- I love my Infiltrators, I run a single unit with Tasers and they rarely failed me. You just have to use them right against the right targets and they'll do wonders. Having an innate ability to deep-strike makes them really valuable as mobility is a big issue in our army, only helped by some Forge-Worlds like Stygies and Lucius, so you'll be happy to have them pop up wherever you need them to grab an objective and clean the enemy chaff on it.
- Ruststalkers are not really in a good position right now, Fulgurite Priests do their jobs better but suffer from their own ugliness model-wise sadly With their volume of attacks you really have to rely on having 6s to Wound for mortal wounds, rerolling 1s to Hit via the Canticle can be really useful to help them with that. I use mine to assault models with invulnerable saves and they did surprinsingly well on quite a few times.
- Robots are excellent ! Give them full phosphor, plant them somewhere open to have clear firing lines, keep a few units to screen and support them and they'll have a blast shooting off everything less than T7 off the board.
- Kataphrons are really difficult to use well, I wouldn't run thousands of them. One unit with Plasma working with a unit of Kastelan to have the +1 to Hit stratagem can be really good when firing in overcharge, and with Ryza's stratagem they can be really dangerous. Just beware they're not really THAT tough. Breachers I don't recommend, they're just so very specific to use you'll be happy once when it works and then they'll disappoint you forever, you have to build your army around them and to be honest they're not worth it.

2) I play Stygies and really really like it, it helps A LOT to survive the shooting phase and the stratagem to Infiltrate at deployment can prove invaluable with the right units to help gain that range they need. Graia benefits infantry the most, but Stygies benefits all, just in a different manner. I strongly recommend you using Stygies, all depends on the playstyle you want to do with your army.

3) Yes of course, above 1500 pts you should always have one unit. Depending on the style of your list having between 2 and 6 is a good number, above that they're trickier to protect. If you don't want to build your list around full stationary artillery then don't run more than three to free points for your other units.

4) In theory you can run an AdMech Brigade for like 1100 pts but it's utter trash haha You'd be best trying to run a Batallion + other Detachments I believe. But if you can fill the three Fast Attack slots with enough Dragoons why not ? You'll definitely make use of the stratagems, so, maximise those CPs !

5) I explained in 1), They're expensive and not really tough. Just run more dudes save maybe a unit of plasma Destroyers, just have a plan when playing them.

Hope that block of text wasn't too harsh, but at least you have a "casual" opinion. Not that I hate competitive players but in this thread they'll make you dislike your army by saying everything is trash and to ally with Astra Militarum to have them fill 3/4 of your army. It's true to a certain extent, in tournaments, but you're not here to play tournaments as far as I understood so be rational when taking advice and ask yourself what you want to do when you're playing, and select your opponents based on your common interest in the game.


First of all thanks for your input, I really appreciate your afford
Yeah you are right I'm not a tournament guy, I just want to habe a shot against my friends (so I am somewhere in between fluffy and waac)

So I wrote a concept for an list (about 2000 points) to know what I should buy, maybe you could take a look at it?

- 2 Tech-Priest Dominus
- 2 Enginseer
- 4 × 8 men vanguard squad
- Infiltrators
- 4x Dragoon
- 3 x onager dunecrawler

Alternatively I could swap out a dunecrawler and 2 Dragoons for a Datasmith and 3 Kastelens.
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Iago40k wrote:
hmm about those earthshakers. If one wants to take artillery, are they really the best bet? Is high strenght low number of shots what we need as artillery? What are their primary targets other weapons from AdMech cant kill?


The major benefit is their cost-to-firepower ration. They are a steal (and that makes me worry about a future Errata, for sure).

Being able to roll two dice and take the highest when firing their d6 shots makes them very good. It goes from low shots to moderate shots regularly. With 3-4 of them, you have 4d6 shots at S9 -2 d3 damage. That can help us put down anything high toughness (wounding on 2's often) and the d3 damage means we can do 3d3 or 4d3 damage somewhat regularly, which is ~6-8 damage. That isn't bad per gun. Plus, going Cadian you can re-roll hit rolls of 1 if you didn't move previously (lol immobile).

Also, we can do this without line-of-sight, which is a huge boon, as Wulfey said. Our Neutronagers and Wrathbots aren't going to be able to shoot everything, because folks will get behind LoS-blocking terrain - this gives us more firepower on cheap platforms that can hit anything on the table.
but what models are there where you need a neutronager for but the unit can hide from? Thats what i mean. Artillery is great but i dont see why this artillery needs to be earthshakers other than "well its op, thats why." Any targets that earthshakers are good for can already be killed by onagers and wrathbots. I think artillery that is s5 or s6 with more shots to clear out hiding infantry eg dark reapers or oblits would be more effective.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I think that's 6 of one half dozen of the other. Str 9 with multiple damage will clear out hard targets. The stormshard will wipe out infantry. I think a mix is a good idea

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Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





WA

Iago40k wrote:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Iago40k wrote:
hmm about those earthshakers. If one wants to take artillery, are they really the best bet? Is high strenght low number of shots what we need as artillery? What are their primary targets other weapons from AdMech cant kill?


The major benefit is their cost-to-firepower ration. They are a steal (and that makes me worry about a future Errata, for sure).

Being able to roll two dice and take the highest when firing their d6 shots makes them very good. It goes from low shots to moderate shots regularly. With 3-4 of them, you have 4d6 shots at S9 -2 d3 damage. That can help us put down anything high toughness (wounding on 2's often) and the d3 damage means we can do 3d3 or 4d3 damage somewhat regularly, which is ~6-8 damage. That isn't bad per gun. Plus, going Cadian you can re-roll hit rolls of 1 if you didn't move previously (lol immobile).

Also, we can do this without line-of-sight, which is a huge boon, as Wulfey said. Our Neutronagers and Wrathbots aren't going to be able to shoot everything, because folks will get behind LoS-blocking terrain - this gives us more firepower on cheap platforms that can hit anything on the table.
but what models are there where you need a neutronager for but the unit can hide from? Thats what i mean. Artillery is great but i dont see why this artillery needs to be earthshakers other than "well its op, thats why." Any targets that earthshakers are good for can already be killed by onagers and wrathbots. I think artillery that is s5 or s6 with more shots to clear out hiding infantry eg dark reapers or oblits would be more effective.


Units can hide behind LoS. Being a static gunline, we need the option to strike outside of LoS (especially folks stuck in an ITC environment). Yea, our Neutronagers can handle a lot, but not if you can't get good LoS. Sometimes that is the opponent hiding, sometimes it is bad deployment options and terrain, etc. Also, why not? It brings more guns affordably with the CCCP and Conscripts to help make our army function better (more Wraths, good tarpit).

I rarely see Dark Reapers and when I see Oblits, they aren't hiding. Those I would just smash up with Wrathbots. But a Wave Serpent, Chimera or Crisis Suit tucked behind LoS-blocking terrain? Bingo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
gendoikari87 wrote:
I think that's 6 of one half dozen of the other. Str 9 with multiple damage will clear out hard targets. The stormshard will wipe out infantry. I think a mix is a good idea


Not sure we need a Wyvern. If we did bring one though, it might help against hidden low toughness infantry.

Another option, albeit more expensive, is to take a unit of three Heavy Mortars. This clocks in at 156pt, so 63pt more than a Wyvern. While it throws total one less die overall (4d6 vs 3d6) and doesn't re-roll wounds, it is S6 AP -1 and D3 damage.

I think the Wyvern likely puts out more wounds thanks to the re-rolls, but I am awful at math and haven't crunched the numbers. But gendoikari makes a valid point that having at least one dedicated anti-infantry artillery piece that shoots out of LoS might be very useful.

Edit: One other benefit might be the lack of overkilling. 4d6 shots vs doing 1d6, 1d6 and then 1d6 (as each mortar shoots on its own). You can split that fire out a bit more widely. Not sure that is worth the extra points or whatnot, but its an option.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/20 12:18:06


   
Made in us
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If you need numbers crunched I have a calculator in a spreadsheet here at work

011000100111010101110100001000000110100 100100000011101000110010101101100011011 000010000001111001011011110111010100100 000011101110110010100100000011101110110 010101110010011001010010000001100111011 011110110010001110011001000000110111101 101110011000110110010100100000011000010 110111001100100001000000111011101100101 001000000111001101101000011000010110110 001101100001000000110001001100101001000 000110011101101111011001000111001100100 000011000010110011101100001011010010110 1110  
   
Made in ru
Longtime Dakkanaut



Moscow, Russia

NOTE: I am NOT asking them from a competitive/tournament POV, but from a general viability fun POV.

Since this is supposedly the Horde Edition, has anybody tried this with AdMech? I mean, loading up on Skitarii, Lots and lots of clockwork men.
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





WA

Alcibiades wrote:
NOTE: I am NOT asking them from a competitive/tournament POV, but from a general viability fun POV.

Since this is supposedly the Horde Edition, has anybody tried this with AdMech? I mean, loading up on Skitarii, Lots and lots of clockwork men.


Our low leadership and pricey troop units make it not particularly viable. That is why you see min squads here and usually bare-bones.

   
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Moscow, Russia

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Alcibiades wrote:
NOTE: I am NOT asking them from a competitive/tournament POV, but from a general viability fun POV.

Since this is supposedly the Horde Edition, has anybody tried this with AdMech? I mean, loading up on Skitarii, Lots and lots of clockwork men.


Our low leadership and pricey troop units make it not particularly viable. That is why you see min squads here and usually bare-bones.


You can mitigate that with canticles and data-tethers though (a skitarii unit with an enhanced data tether near a vehicle should have +2 Leadership, no?)..

In any case, I'm going to try it.
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





WA

Alcibiades wrote:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Alcibiades wrote:
NOTE: I am NOT asking them from a competitive/tournament POV, but from a general viability fun POV.

Since this is supposedly the Horde Edition, has anybody tried this with AdMech? I mean, loading up on Skitarii, Lots and lots of clockwork men.


Our low leadership and pricey troop units make it not particularly viable. That is why you see min squads here and usually bare-bones.


You can mitigate that with canticles and data-tethers though (a skitarii unit with an enhanced data tether near a vehicle should have +2 Leadership, no?)..

In any case, I'm going to try it.


EDT only allows you to re-roll failed Morale tests. The BSDT adds +1 and is not cumulative with other vehicles.

But the EDT costs a lot for that perk and yes, the BSDT is useful to get us up to Ld8, we still stand to lose a a couple of guys to most rounds of shooting on average due to morale. Our guys are squishy, even with the 6++.

You can give it a go in a non-competitive environment and see how it goes. Squads of 10 with Calivers coming in via Teleportarium would be pretty gnarly - either with a TPD dropped in nearby to re-roll 1's or Conquerer tossed on them for that +2 to-hit (thanks to the EDT).

EDIT:

And because I am at work and don't like to actually.... work. Here is a theoretical list that shouldn't get steamrolled, has some "optimal" choices, but also goes for the TPD & Plasma Vanguard Teleport. It is like right on the edge of being TFG, but hopefully without max Robot and the fact you are using Lucius, your fellow gamers won't give you too much crap!

I feel like genodikari might like this list.

Spoiler:

Mars Spearhead 1CP

HQ:
Cawl
[250]

Heavy:
(4) Kastelan Robots
Triple Phosphor
[440]

Onager Dunecrawler
Neutron Laser & CHS
[140]

Onager Dunecrawler
Neutron Laser & CHS
[140]

[970]

Lucius Battalion 3CP

HQ:
TPD (Teleport)
[125]

Enginseer
[52]

Troops:
(10) Vanguard (Teleport)
3x Calivers, EDT, Arc Maul
[146]

(10) Vanguard (Teleport)
3x Calivers, EDT
[141]

(10) Vanguard (Teleport)
3x Calivers, EDT
[141]

[605]

Cadian Spearhead 1CP

HQ:
Company Commander
Kurov's Aquila, Grand Strategist
[30]

Elites:
Commissar
Bolt Pistol
[31]

Astropath
[21]

Troops:
(30) Conscripts
[90]

Heavy:
Earthshaker Battery
[80]

Earthshaker Battery
[80]

Wyvern
HB
[93]

[425]

[2000]

8CP - 4 CP to Teleport (earn back 1 on avg)
SO you should have 5 CP starting, ideally after Teleports.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/20 15:07:36


   
Made in us
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They're only +4 T3 though if you go 5 man squads you probably won't have to worry about morale (because they'll all be wiped) . Could try msu that way but this is not the edition for msu.

A full squad deep striking might be useful. I do still like the idea a few pages back of 3 min squads with no special weapons to be a low priority objective grabber. Have to see how that works though


Automatically Appended Next Post:
question for a friend: if you played dark angels and orks. How would you deal with a unit of kastelans 4 to be precise? Running agrapinaa

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/20 16:46:59


011000100111010101110100001000000110100 100100000011101000110010101101100011011 000010000001111001011011110111010100100 000011101110110010100100000011101110110 010101110010011001010010000001100111011 011110110010001110011001000000110111101 101110011000110110010100100000011000010 110111001100100001000000111011101100101 001000000111001101101000011000010110110 001101100001000000110001001100101001000 000110011101101111011001000111001100100 000011000010110011101100001011010010110 1110  
   
Made in ca
Been Around the Block





China

Question: Are people bouncing shots back on 6s on any save roll with the Kastalans? The way I'm reading the rules is you only get the bounce back mortal wound effect on a 6 is if you are specifically using the invulernable saving throw, and not the standard armor saving throw
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





That is correct invuln only

011000100111010101110100001000000110100 100100000011101000110010101101100011011 000010000001111001011011110111010100100 000011101110110010100100000011101110110 010101110010011001010010000001100111011 011110110010001110011001000000110111101 101110011000110110010100100000011000010 110111001100100001000000111011101100101 001000000111001101101000011000010110110 001101100001000000110001001100101001000 000110011101101111011001000111001100100 000011000010110011101100001011010010110 1110  
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

gendoikari87 wrote:
question for a friend: if you played dark angels and orks. How would you deal with a unit of kastelans 4 to be precise? Running agrapinaa
Turn one, aim all your anti tank guns at them. Shoot them with all said guns.

ph34r's forgeworld Phobos blog
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When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Eldar Fire Prisms get Grinding Advance. And -1 to hit at 12". T_T
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Suzuteo wrote:
Eldar Fire Prisms get Grinding Advance. And -1 to hit at 12". T_T


Yeah. I am pretty much retiring after this weekend. If you put 1300 of 2000 points on the table that is admech, and the other guy has fire prisms, you lose. Period.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Oh really? And you base breachers being tough on what?
Have you done a toughness spreadsheet? Because I have. And even with bolters against rangers (4 str vs 3 tgh), the Rangers are still tougher point per point.


Tougher against what? And have you considered points and scoring and morale? The rangers squads can readily feed "kill a unit" to your opponent.

~148 of breachers is 3x3 T5 3+ wounds
~148 of rangers is ~18.5 T3 4+ wounds

Against bolter / lasgun fire the breachers are significantly more durable. Assume both models are in cover from shroudspalm.

Assuming a bolter that hits on a 3+ and has no AP it take 85 bolter shots to drop a breacher.
85*0.67*0.33*0.16 = 3
Versus rangers this will kill 12.6 rangers.
85*0.67*0.67*0.33 = 12.6

Assuming a heavy bolter that hits on a 3+:
27*0.67*0.5*0.33 = 3, 27 HB shots to get a statistical kill on a breacher
27HB shots gets 6 kills on the rangers:
27*0.67*0.67*0.5 = 6

Breachers do seriously fall behind once they start getting shot with lascannons. Or certain damage 3 weapons like the hellstrike missile.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/20 18:36:32


 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Wulfey wrote:
Suzuteo wrote:
Eldar Fire Prisms get Grinding Advance. And -1 to hit at 12". T_T


Yeah. I am pretty much retiring after this weekend. If you put 1300 of 2000 points on the table that is admech, and the other guy has fire prisms, you lose. Period.

If this is going to be a thing, they need to give it to Crawlers or we're just out of luck as a shooting army. Infantry without transports, tanks with half the shots...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/20 19:29:23


 
   
 
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